why women aren't welcome on the internet

[bcbm]

trigger warning: lots of verbal threats, abuse, stalking content

http://www.psmag.com/navigation/health-and-behavior/women-arent-welcome-internet-72170/

[Bostana]

A lot of men are sexist and with the power to cower behind the keys of a message board make their possibility to threaten people and be sexist assholes unlimited.

[Bala Perdida]

Why did I have to be born into this gender. It's patriarchs like this that piss me off, and when I tell them women are people they call me gay. They tell me I'm some sort of soft sissy or some shit. That I'll never get a girlfriend. I'm not sure how respect for females by not seeing them as commodities is bad, but apparently it makes me less of a man; whatever the hell that means! Then when I get into saying gay people are people and saying it's okay for a women to take charge in a relationship, suddenly I'm a Cultural Marxist. Fuck conservatives, fuck their one sided intolerant racist values, and fuck their Bible fetish.

[tallguy]

Why did I have to be born into this gender. It's patriarchs like this that piss me off, and when I tell them women are people they call me gay. They tell me I'm some sort of soft sissy or some shit. That I'll never get a girlfriend. I'm not sure how respect for females by not seeing them as commodities is bad, but apparently it makes me less of a man; whatever the hell that means! Then when I get into saying gay people are people and saying it's okay for a women to take charge in a relationship, suddenly I'm a Cultural Marxist. Fuck conservatives, fuck their one sided intolerant racist values, and fuck their Bible fetish.
Bleeding hell man, most men are not like that, or nowhere near as much like that as you imply. And most women are not victims or nowhere near as much as you imply. Most people, at least in your average western secular country, for all of the other manifest and long standing faults of those countries, are more or less okay and just doing their best to navigate a rapidly changing culture and economy. That's not to say there are not real issues surrounding gender inequity and suppression on both genders. Just stop moaning and hand-wringing. You sound like you are enjoying your public self flagellation of your own gender it for its own sake I've got to say.

[Comrade Jacob]

I think there are more women on the internet than you think, just lots of them don't say they are women because of the sexism.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Bleeding hell man, most men are not like that, or nowhere near as much like that as you imply.

Well we are talking about general trends and so there's going to be hard to make generalizations about how most people think or act. However, what the comrade describes regarding bullying just for trying to call out blatantly sexist attitudes seems plenty familiar to me and when I was in high school I was too intimidated by generalized anti-gay comments and sentiments to call people out.

I think the sexism on the internet is more than common enough to say that there is this trend. How many people actually have these ideas matters less than the fact that it's common. It's like with "rape-culture" really date-rapists are a small percentage of men, but they do it repeatedly (often not even thinking it's rape) and general cultural attitudes are what enable them to get away with it.

As a guess, I'd say it's the same with general sexism and racism on the internet, it's probably an obnoxious minority, but anyone who calls them on it is then attacked and bullied. This creates a sense of normalcy and entitlement around sexist ideas and messages while also creating a sense of under confidence or timid ness to counter it.


That's not to say there are not real issues surrounding gender inequity and suppression on both genders. Just stop moaning and hand-wringing. You sound like you are enjoying your public self flagellation of your own gender it for its own sake I've got to say.don't go there. Men are not suppressed for being men like women are and the gender issues men face are usually an aspect of anti-woman attitudes. I'm not sure where you are coming from with the "both genders face repression" argument, but a lot of the common arguments about supposed anti-male or anti-white biases in society (or arguments that make an equivalency between sexism and "reverse-sexism") are part of the problem IMO and how people are able to ignore or diminish sexism or racism in contemporary society.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

That's not to say there are not real issues surrounding gender inequity and suppression on both genders. Just stop moaning and hand-wringing. You sound like you are enjoying your public self flagellation of your own gender it for its own sake I've got to say.

And what are these exactly?

Are you going to shower me with false rape statistics from reddit's latest MRA hovel?

[Philosophos]

Why did I have to be born into this gender. It's patriarchs like this that piss me off, and when I tell them women are people they call me gay. They tell me I'm some sort of soft sissy or some shit. That I'll never get a girlfriend. I'm not sure how respect for females by not seeing them as commodities is bad, but apparently it makes me less of a man; whatever the hell that means! Then when I get into saying gay people are people and saying it's okay for a women to take charge in a relationship, suddenly I'm a Cultural Marxist. Fuck conservatives, fuck their one sided intolerant racist values, and fuck their Bible fetish.

same crap happens here. I suppose since we've reached a certain point of 'evolved thinking' (I don't know how to express it in english) we were supposed to have equality as a top priority, but that's not true.

