Withcraft

[SovietCommie]

Does RevLeft have any main opinion on the practice of Withcraft and general forms of Black Magic? :)

"Creating an aura of mystery and magic, Witchcraft has always been a fascinating and mesmerising concept for all at all periods of time. Spanning ages and centuries, throughout history, witchcraft has been limited to and practised by certain people, men and women, who have also been looked at with awe, fear, and sometimes, hatred. However, even today, beginner witchcraft is sought by people, wishing to engage themselves and learn the mysterious discipline."
-www(dot)witchcraft(dot)com(dot)au/beginner-witchcraft(dot)html

[Sabot Cat]

Most communists and Marxists are materialists; even if magic and witchcraft are no longer dominant forms of religion and superstition in the Western world, they are nonetheless faulty metaphysical conceptions of the world (principally because the posited mechanisms of magical or supernatural casualty fail to be parsimonious and have no corresponding scientific evidence).

[tachosomoza]

Well, isn't this an interesting breath of fresh air. Not many witches pop up here.

[Comrade #138672]

Mysticism is generally rejected by communists, but if you could somehow prove that magic is a real thing, which is very unlikely, then there would be no reason to oppose it.

[Sinister Intents]

I am interested in Wiccan Paganism, I don't believe in magic or occult type stuff, I do however believe in ghosts, reincarnation, and a few other things, but I'll keep these things to myself more so. I also reject the belief in god or gods, I try to create my own understanding from my own life experiences plus the things I have read.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

I was a Wiccan a couple of decades ago, so I have experience with it. It's a religion, so it's anti-materialist. If you're a materialist, you can't be religious. Other than that, communists don't need to take a position on it.

[Bostana]

It's a pretty interesting religion, Wicca. But for the sake of sounding like a broken record it is a religion and not materialist

[SovietCommie]

I was a Wiccan a couple of decades ago, so I have experience with it. It's a religion, so it's anti-materialist. If you're a materialist, you can't be religious. Other than that, communists don't need to take a position on it.

Doesn't that make Christian Communism an oxymoron then? I believe being religious or believing in supernatural deities falls closer to idealism or realism (we can save that for another day).


10 Planks of Communism...
... 5. Centralization of credit in the hands of the state, by means of a national bank with state capital and an exclusive monopoly/end

"The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation."
-Vladimir Lenin


Christian Communism?

"…Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow. Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?"
—Luke 19:22-23
"Thou oughtest therefore to have put my money to the exchangers, and then at my coming I should have received mine own with usury."
—Matthew 25:27


Not trying to start any flame war! If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. Just asking a simple question after an observation.

[Ritzy Cat]

Christian Communism is an oxymoron

[Sea]

Most communists and Marxists are materialists; even if magic and witchcraft are no longer dominant forms of religion and superstition in the Western world, they are nonetheless faulty metaphysical conceptions of the world (principally because the posited mechanisms of magical or supernatural casualty fail to be parsimonious and have no corresponding scientific evidence).Most communists, yes, but all Marxists.
Well, isn't this an interesting breath of fresh air. Not many witches pop up here.Usually it only takes one look and they fly away!

[Comrade Jacob]

Wicca is one of the few that could be considered a religion in Paganism and thus anti-materialist. Anti-materialist is code word for anti-Marxist. :laugh:
Note: You can still be a communist and be a witch.

[Psycho P and the Freight Train]

Ok, it is getting incredibly annoying with all of you whining about how "that isn't materialist omgz!!111". Seriously, OP is simply asking a question. We all are aware that Marxism is a materialist ideology, clap clap clap. Why don't you give your personal opinion on the subject without pointing out something completely irrelevant? As if we all weren't aware that religion and pseudo religion is not a materialist concept.

[Comrade #138672]

Ok, it is getting incredibly annoying with all of you whining about how "that isn't materialist omgz!!111". Seriously, OP is simply asking a question. We all are aware that Marxism is a materialist ideology, clap clap clap. Why don't you give your personal opinion on the subject without pointing out something completely irrelevant? As if we all weren't aware that religion and pseudo religion is not a materialist concept.The TS was asking for opinions on Witchcraft. Saying that you oppose Witchcraft (or religion in general), because it is anti-materialist, is exactly one of those opinions being asked for, whether you agree with it or not. So I think it is relevant, yes.

