Youth rights: is it a major issue?

[TheWannabeAnarchist]

Is discrimination against young people in our society a current problem? What's your opinion?

[Sinister Intents]

Is discrimination against young people in our society a current problem? What's your opinion?

Yes, I would say it is a very important issue to discuss. When I was younger and in school I was discriminated against for may age and for also being partly autistic, I was considered a "retard" and called that quite frequently.

[Psycho P and the Freight Train]

Discrimination of youths based on them being young? Ehh, I actually don't think so. What are some examples exactly? That they are discouraged from smoking and drinking? I'm not trying to belittle the thread or anything, but honestly I don't see how youths are discriminated against.

[IBleedRed]

I think you have to be very careful with a notion like "ageism". Unlike racism and sexism, where there is no functional difference between the individuals in question, there is a difference between a 6-year-old and a 25-year-old when it comes to general knowledge, life experiences, and "wisdom"

Age discrimination is, of course, unacceptable if we're comparing somebody who's 45 and somebody who's 25, but "youth" usually means under 18 and there's still a lot of development that isn't completed until 20 or the early 20s

[Sinister Intents]

Discrimination of youths based on them being young? Ehh, I actually don't think so. What are some examples exactly? That they are discouraged from smoking and drinking? I'm not trying to belittle the thread or anything, but honestly I don't see how youths are discriminated against.

How about an example being that I'm apparently too young to understand things, so things I say get shrugged of and ignored because apparently I was 'immature' and oh I'm a child I need to be shielded from things that I already know about, oh I'm a sensitive little kid who should be restricted and if I act like a kid and don't want anything to do with school I get fucking medicated because oh I'm that autistic ADD ADHD schizophrenic.

[Psycho P and the Freight Train]

How about an example being that I'm apparently too young to understand things, so things I say get shrugged of and ignored because apparently I was 'immature' and oh I'm a child I need to be shielded from things that I already know about, oh I'm a sensitive little kid who should be restricted and if I act like a kid and don't want anything to do with school I get fucking medicated because oh I'm that autistic ADD ADHD schizophrenic.

That's a good point, and there is certainly a hell of a lot of discrimination against people with autism and ADD when it comes to youths. People are obsessed with getting kids started on medications at a young age and ostracizing them for perceived "disorders" by society. So, good point, you got me on that one.

[TheWannabeAnarchist]

Discrimination of youths based on them being young? Ehh, I actually don't think so. What are some examples exactly?

Well, there are the teen boot camps--brutal, prison like "corrective" facilities where young people are essentially tortured.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Anderson_case (This is the tip of the iceberg.)

Not to mention the constant cases of institutional abuse in private juvenile prisons.

http://projects.huffingtonpost.com/prisoners-of-profit

And the fact that we try teenagers as adults and often incarcerate them for life for breaking laws, all while not considering them "adult" enough to vote for the people who make these laws.

http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2013/08/flint_teen_gets_life_in_prison.html (The U.S. is the only country in the world that still does this openly.)

And the hundreds, possibly thousands of children that have legally been allowed to die because their parents have refused life-saving medical treatment on religious grounds.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/faith-healing-religious-freedom-vs-child-protection/

And, for good measure, I will provide an excerpt from the source above:

One of the first non-Christian-Science-related deaths Rita discovered was in Indiana. As Stauth tells the story,

4-year-old Natali Joy Mudd was found dead by detectives in her own home, with a tumor in her eye that was almost as big as the rest of her head. At the horrific scene, a police sergeant found horizontal trails of blood along the walls of the house. The trails matched the height of the girl’s head. Natali had apparently been leaning against the wall as she dragged herself from room to room, blinded, trying to find a way to freedom, before the tumor killed her.

Natali’s parents belonged to the Faith Assembly Church, a Pentecostal offshoot. They didn’t believe in medical care, and they were not prosecuted because Indiana had strict religious shield laws.

Need any more examples? I have a list that I hang on to; it's very long.:laugh:

[Sinister Intents]

That's a good point, and there is certainly a hell of a lot of discrimination against people with autism and ADD when it comes to youths. People are obsessed with getting kids started on medications at a young age and ostracizing them for perceived "disorders" by society. So, good point, you got me on that one.

Thanks, also youth discrimination is multi faceted is it not? I've seen racism tied into it for example with my last name because I have Polish ancestry and people would turn my last name into a racist slur, my ex claiming all little boys are disgusting perverts who should be castrated or oppressed and kept uneducated about sexuality and related things. Ageism obviously, and several other forms of discrimination correlate to discrimination against youths.