I think it's like the small-dick syndrome. These MANLY-MANISH-MEN can't feel as men if they don't act in a sexist way... I dunno I will ask a psychologist for any thoughts on the subject.

[Bala Perdida]

Bleeding hell man, most men are not like that, or nowhere near as much like that as you imply. And most women are not victims or nowhere near as much as you imply. Most people, at least in your average western secular country, for all of the other manifest and long standing faults of those countries, are more or less okay and just doing their best to navigate a rapidly changing culture and economy. That's not to say there are not real issues surrounding gender inequity and suppression on both genders. Just stop moaning and hand-wringing. You sound like you are enjoying your public self flagellation of your own gender it for its own sake I've got to say.
Sorry, I was tired as hell last night. Also most of this was referring to family members. Also the culture and other country I constantly visit isn't big on women being equal.

[Bala Perdida]

same crap happens here. I suppose since we've reached a certain point of 'evolved thinking' (I don't know how to express it in english) we were supposed to have equality as a top priority, but that's not true.

I think it's like the small-dick syndrome. These MANLY-MANISH-MEN can't feel as men if they don't act in a sexist way... I dunno I will ask a psychologist for any thoughts on the subject.
Makes sense, it might be a result of a TV/movie star/music video fantasy obsession. Fame culture certainly doesn't help fight the problem.

[G4b3n]

That's not to say there are not real issues surrounding gender inequity and suppression on both genders.

I have been absolutely dying to see this matriarchal society where men are oppressed.

[tallguy]

I have been absolutely dying to see this matriarchal society where men are oppressed.Try dropping the straw-man clichés for minute why don't you.

[Sabot Cat]

Bleeding hell man, most men are not like that, or nowhere near as much like that as you imply.

It's a good thing he said "patriarchs like that", and not "all men", then.


And most women are not victims or nowhere near as much as you imply.

Um, he was complaining about how people treat him because of his feminist views, not how most women are oppressed in our society (which they are, and although he does touch on this, he doesn't even suggest a quantity). Did you even read the post you were responding to? And what do you mean by this?


Most people, at least in your average western secular country, for all of the other manifest and long standing faults of those countries, are more or less okay and just doing their best to navigate a rapidly changing culture and economy.

This doesn't make them any less casually or frequently sexist, racist, homophobic, or what have you.


That's not to say there are not real issues surrounding gender inequity and suppression on both genders.

I think other posters have already drawn attention to the absurdity that both genders are targets of suppression by society at large.


Just stop moaning and hand-wringing. You sound like you are enjoying your public self flagellation of your own gender it for its own sake I've got to say.


Again, he was complaining about how patriarchy negatively effects him. I think your accusations that he somehow enjoys this are unfounded and belittling.

[G4b3n]

Try dropping the straw-man clichés for minute why don't you.


Okay, perhaps you could provide with a micro example of men being oppressed by matriarchy or any form of female power in any context?

[blake 3:17]

I'm astounded by some of the total misogyny. Some creeps love to hide (a bit). A lot are pretty stupid...

Just for a reality check:


Social media sites are also seeing a gender split — women use social media more than men. More women are on Facebook and Twitter. About 57% of Facebook and 59% of Twitter users are women.

Women gravitate toward Pinterest and young, techie men hang out on Google+. Pinterest has the heaviest gender imbalance — 82% of users are women, who pin crafts, gift ideas, hobbies, interior design and fashion. On the other spectrum, Google+ is dominated by men (71%) and early adopters, engineers and developers. About 50% of Google+ users are 24 or younger.

LinkedIn reports an even ratio of men and women — 49% over age 45 — who use the site to connect with other business professionals.

http://mashable.com/2012/03/09/social-media-demographics/

[Sinister Intents]

trigger warning: lots of verbal threats, abuse, stalking content

http://www.psmag.com/navigation/health-and-behavior/women-arent-welcome-internet-72170/

OMG..... I'm ashamed to be a heterosexual man with fuckers like that in existence....

[Bala Perdida]

OMG..... I'm ashamed to be a heterosexual man with fuckers like that in existence....
I'm not sure of you're being sarcastic. But if you're not then... I KNOW RIGHT!!! It's assholes like this that get us generalized by feminists and what not, and I can't say I blame them much. I mean they just want simple equality, but patriarchal tendencies like this are way too common on the internet to allow that. I mean if I go on youtube and check the comments for someone like Crazyrussianhacker I won't find any females calling him a hot piece of ass and graphically describing what they would do to him. Then I go on a females channel and the comments are just apauling, I praise them for being able to upload videos and disregard the viewers. Also, a thanks to those who recognized my message in my first response.