Also, Marxism is not an ideology.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Marxism =/= Communism. Marxism is a materialist philosophy about Communism and how to best realize it. Communism is just a mode of society. Hence anyone who says that "Christian Communism" is an oxymoron is blatantly misusing their terminology.

There were numerous Communist societies that were not Marxist and asserted all sorts of idealist mysticism. You know, that whole "primitive Communism" thing Marx and Engels talked about. Those people weren't Marxists or Materialists, even though they were communists.

Hence, you CAN be a Communist and an Idealist, even if you CAN NOT be a Marxist and an idealist. Incidentally, you can also be a scientist with religious beliefs. For instance, Newton, or Leibniz. So superstition, metaphysics and/or idealism aren't necessarily "anti-scientific" either. So one could feasibly be a Communist who is a Wiccan, Christian, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist or whatever, as Communism is, again, a set of material relations. You could believe in God or the cycle of samsara or the goddess (or whatever else) while believing in a society without exchange, where the means of production are owned by all people.



As for witchcraft ... I'm not really one for superstition, but if there's something about it you like, go for it. I always wonder though whether or not people's attachment to Wicca and neopaganism is motivated by a desire to challenge Christian hegemony and a desire to return to something "pure" which has already been lost. Perhaps also a desire for a religion with a less submissive role for the feminine. I imagine everyone has their own motives though.



Also strictly speaking this isn't "philosophy" - perhaps it should be moved to the religion forum.

[Ele'ill]

I am in favor of it. There's magic out there.

[Rafiq]

It's garbage.

But with regard to Mysticism, it is the future of communism. A mystical communist ideology can be held by materialists, because it is distinguished greatly from spiritualism. Mysticism is simply a language, it is the expression of an objective class interest through innately non objective way. It is difficult to explain. Think of Sorel's social myth (and before anyone associates him with Fascism, remember Gramsci drew from him more than Mussolini ever could). A myth is like a weapon, it is not a matter of deceit or trickery because the mysticism represents a concrete, objective interest, simply just expressed in a different way. It is our duty to strive away from the constraints of Anglo Saxon rationalism and look more to continental philosophy.

[Sinister Intents]

I am in favor of it. There's magic out there.

Me too :) It compelled me to start my Book of Shadows again

[Psycho P and the Freight Train]

The TS was asking for opinions on Witchcraft. Saying that you oppose Witchcraft (or religion in general), because it is anti-materialist, is exactly one of those opinions being asked for, whether you agree with it or not. So I think it is relevant, yes.

Also, Marxism is not an ideology.

I suppose so, but if you oppose it because it is anti materialist, then you must oppose any concept that is anti materialist in order to have consistent logic, and that wouldn't make much sense right?

I get what you're saying but I oppose witchcraft not because it is anti materialist but because I believe it is fucking nonsense. Not an intelligent response, I know. I suppose I underestimated how important materialism is in regards to concepts completely outside of it to some people.

[BIXX]

...but because I believe it is fucking nonsense.


Why?

I imagine because it isn't materialist.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

I think he's probably referring to the fact that spells dont actually do anything, if they did it would obviously be a much more popular hobby. Still, I can think of worse things to do with your time so whatever, maybe the illusion of control is useful for some people.

[The Jay]

Any worship directed away from the Great Old Ones is blasphemy. Cut it out.

[Sentinel]

Moved to Religion.

[Tenka]

Wicca is a 20th-century popularisation of a 19th-century popularisation of the ancien witch cults and I don't like it. Rather make up my own rituals to add a magic flavour to my mundane materialist life, when and if any such is desired.

Recently I read The 37th Mandala by Marc Laidlaw which is perhaps relevant to any discussion on neo-paganism and new age (almost the same animal), though it's a horror novel.