[Psycho P and the Freight Train]

Thanks, also youth discrimination is multi faceted is it not? I've seen racism tied into it for example with my last name because I have Polish ancestry and people would turn my last name into a sexist slur, my ex claiming all little boys are disgusting perverts who should be castrated or oppressed and kept uneducated about sexuality and related things. Ageism obviously, and several other forms of discrimination correlate to discrimination against youths.

Yes this is true. I especially agree that youths are kept uneducated about sexuality. They're told you must be straight, grow up to get married, and never ever have sex because condoms never work. I never thought of it like that.

Also, I have spent an embarrassingly long time trying to figure out how to respond to the visitor message on my profile lol. I cannot figure it out.

[Sinister Intents]

Yes this is true. I especially agree that youths are kept uneducated about sexuality. They're told you must be straight, grow up to get married, and never ever have sex because condoms never work. I never thought of it like that.

Also, I have spent an embarrassingly long time trying to figure out how to respond to the visitor message on my profile lol. I cannot figure it out.

Indeed, schools are just simply tools of the state to train us to be compliant little cogs that keep this bloody machine we call capitalism running. Without creating the bourgeois morality, without creating heteronormativity, destroying critical thinking and creating good little workers, capitalism wouldn't last too long I don't think because the state wouldn't have a major tool to keep us oppressed because we wouldn't normalize this bullshit.

Also If you click the link to my user profile, you can get to my page, and their you can post a VM, alternatively you could post it on your page :)

[Quail]

I think there is something to be said about the way that children are considered to be "property" of their parents and a lot of time parents and other "authority figures" will excise what I would call illegitimate authority over children and young people. Legitimate authority is, for example, when I pick up my son so he doesn't walk into the road and firmly explain why he shouldn't walk in the road. An example of illegitimate authority would be a parent punishing their child for doing something they didn't like as opposed to something which was actually dangerous.

[Psycho P and the Freight Train]

Indeed, schools are just simply tools of the state to train us to be compliant little cogs that keep this bloody machine we call capitalism running. Without creating the bourgeois morality, without creating heteronormativity, destroying critical thinking and creating good little workers, capitalism wouldn't last too long I don't think because the state wouldn't have a major tool to keep us oppressed because we wouldn't normalize this bullshit.

Also If you click the link to my user profile, you can get to my page, and their you can post a VM, alternatively you could post it on your page :)

Yeah it's interesting about the schools because a lot of people don't realize that it's not for teaching you useful subjects, it's for teaching you how to be obedient and submit to authority. I think they actually got it from back in the 1800s when they set up schools to "Westernize" Native Americans.

And thanks, I actually went to your page and could not find where to do that anywhere, lol. I'm bad at navigating profile pages on websites for some reason, but I'll try to post it on mine.

[Marshal of the People]

I am supposed to give my bus seat to adults. I hate it!

[Sinister Intents]

I am supposed to give my bus seat to adults. I hate it!

I've had that happen heading to school when I was little, I argued against it but I was pushed away reletively quickly because of my low body weight and small size

[Ceallach_the_Witch]

I'm not sure if it's a particularly huge issue but I know I certainly felt marginalised as a young person and teenaher in the UK through the 2000s. I've seen a few articles that have suggested that the UK is (generally speaking) a culture which increasingly mistrusts and fears young people and tends to characterise them as criminals. I was overwhelmingly a "good kid" and I was still frequently accused of minor crimes/infractions of some disciplinary code and subject to fairly arbitrary punishments. Punishment at school largely informed me that A: you are guilty until proven innocent B: You are guilty by association if someone you know has done something wrong and C: To challenge authority is to reveal guilt of something.

[Ritzy Cat]

Yeah it's interesting about the schools because a lot of people don't realize that it's not for teaching you useful subjects, it's for teaching you how to be obedient and submit to authority.

I agree with this. I think this is much more apparent in elementary schools and middle schools, however. People by High School are also used to simply adapting to the standards of the school, or they are just rebellious by nature - which the state assumes the police force will take care of later. Regardless it's easier to brainwash younger children. Hitler has proven to be a great model for the Western world.