[tallguy]

Okay, perhaps you could provide with a micro example of men being oppressed by matriarchy or any form of female power in any context?
Fuck me, you are doing it again. Are you some kind of bot that pushes out pre-programmed automatic responses to key words or something? I specifically accused you of erecting a clichéd straw man by attempting to disingenuously characterise my position as being that men, as an entire gender, are somehow oppressed by matriarchy when I have made no such suggestion on this or any other thread on here. To which you have responded with the same clichéd straw-man mis-characterisation. Give it up for fuck's sake. It's pathetic and makes you look like you are incapable of proper comprehension of the written word and/or incapable of rational thought due to an all-encompassing ideological confirmation bias.

I am bound to say I am guessing here, but you give the distinct impression (if your responses to my posts are anything to go by) of believing that unless someone adheres to a view that all men are either potential or actual oppressors of all women, then they must therefore take the view that no men oppress any women, or even that they must believe the complete opposite (that all women oppress all men). I've got news for you. Reality is not quite so simple, dichotomous or infantile as that.

[adipocere]

Regardless of how many cutesy corporate apps and websites you filter your existence through, the internet is still a seedy mostly anonymous place that has always been hostile towards women. While I sympathize with the author, I do question the judgment of anyone who puts their entire personal life online, from names to numbers and addresses and photos and instant ways of communicating. The only thing that has changed about the internet is the success of a few huge corporate actors' - whose business is data mining - efforts to lure people into a false sense of security so that they will consume virtual goods and services and fill NSA databases.

No I'm not blaming the victim here, I'm just pointing out that women who take even small steps to protect their identities online simply do not have these problems on this scale. This woman's situation is an extreme example (even celebrities are more private than some people online) and not representative of the experiences of the majority of women who use the internet less publicly. I was aghast a few years ago seeing people putting photos of their children on Facebook, let alone their phone numbers and addresses, now it just par for the course. Herd mentality I suppose. If enough people do something dumb, you just have to redefine dumb.

(While I was reading this article and the abuse the author was suffering, I was reminded of that scene from Silence of the Lambs where Clarice is walking though the prison, past those creepy inmates to visit Hannibal Lecter. Then I had this mental image of Clarice is going down there everyday and putting up with that nonsense in order to send tweets to her fans and it made me feel tired.)

[Ritzy Cat]

I imagine a society like the black widow spiders - after copulation, the female spider kills the male.

Also, Femitheism (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvEJfN-jiS4)

She even says in the video - "You can't stop us, don't even waste our time". Just let women do what they want on the internet, they will take over the world eventually Trust me.

[Queen Mab]

Regardless of how many cutesy corporate apps and websites you filter your existence through, the internet is still a seedy mostly anonymous place that has always been hostile towards women. While I sympathize with the author, I do question the judgment of anyone who puts their entire personal life online, from names to numbers and addresses and photos and instant ways of communicating. The only thing that has changed about the internet is the success of a few huge corporate actors' - whose business is data mining - efforts to lure people into a false sense of security so that they will consume virtual goods and services and fill NSA databases.

No I'm not blaming the victim here, I'm just pointing out that women who take even small steps to protect their identities online simply do not have these problems on this scale. This woman's situation is an extreme example (even celebrities are more private than some people online) and not representative of the experiences of the majority of women who use the internet less publicly. I was aghast a few years ago seeing people putting photos of their children on Facebook, let alone their phone numbers and addresses, now it just par for the course. Herd mentality I suppose. If enough people do something dumb, you just have to redefine dumb.

(While I was reading this article and the abuse the author was suffering, I was reminded of that scene from Silence of the Lambs where Clarice is walking though the prison, past those creepy inmates to visit Hannibal Lecter. Then I had this mental image of Clarice is going down there everyday and putting up with that nonsense in order to send tweets to her fans and it made me feel tired.)

Er what? It's nothing to do with her private life, she's a journalist. Using social media is part of her job. Are you saying women should stop going on social media in case they get attacked? :confused:

[adipocere]

Er what? It's nothing to do with her private life, she's a journalist. Using social media is part of her job. Are you saying women should stop going on social media in case they get attacked? :confused:
No I think that people who put their real info online are recklessly naive. This is pretty much the crux of the issue I was talking about;
"the women they target often write on professional platforms, under their given names, and in the context of their real lives. Victims don’t have the luxury of separating themselves from the crime."
Before social media, people simply didn't view the internet as a safe place to give their names and the context of their real lives. The internet hasn't changed, just the careless attitude people have developed toward it.

