Drachma

[Philosophos]

OK I've been a little off the news lately because I live abroad ,but I keep seeing that Greece will go back to Drachma (the old currency for anyone that is not familiar with it) and blah blah blah. Most, if not all, that I hear about it is complete bullshit so I would like to hear our prespective on the subject.

1. What are the upcoming consequences for the proletariat under capitalism if we go back to the Drachma?
2. What are the upcoming consequences for the proletariat under an upcoming revolution?
3. Are the capitalists going to get anything out of it?

Please answer for the first years and for the long run if you can.

[cyu]

1. Currency is just a tool. Like a factory or a gun, it's helpful when used correctly, not helpful when the wrong people are in control.

2. If it's a revolution truly meant to help the common man, then of course it would be good for proles. If it's coopted by capitalists, then you just end up with more of the same (kind of like "post"-revolutionary Egypt). If it's taken over by those who merely use ideology as a mask for their own ego, then you might get China xD

3. If they're not in control, then their lives will be improved as much anybody else's (unless there's a murderous backlash that targets them for what they've done in the past). If they are in control, they'll get some short-term gains for sure, but even so, it may just be the blind leading the blind.

[Tim Cornelis]

A return to the drachma would result in major disruptions of financial markets and of the Eurozone and threaten the precarious economic state of the EU, and possibly destroy the chance for economic recovery in the short-term.
It would also enable Greece to devalue its currency (which it can't do now as other countries us the same currency and have an interest in not doing so), and we would see happen what happened in Argentine in 2001 and 2002. A (partial) default and subsequent collapse of the economy followed by a relatively quick and solid recovery. However, the social conditions in Greece, due to years in crisis, are far more heated than in Argentina circa 2000. In 2002 in Argentina workers expropriated factories and workplaces here and there, and formed massive popular assemblies, but ultimately this spontaneous social movement was insufficient to challenge the status quo. In Greece however, a sudden (additional) collapse resulting from defaulting of the already failing economy could push it over the edge. Combined with the possible negative economic ramifications for the rest of the Eurozone and therefore the rest of Europe and therefore the rest of the Western world and therefore the world economy (with diminishing effect the further removed from the epicentre of economic collapse) could very well result in the collapse of Greece society itself, and civil war. I don't think there is sufficient class consciousness to enable a proletarian revolution, but then these are unpredictable culminations of innumerable unforeseeable factors.

Though I'm by no means an expert on monetary policy so I could very well be overstating (or understating) the consequences here.

[tuwix]

OK I've been a little off the news lately because I live abroad ,but I keep seeing that Greece will go back to Drachma (the old currency for anyone that is not familiar with it) and blah blah blah. Most, if not all, that I hear about it is complete bullshit so I would like to hear our prespective on the subject.

1. What are the upcoming consequences for the proletariat under capitalism if we go back to the Drachma?


It would be major blow for neoliberal policy imposed by German industry on the Eurozone. And neoliberalism isn't beneficial for working class at all.



2. What are the upcoming consequences for the proletariat under an upcoming revolution?


I don't know if this could be called a revolution...



3. Are the capitalists going to get anything out of it?

Please answer for the first years and for the long run if you can.


Undoubtedly for bank capitalists. Introducing a drachma back would be for greater money printing and money printing in frames of inflation to 20% is always beneficial for bankers but detrimental for industrial bourgeoisie.
Long term effects it would be dependent on balance achieved between interests of bankers and industry.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

1. Currency is just a tool. Like a factory or a gun, it's helpful when used correctly, not helpful when the wrong people are in control.

2. If it's a revolution truly meant to help the common man, then of course it would be good for proles. If it's coopted by capitalists, then you just end up with more of the same (kind of like "post"-revolutionary Egypt). If it's taken over by those who merely use ideology as a mask for their own ego, then you might get China xD

3. If they're not in control, then their lives will be improved as much anybody else's (unless there's a murderous backlash that targets them for what they've done in the past). If they are in control, they'll get some short-term gains for sure, but even so, it may just be the blind leading the blind.

I'm really not trying to be rude (this will sound rude anyway), but this was more rhetoric than actual solid answers to the question.

[cyu]

this was more rhetoric than actual solid answers to the question.

The question itself isn't very specific. For example, say I asked: What if the Greek government were overthrown? Would that be good for Greece or bad for Greece? The answer of course would depend on who exactly overthrew it. I'm sure your answers would differ depeneding on whether Golden Dawn, leftists, or some other group overthrew it.

So if the question is merely that Greece returns to its old currency (or leave the EU), while leaving all the other political structures, media ownership, and corporate heads in place, then you'll just get more of the same. The only major difference is that the ruling class in Greece will live better, since right now, the Randroids in the EU seem to have abandoned the Greek ruling class as well.

On the other hand, if the question is what would happen if anarcho-communists / anarcho-syndicalists overthrew the Greek government, then I would say the answers would be quite different:

1. Anarchists don't expect anybody to be forced to use any common currency - no more than they expect everybody to be forced to speak the same language. If people want to use something common for convenience sake, they are fine to do it. But if anybody thinks capitalists are using their control over either the Euro or Drachma to dominate them economically, then anarchists would support them in abandoning any currency they want to abandon.

2. Since I consider myself an anacho-syndicalist, clearly I believe the common man would be better off after such a revolution.

3. Depends on the type of anti-capitalists that take control. Worst-case scenario for capitalists would that they be rounded up and executed. Since I personally don't support capital punishment, that would not be the worst-case scenario I would have in mind for them. In fact, since you may call me a "true believer" in anarchism and communism, I believe that even while capitalists may lose economic power, they too would be better off after The Revolution (TM) - in that they would be accepted with open arms into the fellowship of man, and live a life of happiness and companionship, if not one of domination over others. (Not that all anti-capitalists would agree with me of course - but then again, I'm not discussing any random revolution - no more than I'm trying to describe a Golden Dawn revolution.)

[Vilhelmo]

So if the question is merely that Greece returns to its old currency (or leave the EU), while leaving all the other political structures, media ownership, and corporate heads in place, then you'll just get more of the same. The only major difference is that the ruling class in Greece will live better, since right now, the Randroids in the EU seem to have abandoned the Greek ruling class as well.

On the contrary, the consequences of such an action would be profound, the difference between being a Currency User & a Currency Issuer.

As a Euro nation, Greece is Currency User, in a position analogous to a US state or Canadian province.
It must fund its spending by taxes or borrowing (market rate) & is subject to involuntary default.

If Greece adopted its own floating currency, becoming Monetarily Sovereign, it would be a Currency Issuer like the US, Canada, Japan, etc.
A Monetarily Sovereign Nation can always make payments & is not subject to involuntarily default.
Unlike a Currency User, a Currency Issuer sets the interest rate by fiat.

Greece would be able to fund a program of economic recovery & national development, something it currently cannot do.

[cyu]

Greece would be able to fund a program of economic recovery & national development, something it currently cannot do.

Europe can fund a program of economic recovery & national development, but why doesn't it? Because the Randroids in charge want cheap labor. If European Randroids are replaced by Greek Randroids, all you've done is replaced a distant oppressor with a local oppressor.

[Vilhelmo]

Europe can fund a program of economic recovery & national development, but why doesn't it?.

The design of the Euro, a currency union without fiscal union, prevents a European recovery program.
Euro nations are like a US state without the Federal Government.



If European Randroids are replaced by Greek Randroids, all you've done is replaced a distant oppressor with a local oppressor.

I completely agree.
Which is why there is a need for alternatives.