Middle School for me was very much like jail, very regimented, teachers drew their symbolic batons whenever a kid dissented. Detention for saying a vulgar word. I also went to a Catholic private elementary school. For whatever reason we had a Hindu classmate - on a theology quiz, the question asked "How many gods are there?" He answered 13 or something, and got the question wrong. While the private school wasn't necessarily a product of the state, it seems they also too try to adapt the populace to White Christian Heterosexual families so they can perpetuate their traditionalist views. While of course, he is in fact enrolled at a Catholic school that studies Catholicism, why shouldn't this be considered "oppressing" his religion? Oh, what does it matter. All theist religions are just among the hugest economic scandals ever known in history, anyway. Or something like that.

In high school its much less like this. It's difficult to even participate in discussions in government class or English because I can always push them back to the core of the capitalist state. Questions like "What makes a democracy?" The underlying bourgeois hegemony, corruption, and media influence of voting participants, of course! Then I get a bunch of funny looks... then of course, the teacher proceeds to give a lecture on why democracy is so great! Oh what was I thinking, to dissent from what I'm supposed to be shoving down my throat.

The education system is essentially a surrogate for pushing the ideals of the capitalist state onto the next generation, both public & private. They aren't taught to disagree. The system teaches you what to think. Thankfully, we are able to develop how to think, and here we are, doubting its validity.

[TheWannabeAnarchist]

I think there is something to be said about the way that children are considered to be "property" of their parents and a lot of time parents and other "authority figures" will excise what I would call illegitimate authority over children and young people. Legitimate authority is, for example, when I pick up my son so he doesn't walk into the road and firmly explain why he shouldn't walk in the road. An example of illegitimate authority would be a parent punishing their child for doing something they didn't like as opposed to something which was actually dangerous.

You nailed it right on the head Quail. Kids aren't ready to go out on their own; they need some firm guidance and discipline to learn how to get by in this world. But that doesn't mean society should just turn its head away whenever a parent, teacher, or other custodian of a child is abusive. Beating a ten-year-old with a paddle, for example, is just as bad as beating a twenty-year-old with a paddle, no matter what "parental rights advocates" may say.:rolleyes:

[TheWannabeAnarchist]

I am supposed to give my bus seat to adults. I hate it!

I'll give my bus seat to anyone who is frail or elderly, but not some guy who's barely a decade older than me, purely because of his age. Moderation is the key.

[Marshal of the People]

I'll give my bus seat to anyone who is frail or elderly, but not some guy who's barely a decade older than me, purely because of his age. Moderation is the key.

I am targeted because I am a child! Why can't an adult give up their seat!

[Fourth Internationalist]

Is discrimination against young people in our society a current problem? What's your opinion?

It's a problem, but I don't think it's anywhere near as problematic as sexism or racism. But yes, it exists and as a 15 year-old myself, it's quite annoying to deal with sometimes.

[BIXX]

When it comes to parenting and ageism, I wouldn't even call saving a child from walking in the street an exercise of authority, but rather simply mutual aid. I mean, if your friend who was particularly unobservant was about to walk off of a cliff, you would save them (assuming you could), yes? And I imagine, if you are a good friend, they would expect you to. I don't see that as an excercise of authority, as it is something your friend is expecting you to do. I fail to see how a child running into the street is any different.

I think the problem I have when it comes to ageism is the way our opinions and ideas are looked at like some joke. Even when we are right. and when we are incorrect, we often are assumed to not need (or maybe deserve) the same explanation that older folks need.

[A Psychological Symphony]

Ageism seems to be a superiority thing. I remember teachers literally saying that our opinions were irrelevant because of our age. I wasn't allowed to question an adult because they were adults and I was a child. People need to treat the youth like, well, people.


"The mind of a child is where the revolution begins"

[the debater]

How about an example being that I'm apparently too young to understand things, so things I say get shrugged of and ignored because apparently I was 'immature' and oh I'm a child I need to be shielded from things that I already know about, oh I'm a sensitive little kid who should be restricted and if I act like a kid and don't want anything to do with school I get fucking medicated because oh I'm that autistic ADD ADHD schizophrenic.

I agree with you on the medication part. The big pharmaceutical companies are pretty much bullshit. My parents forced me to take this stupid drug back in high school, and all this drug did was cause me to have severe restless leg syndrome. During the daytime! I had to suffer through senior year of high school sitting in my desk, with an incredible urge to move my legs around and not sit still in all of my classes. :ohmy:

[TheWannabeAnarchist]

I am quite certain that youth rights is not as important as dealing with racism and sexism, and other more violent forms of discrimination, but I do think that the amount of attention the to the topic is outrageously small and needs to change. I'm actually working on a research paper--almost a sort of long pamphlet--that explains the various problems children and adolescents face in the U.S., and how needlessly oppressive treatment of young people hinders social progress.


