Poverty causes crime.... and also unemployment?

[the debater]

We've always assumed that high poverty rates correlate with high crime rates. Of course, some people will point to places like West Virginia, a state in America, and they will point out how despite having a lot of poor people, West Virginia still has a very low crime rate. However, as I've been thinking, poverty may not be the whole picture.

In November of 2013, West Virginia had an unemployment rate of 6.1%, which was below the national average: http://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-and-employment/state-unemployment-update.aspx

It also might be interesting to note how West Virginia is vastly rural. That also might help to lower the state's crime rate, since robbing houses would be really impractical in such a rural environment. Likewise, American gangs have traditionally flourished in urban environments, not rural environments. And any race is capable of joining a gang, don't forget the Mafia.

In addition to emphasizing the effect poverty has on crime, we also shouldn't forget about the possible effects of unemployment as well.

[tallguy]

We've always assumed that high poverty rates correlate with high crime rates. Of course, some people will point to places like West Virginia, a state in America, and they will point out how despite having a lot of poor people, West Virginia still has a very low crime rate. However, as I've been thinking, poverty may not be the whole picture.

In November of 2013, West Virginia had an unemployment rate of 6.1%, which was below the national average: http://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-and-employment/state-unemployment-update.aspx

It also might be interesting to note how West Virginia is vastly rural. That also might help to lower the state's crime rate, since robbing houses would be really impractical in such a rural environment. Likewise, American gangs have traditionally flourished in urban environments, not rural environments. And any race is capable of joining a gang, don't forget the Mafia.

In addition to emphasizing the effect poverty has on crime, we also shouldn't forget about the possible effects of unemployment as well.I think poverty, by itself, is only part of the reason behind crime levels. Obviously, if someone is sufficiently poor that they end up needing to steal to eat, then obviously, such levels of poverty are the cause of crime. However, I think crime is the result of an interaction between a number of factors including material poverty and social and material alienation and insecurity.

In fact, I would tentatively suggest social and material alienation/insecurity are the biggest contributory factors. Its why rural poverty, if it is at least a poverty that is stable, coupled with reasonable social-structures to fall back on, may be an explanation for why some places have low crime despite having high levels of material poverty, whilst other places, though being no more materially poor, nevertheless have high levels of crime due to massive insecurity and alienation.

Let me give you a crude comparison of at least part of what I mean:

A person who owns 10 acres of fertile land with a clean river running through it, but who only has an old shed to live in and a mere modicum of tools. But who, nevertheless, has the wherewithal to make his own clothes and grow his own food. He earns little if any money and has no access to credit. But his land is secure. He would, by many definitions, be regarded as being in poverty.

A person who lives in an okay house in a okay area, but who is mortgaged for a large amount on that house. Who earns an okay wage and so is able to service his mortgage plus buy an okay car and go on an okay holiday once a year. But who, nevertheless, is completely screwed if his pay-check doesn't come in next month. He would, by many definitions, not be regarded as being in poverty.

However, I would suggest the second of the above is more at risk of criminal behaviour.

[tuwix]

We've always assumed that high poverty rates correlate with high crime rates. Of course, some people will point to places like West Virginia, a state in America, and they will point out how despite having a lot of poor people, West Virginia still has a very low crime rate. However, as I've been thinking, poverty may not be the whole picture.

In November of 2013, West Virginia had an unemployment rate of 6.1%, which was below the national average: http://www.ncsl.org/research/labor-and-employment/state-unemployment-update.aspx

It also might be interesting to note how West Virginia is vastly rural. That also might help to lower the state's crime rate, since robbing houses would be really impractical in such a rural environment. Likewise, American gangs have traditionally flourished in urban environments, not rural environments. And any race is capable of joining a gang, don't forget the Mafia.

In addition to emphasizing the effect poverty has on crime, we also shouldn't forget about the possible effects of unemployment as well.

Poverty is only an effect f private property. Then private property is cause of crime. Nonetheless not all of crime. Homicides sometimes are motivated by something other than money.

Besides unemployment is rather a cause of poverty than poverty causes an unemployment. From other side, technological development causes that less and less work is needed...

[consuming negativity]

When you're poor in a big city, you can still see the big skyscrapers and generally are more aware that, relatively, you're impoverished and left behind. When you're rural poor, and everybody you know is more or less as broke as you are, and you don't even really encounter wealthy people very much, your expectations on what your standards of living ought to be are radically different. I think people are a lot more willing to put up with bullshit if bullshit is all they know and what they see as normal.

In short, you're right that it's more complicated than just "poverty causes crime".

[Skyhilist]

West Virginia might have a slightly less alienated and atomized populace because the vast majority are white, so they don't have to deal with racial discrimination on top of the exploitation of labor. Also, there might well be a lot of jobs in WV but just have few jobs that pay well due to perhaps having a bad economy or being so reliant on industries like coal mining. Finally, WV is more reactionary than most states, so it might be easier for workers to passively accept shitty jobs not realizing how fucked over they're being. I think all of the combined might be what makes WV have low unemployment yet high poverty (and I think also fairly low crime). It certainly is an anomaly though and more of an exception to most rules than anything else.

[Firebrand]

High crime rates tend to correspond with high inequality rates. You need a place with both poor people with a motive to steal and rich people with something worth stealing.

[natekerills]

I also believe in this. If people have money and work, they wouldn't need to do anything that can make them break their good life.

[RedWaves]

This is a classic case of blaming everything on poor people.

Most crime is driven by money. If you eliminated money, you would get rid of 90% of the crime.

Weather it be motivated by greed or like most true criminals, the fact they don't have a job and desperately need money to live is what drives them to crime. That's why the crime rates are so high among poverty.

Most people in prison are not psychopaths. That's why many times prisoners look like normal people. The problem for them was they weren't psychopathic enough to get out of their crime. That's why corporate billionaires get out of criminal shit, and the drug dealers get double digit sentences just for trying to put food on the table. That's also why most of the 1% can't relate to criminals. They don't understand what it's like to have to do the things wrong just to find a way to live. To them it's a game.


When you're poor in a big city, you can still see the big skyscrapers and generally are more aware that, relatively, you're impoverished and left behind. When you're rural poor, and everybody you know is more or less as broke as you are, and you don't even really encounter wealthy people very much, your expectations on what your standards of living ought to be are radically different. I think people are a lot more willing to put up with bullshit if bullshit is all they know and what they see as normal.
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This is so true.


This is a photo from Jacob Holdt's book American Pictures, it shows junkies shooting up inside a motel room with the nation's capital right through the window.

http://www.american-pictures.com/gallery/usa/pages/usa-00208.htm