Rebellion and Revolution

[red flag over teeside]

It seems to me that many on the left can't see the difference between a rebellion and a revolution. While revolutions come from rebellions not all rebellions lead to revolutions.

[G4b3n]

Any group of people can rebel, that criteria is much more vague. A revolution is the act by which one social class over throws another by physically appropriating the means of production. Revolution can only be achieved by a class with significant revolutionary capacity, i.e, a historically progressive class.

[The Idler]

Part of the problem is the overuse of the word revolution especially by the left. A coup is not a revolution.

[Captain Red]

Revolution means change, don't look at me strange -public enemy

[The Idler]

Revolution means more than just any change.

[Captain Red]

Revolution means more than just any change.
It means a fundamental change in power or in society over a relative short period of time, It doesn't have to mean a proletarian revolution or a revolution caused by a rebellion for instance the industrial revolution had neither

[red flag over teeside]

In refering to the difference between rebellion and revolution I'm trying to clarify when a transformation in the struggle against a goverment occurs. For instance the struggle in Syria began as a struggle against the Assad government mainly over it's repressive policies, neo liberal policies which was leading to ever increasing levels of poverty, unemployment etc. This opposition involved all sectors of society who had been excluded from power and included fractions of the Syrian bourgeoise, middle classes, intelligensia, working class both rural as well as urban. In the course of this struggle it was increasingly militarised but without an independent working class struggle emerging. Since then the struggle has reached a stalemate and is leading to an increasing decomposition of the struggle into warring factions with workers being caught in the crossfire. The Syrian struggle did not and does not look as if it is ging to be transformed into a struggle for political power by the working class.

Lets also not forget that the 1917 October revolution did not start with the Bolshevik party as being in a leading position it only won this through the failures of all of the various pro capitalist parties. However in Germany 1919 the rebellion by the German working class did not transform itself into a revolution rather a counter revolution succeeded which led to the death of not only Rosa Luxemburg, Karl Leibneicht but thousands of German working class militants. The list is from China, Spain, Chile all indicates rebellions on their own are insufficient to ensure a transfer of power to the working class.

Finally I do worry that the working class itself may never achieve the necessary level of both organisation and consciousness that will lead to the overthrowing of capitalism and the establishment of a democratic communist global society.

One point also the industrial revolution was a bourgeoise revolution or I should say the consolidation of Bourgeoise rule and not just a technical achievement.

[The Idler]

It means a fundamental change in power or in society over a relative short period of time, It doesn't have to mean a proletarian revolution or a revolution caused by a rebellion for instance the industrial revolution had neither
So basically you're saying any rebellion depending on the outcome being successful. Was Margaret Thatcher a revolutionary then?

[Captain Red]

So basically you're saying any rebellion depending on the outcome being successful. Was Margaret Thatcher a revolutionary then?
No I'm saying not all revolutions comes from a rebellion, also theres a difference between a revolutionary and a revolution, a revolutionary is someone who wants a revolution Margaret Thatcher was a conservative she did not want a revolution or any form of change she wanted to keep society as it is and not change it, and how was Margaret Thatcher taking over a rebellion?

[The Idler]

I know you're not saying all revolution comes from rebellion, but are you saying any successful rebellion with a fundamental change in power can be a revolution? If so then I'm afraid even Thatcher who won a Conservative parliamentary party rebellion in 1975 would fit those criteria as one thesis has already recently argued
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/margaret-death-of-a-revolutionary/episode-guide