If anyone's interested in helping, let me know!:)

[Firebrand]

I think that a lot of youth based discrimination (and to a certain extent discrimination against the old as well) is the result of a confusion between the concepts of rights and responsibilities.
They confuse the responsibility of care with the right of control. Yes young kids need supervision to stop them doing things like running into the road, but that doesn't mean they are incapable or don't have the right to make their own decisions. They need to be supervised but that doesn't mean they need to be controlled.
It baffles me how tightly some parents control their kids, to the point where they decide what clothes they want their kid to wear, or what friends their kid can have. Maybe its because they feel so out of control of their own lives that they exert control over their kids as a substitute.
I do know that the amount of trust adults have in children has steadily been falling. It used to be that parents could leave their twelve year old in charge of the baby and not feel any worry that they couldn't handle it, they could let their kids go to the park or walk home from school alone. Now a parent who leaves their kids alone for more than a few minutes is considered irresponsible. Kids are seen as both vulnerable and dangerous. Adults see them as lacking the ability to make responsible decisions making them a danger to both themselves and society. I'm not sure where this lack of trust comes from but it is an interesting phenomenon.

[TheWannabeAnarchist]

The trust issue is indeed a problem. If you google "ten-year-old," your first result is an article about a 10-year-old murderer.:laugh:

[Sabot Cat]

Did you all know that it's perfectly legal for parents to pay corporations to shove them into cars and pepper spray them for resisting (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/culture/articles/950626/archive_010323_6.htm)in order transport them to camps where they go out into the wilderness under the care of people who don't even need credentials? Although someone doesn't have to have any demonstrated problems to be subject to this treatment, this is often used as a 'tough love' approach to mental illness, usually worsening the problem and causing PTSD (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/28/AR2006012800062_2.html).

This is probably because they're subject to "food deprivation, sleep deprivation, public humiliation, beatings, and denial of access to the bathroom to the point where you wet or soil yourself. But I’m also constantly hearing stories of people being forced to re-enact various traumas, like being raped (http://www.vice.com/read/thousands-of-american-teens-are-trapped-in-abusive-cult-like-treatment-centres)”. This abuse and torture (http://www.courthousenews.com/2012/06/27/47850.htm) has also been alleged to have killed hundreds of young people (http://books.google.com/books?id=pTbgu5KguAgC&pg=PA13&lpg=PA13&dq=troubled+teen+residential+100+deaths&source=bl&ots=3PGDKHrlUO&sig=2A759Ts4QxyxKq5hFHG1Mncjlqc&hl=en&sa=X&ei=EsdoUpKVC-rhiALZ7oHwBg&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=troubled%20teen%20residential%20100%20deaths&f=false). 10,000 to 20,000 (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/28/AR2006012800062.html) of them are estimated to be in this abusive system, while bills proposed to address this in the U.S. Congress have all died in committee.

[DOOM]

As a fairly young anarchist a lot of people see down on me as for politics.
They call me edgy and naive for believing in a different system.
I wouldn't compare it to "real" discrimination like racism and the patriarchy, but still, it's really annoying and I can't talk about politics with friends or adults in real life, since they don't take me serious.

[Captain Red]

It depends, If you think young people should vote than no. I live in Sweden and half of my class are either fucking nazis or just plays video games all the time with no recognition of what goes on in the world i am horrified to think that most of them will soon be able to vote

But I also think that the education system is totally fucked up with private schools competing with public schools with the sole intention to make money and they couldn't care less about the children's education and the fact that teacher's have to much power for instance some teachers give me worse grades because I'm a communist or they just sit in a chair and reads whats on a the power point that they borrowed from a colleague and than they complain about getting a low salary

My entire education is controlled bourgeois that's the main problem as I see it

[DOOM]

It depends, If you think young people should vote than no. I live in Sweden and half of my class are either fucking nazis or just plays video games all the time with no recognition of what goes on in the world i am horrified to think that most of them will soon be able to vote

But I also think that the education system is totally fucked up with private schools competing with public schools with the sole intention to make money and they couldn't care less about the children's education and the fact that teacher's have to much power for instance some teachers give me worse grades because I'm a communist or they just sit in a chair and reads whats on a the power point that they borrowed from a collage and than they complain about getting a low salary

My entire education is controlled bourgeois that's the main problem as I see it

Wow really?
I would get mad as fuck

[celticnachos]

It depends, If you think young people should vote than no. I live in Sweden and half of my class are either fucking nazis or just plays video games all the time with no recognition of what goes on in the world i am horrified to think that most of them will soon be able to vote

But I also think that the education system is totally fucked up with private schools competing with public schools with the sole intention to make money and they couldn't care less about the children's education and the fact that teacher's have to much power for instance some teachers give me worse grades because I'm a communist or they just sit in a chair and reads whats on a the power point that they borrowed from a collage and than they complain about getting a low salary

My entire education is controlled bourgeois that's the main problem as I see it

Right on. I don't get taken seriously anymore in my history classes just because I disagree with the notion that "communism is a dictatorship." Our whole education system is geared towards indoctrinating the youth with bourgeois hogwash.

[A Psychological Symphony]

It depends, If you think young people should vote than no. I live in Sweden and half of my class are either fucking nazis or just plays video games all the time with no recognition of what goes on in the world i am horrified to think that most of them will soon be able to vote

But I also think that the education system is totally fucked up with private schools competing with public schools with the sole intention to make money and they couldn't care less about the children's education and the fact that teacher's have to much power for instance some teachers give me worse grades because I'm a communist or they just sit in a chair and reads whats on a the power point that they borrowed from a collage and than they complain about getting a low salary

My entire education is controlled bourgeois that's the main problem as I see it

why shouldn't the youth be able to vote on things that have an effect on them? the same 16 year olds who are Nazis or just sit around and play video games aren't going to magically become interested in politics or current events when they become 18. you're basically reiterating the fact that the youth shouldn't be allowed to have opinions because they are somehow inferior to those a couple years to a decade older than them.

[Captain Red]

why shouldn't the youth be able to vote on things that have an effect on them? the same 16 year olds who are Nazis or just sit around and play video games aren't going to magically become interested in politics or current events when they become 18. you're basically reiterating the fact that the youth shouldn't be allowed to have opinions because they are somehow inferior to those a couple years to a decade older than them.
Usually the youth have more radical opinions it use to be that they where more left but that has now changed, and also allot of those people are probably going to study in Sweden or abroad so they will meet new people and hopefully not go with the flow anymore.

I also now that some young people can be very smart some on this forum for instance are allot smarter than me even though they are younger, but that doesn't change the fact that a vast majority of young people would only vote for what the majority of other people of their age would vote for or just what their parents are voting for but I'm against the whole voting system anyways so I'm only trying to say that I think that allot of young people aren't experienced enough to vote yet and because they are so easily influenced by other things

[guy123]

i can count a couple of ways(for youth under 18):
formal
(1)don't have voting rights
(2)restricted sexual rights
(3)lower minimum wage(in many countries)
(4)have to go to school, and do whatever told they are told there
(5)lacking other rights, such as opening a bank account, etc
non-formal
(6)subject to parent's rules, can sometimes live in abusive households
(7)as well as lack of youth centers, who can help their correct transition to adulthood

[TheWannabeAnarchist]

Don't ask me why I feel so strongly about youth rights; I just do. I suppose we each have different focuses within our movement, and that's a good thing, not a bad thing. I will remain a radical, steadfast, and unbending youth rights advocate till the day that I die.:laugh:

[TheWannabeAnarchist]

i can count a couple of ways(for youth under 18):
formal
(1)don't have voting rights
(2)restricted sexual rights
(3)lower minimum wage(in many countries)
(4)have to go to school, and do whatever told they are told there
(5)lacking other rights, such as opening a bank account, etc
non-formal
(6)subject to parent's rules, can sometimes live in abusive households
(7)as well as lack of youth centers, who can help their correct transition to adulthood

We need to focus on the right to medical treatment, then the boot camps, then the abolition of corporal punishment, then the empowerment of young people to take a part in their own educations, in that order, imho. All of this, within the larger leftist movement, of course.

[TheWannabeAnarchist]

Usually the youth have more radical opinions it use to be that they where more left but that has now changed, and also allot of those people are probably going to study in Sweden or abroad so they will meet new people and hopefully not go with the flow anymore.

I also now that some young people can be very smart some on this forum for instance are allot smarter than me even though they are younger, but that doesn't change the fact that a vast majority of young people would only vote for what the majority of other people of their age would vote for or just what their parents are voting for but I'm against the whole voting system anyways so I'm only trying to say that I think that allot of young people aren't experienced enough to vote yet and because they are so easily influenced by other things

I disagree with that, "allot." How do you measure experience? Different people learn in different ways, at different paces. You can't just type in their birthdate on a computer and get an analysis of their mind. As a society, there are better ways to deal with young people than our current heavyhanded approach, which is to just strip all of them of basic human rights until they reach a magic number. We could have a council-based system in which each individual community or municipality decides when a person has matured enough to be considered "of age," whether that person's 13 or 17. (There would be some variety, but it'd be nearly unheard of for preoubescent children to be emancipated.) In addition, upon reaching a certain age, a person could automatically become a legal adult, with or without the community's approval. It would be a more humane system--a system fit to recognize the individual abilities of every person instead of lumping them into one group.

Meanwhile, we could set about burning the boot camps to the ground, incinerating paddles and whips in bonfires, bulldozing gulag schools in favor of real education, and promptly removing the rights of fanatically religious parents to murder their children for Jesus by denying them medical care.

[Ravn]

i can count a couple of ways(for youth under 18):
formal
(1)don't have voting rights
(2)restricted sexual rights
(3)lower minimum wage(in many countries)
(4)have to go to school, and do whatever told they are told there
(5)lacking other rights, such as opening a bank account, etc
non-formal
(6)subject to parent's rules, can sometimes live in abusive households
(7)as well as lack of youth centers, who can help their correct transition to adulthood
Being required to get an education isn't a problem in itself. It's the quality of ED. is where most kids are getting ripped off. All that other stuff is important too but you need good information to deal with it.

Seems to me that if they're going to try kids as adults for crimes, they might as well get the vote, & they should get the same wage as anybody else. (But they shouldn't be trying kids as adults in the first place.)

No youth should have to put up with domestic violence. But don't expect a free market society to solve these problems.

[Comrade Chernov]

I'm 16.

I haven't changed a bit since I was 14 (with the exception of finding out that I'm pansexual and not straight). Not even height-wise or facial hair-wise or low-voice-wise.

I also can't see my personality changing between now and 18, or 21, either.

In all honesty, I'd very much like it if someone I planned on having sex with wasn't arrested because of my age. I'd like the opportunity to get a job and work so that I can start saving up for college. I'd like to be treated like an adult by the school administration that demands that I act like one.

Nobody knows what it's like to be a teen right now except for teenagers. When someone shits on teenagers because our generation is so awful, they don't realize that we're terrified of what is going to happen in our lives. We all grew up watching Clifford the Big Red Dog and waving the stars and stripes and watching parades and supporting our troops because there was a war against the Evil Middle Eastern Terrorist Scumbag Anti-American Commies or something to that effect. We grew up with the mindset that America was the best country in the world. Just now, due to technology, are we discovering the opinions of others, the cold hard facts about current crises. Gas will be gone in 40 years. Global warming will accelerate to unhealthy levels in 30 years unless everyone stops eating meat. Water will start running low. China and Russia want resources and want to defeat their American adversary in the long run.

It'll be my generation that has to deal with that. It'll be the current teenagers and younger that'll have to clean up the mess that our parents and grandparents created with their reckless imperialist bullshit. All the while, we're being told that we have to be obedient, we have to listen to our elders, we have to live a "normal" life, we have to do good in a biased and broken educational system, get jobs that are scarcely available, settle down with a spouse we may not even be attracted to (or, hell, may even be abusive) for the sake of brainwashing the next generation with more capitalist utopian bullshit, work all our lives to pay off the bills we accumulated from doing everything the government wanted us to do, and then wither away in quiet and solitude while everything goes to hell around us.

So, no, I'd prefer to have more freedoms. In my own opinion, fuck the child labor laws, because I WANT to work. I WANT to be able to get through college without having to have a $50,000 economic deadweight tying me to this shithole of a country. Other people can stay out of work if they want to, I don't care, I want to save up my cash and get out before getting out isn't an option. I'd like to be given encouragement and respect rather than the constant chidings and pressure to do even better than I already might be. And I DON'T want to be some mindless fucking zombie being told to say the Pledge Of Allegiance or be given a detention.

Ageism is definitely a problem.

[Slavic]

I disagree with that, "allot." How do you measure experience? Different people learn in different ways, at different paces. You can't just type in their birthdate on a computer and get an analysis of their mind. As a society, there are better ways to deal with young people than our current heavyhanded approach, which is to just strip all of them of basic human rights until they reach a magic number. We could have a council-based system in which each individual community or municipality decides when a person has matured enough to be considered "of age," whether that person's 13 or 17. (There would be some variety, but it'd be nearly unheard of for preoubescent children to be emancipated.) In addition, upon reaching a certain age, a person could automatically become a legal adult, with or without the community's approval. It would be a more humane system--a system fit to recognize the individual abilities of every person instead of lumping them into one group.

Are you even listening to yourself? Council's to track the mental development of every child. If this isn't Utopianism then I don't know what is.

The reason why there is a "magic number" to determine adulthood is because of the variability of brain development. Since it would be impossible to individual track the mental development of each child a relativly arbitrary age has to be picked to represent adulthood. 18 has been chosen as this age. Personally I think it should be increased a little bit more since human brains typically don't finish developing until the low to mid 20s.

Also at 16 you can work, at least in my state New Jersey. I've been working since I was 14, not all jobs need to be taxed and declared.

@Comrade Chernov

You'd be surprised at how much you can change in just a few short years. I thought the same way when I was in high school. Hell I'm surprised that I changed so much since 21 even.

[Comrade Chernov]

Meh. I've been a leftist since I was 12, I don't think I can really change that much.

[TheWannabeAnarchist]

Quiet Slav, I have more points than you!:laugh: Nah, I'm just kidding, your argument is valid. Now I'll make mine.


Are you even listening to yourself? Council's to track the mental development of every child. If this isn't Utopianism then I don't know what is.This is a gross misrepresentation of my proposal. I was not saying that councils should be set up with the sole purpose of evaluating the maturity of adolescents. I did not intend to make it sound like that. I was proposing that municipal assemblies that represent individual communities, the same assemblies that are tasked woth managing the local economy, distribution centers, schools, and maintaining public order, should be allowed to grant certain privileges to the adolescents who prove to their communities that they are ready for them. This would encourage teens to become more responsible, because they'd have real, material rights dangling in front of their faces as a reward. For example, let's say Robert is 16 years old. Rob's pretty mature for his age; he does hours of volunteer work every week and is a model student, and he has no criminal record. Rob and his family agree that he should be allowed to vote for the recallable delegates in his city's assembly.


So, Rob files a request to be given the right to vote. He'll automatically receive this right no matter what when he turns eighteen, but many younger people try to gain this ability earlier on. After filing this request, the municipal assembly deliberates for a couple hours as a set date. It's a routine procedure that people are totally used to, and many adults throughout the community--teachers, neighbors, leaders of Rob's volunteer group--all show up. They can make their case to the assembly regarding whether he should or shouldn't be granted this privilege.

Eventually, the assembly votes yes or no, and Rob walks home. If they said yes, he's quite happy, but if they said no, instead of spray painting a bathroom and breaking windows like today's teenagers, he'll be asking himself, "what can I do to get them to say yes next time? How can I demonstrate that I'm really a responsible citizen?"

That's one vision, one way my idea could be implemented. I was not advocating for thousands of competing committees to be diligently tracking the activities of every minor in the world.


The reason why there is a "magic number" to determine adulthood is because of the variability of brain development. Since it would be impossible to individual track the mental development of each child a relativly arbitrary age has to be picked to represent adulthood. 18 has been chosen as this age. Personally I think it should be increased a little bit more since human brains typically don't finish developing until the low to mid 20s.You have good intentions, but you're falling into a trap that even the most enlightened, progressive people commonly fall into. You are failing to recognize that the studies claiming brain development does not finish until the mid 20s have been conducted in a society built on discrimination against young people, especially teenagers. "Studies" have always been used by elites to justify oppression of supposedly incompetent groups. In the 19th century, all the latest "studies" "proved" that Africans were essentially retarded. On the website below, you can find a bit of their propaganda:

http://www.pbs.org/fmc/segments/progseg2.htm


Compare it to the snide car insurance commercials of today that state that teens are "missing a chunk of their brain."

These studies are flawed, not nly because of the prejudices of the scientists who conduct them, but also because of the conditions teens are currently facing. If you want to learn the truth about cognitive development of adolescents, google The Myth of the Teen Brain, by Robert Epstein.

As for your personal story, screw that. Anecdotes are not evidence.

Cordially,
L.G.:)

[Slavic]

Explains adulthood tracking

I see more clearly what you were intending and I do like your system.


You have good intentions, but you're falling into a trap that even the most enlightened, progressive people commonly fall into. You are failing to recognize that the studies claiming brain development does not finish until the mid 20s have been conducted in a society built on discrimination against young people, especially teenagers. "Studies" have always been used by elites to justify oppression of supposedly incompetent groups. In the 19th century, all the latest "studies" "proved" that Africans were essentially retarded. On the website below, you can find a bit of their propaganda:
http://www.pbs.org/fmc/segments/progseg2.htm
Compare it to the snide car insurance commercials of today that state that teens are "missing a chunk of their brain."

These studies are flawed, not nly because of the prejudices of the scientists who conduct them, but also because of the conditions teens are currently facing. If you want to learn the truth about cognitive development of adolescents, google The Myth of the Teen Brain, by Robert Epstein.


I honestly can't take any of this seriously. You claim that modern scientists are publishing discriminatory papers, and then proceed to support this notion by telling me to look up another modern scientist. Your just trading one PhD for another PhD because one guy's theory agree with your world view.


As for your personal story, screw that. Anecdotes are not evidence.
Cordially,
L.G.:)
Yes, my personal story is anecdotal, so is the entirety of this thread, its full of nothing but youths posting their discrimination stories. It is entirely anecdotal.

[E-Shock Executioner]

Yes, I would say it is a very important issue to discuss. When I was younger and in school I was discriminated against for may age and for also being partly autistic, I was considered a "retard" and called that quite frequently.

Well kids being nasty and stupid to others based on things they don't understand is a thing you got to expect in a capitalist society


Honestly, kids need more rights, like the right to work, with safe conditions and good pay

[Sinister Intents]

Well kids being nasty and stupid to others based on things they don't understand is a thing you got to expect in a capitalist society

Yeah, I've also noticed their parents condoning their actions. No one deserves this shitty discrimination. I had a teacher call me retard in fifth grade, and then the rest of the students followed suit and I got called retard and psycho and such things. Also a child who was supposedly my friend would set me up for failure and be like "look at the retard haha" Another occurence was me going to a so called friends house at a yound age and her father being like "so I hear your a retard, hows that going?" not verbatim of course but still it fucking sucks and no one deserves to have this bullshit happen to them. Capitalism most certainly creates and allows for this garbage to occur, seems it thrives off of it. Strong versus weak bullshit.


Honestly, kids need more rights, like the right to work, with safe conditions and good pay

Indeed, but that's not the only things kids need. Kids need real educational environments and to be allowed to explore things and learn on their own accord without anyone to tell them what they can and cannot do. Their is no such thing as legitimate authority, children are their own people and should be treated as such. Also Good Pay? how about we destroy capitalism and abolish money. Getting rid of the system, not reforming it will benefit society as a whole.

[GreyWolf]

Is discrimination against young people in our society a current problem? What's your opinion?

Well being in my mid 20's now i'm not sure if i qualify as "young" anymore, but when i was in my late teens i remember there was definitely discrimination towards poor/working class kids, and i think its still relevant today. Those who grew up in the UK will know what i'm talking about.

[TheWannabeAnarchist]

I honestly can't take any of this seriously. You claim that modern scientists are publishing discriminatory papers, and then proceed to support this notion by telling me to look up another modern scientist. Your just trading one PhD for another PhD because one guy's theory agree with your world view.

Yes, my personal story is anecdotal, so is the entirety of this thread, its full of nothing but youths posting their discrimination stories. It is entirely anecdotal.

I'm not saying nasty evil fascist wingnut junk scientists are conspiring together to defame all teenagers, I'm saying that socio-economic factors and the preassumptions of some scientists have led to some flawed analyses. Using the racial IQ flier was a bit overblown, I'll give you that, but I was just trying to use it to illustrate how social conditions can cause even the brightest scientists to make big mistakes.

Don't get me wrong, the older you are, the more experience and wisdom you tend to have under your belt. I'm not denying that. I am saying that in a different system, we would see young people mature more quickly because they would have more incentives to learn and develop.

As for the article I sent you, it simply points out the flaws in some of the research that's been conducted on the teen brain. That's what scientists do, they bicker and argue and debate until the correct theories come out on top. Just because one scientist's wrong doesn't mean they all are. I hardly meant to sound as though I rejected valid studies because of my ideology. Don't read it if you aren't interested,I just thought you might find it good food for thought.

As for the anecdote thing, you are absolutely right and that was stupid of me to say, and I apologize.:)