[Comrade #138672]

Bleeding hell man, most men are not like that, or nowhere near as much like that as you imply. And most women are not victims or nowhere near as much as you imply.Are you really saying that sexism does not affect most women?


Most people, at least in your average western secular country, for all of the other manifest and long standing faults of those countries, are more or less okay and just doing their best to navigate a rapidly changing culture and economy. That's not to say there are not real issues surrounding gender inequity and suppression on both genders.So sexism oppresses men just as much as women?


Just stop moaning and hand-wringing. You sound like you are enjoying your public self flagellation of your own gender it for its own sake I've got to say.At least he is not denying that sexism is a real thing that still affects most women, like you are.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

Fuck me, you are doing it again. Are you some kind of bot that pushes out pre-programmed automatic responses to key words or something? I specifically accused you of erecting a clichéd straw man by attempting to disingenuously characterise my position as being that men, as an entire gender, are somehow oppressed by matriarchy when I have made no such suggestion on this or any other thread on here. To which you have responded with the same clichéd straw-man mis-characterisation. Give it up for fuck's sake. It's pathetic and makes you look like you are incapable of proper comprehension of the written word and/or incapable of rational thought due to an all-encompassing ideological confirmation bias.

I am bound to say I am guessing here, but you give the distinct impression (if your responses to my posts are anything to go by) of believing that unless someone adheres to a view that all men are either potential or actual oppressors of all women, then they must therefore take the view that no men oppress any women, or even that they must believe the complete opposite (that all women oppress all men). I've got news for you. Reality is not quite so simple, dichotomous or infantile as that.

Instead of freaking out can you just clarify what you meant with your original statement? Multiple people have questioned it, so it's clearly not as comprehensible as you believe it is.

[Psycho P and the Freight Train]

I think your reactions to Tallguy's statement is a little over the top. I don't think he's being some kind of anti feminist apologist. I think he feels a bit frustrated at what CooperationIsKey said about "oh why did I have to be born male." That statement is nothing but immature self loathing and if anything, it hurts any chance of people taking feminism seriously. Why should males feel bad about themselves just because many males are sexist? Most people in the first world embrace women's' rights, and that's what I think Tallguy was pointing out. And it sucks to have the entire male gender generalized as most of them being sexist pigs. It gets frustrating.

That's not to take away from what the article was pointing out. It made me cringe with disgust, and sexist cyber bullying is certainly an issue. That is a matter of changing our discriminatory culture.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

I disagree that most people in the first world embrace women's rights, and I would say that what is "accepted" in the first world is a pretty narrow definition of women's rights. I would also say that the majority of men probably are sexist, not in an explicit intentional way, but just as a result of what our current cultural norms are in relation to women.

Anyhow, he can think whatever he wants about someone else's guilt, what's being called into question is what he meant by the line about both sexes being suppressed. This could mean multiple things, but it's being called into question due to the men's rights people that have been popping up claiming that feminism has supposedly gone so far that men are now the oppressed gender. So it's not unreasonable to ask him what he meant, although it is a little suspicious that he keeps sidestepping the question and is now being so sensitive about it.

[tallguy]

I disagree that most people in the first world embrace women's rights, and I would say that what is "accepted" in the first world is a pretty narrow definition of women's rights. I would also say that the majority of men probably are sexist, not in an explicit intentional way, but just as a result of what our current cultural norms are in relation to women.

Anyhow, he can think whatever he wants about someone else's guilt, what's being called into question is what he meant by the line about both sexes being suppressed. This could mean multiple things, but it's being called into question due to the men's rights people that have been popping up claiming that feminism has supposedly gone so far that men are now the oppressed gender. So it's not unreasonable to ask him what he meant, although it is a little suspicious that he keeps sidestepping the question and is now being so sensitive about it.Men are encouraged to see women as whores or Madonnas, women are encouraged to see men as idiots or predators, everyone is encouraged to blame "immigrants/single mothers/chavs/the old/the young/insert your scapegoat of choice here" as being the "enemy".

Don't you fucking get it yet? You are being played like fiddles, via a compliant MSM in the service of the real enemies of all of us, to turn on anyone and everyone except your real enemies, no more or less than anyone else is being played. But, safe inside your smug, ideological comfort-blanket of platitudinous, knee-jerk responses to what you clearly see as "politically safe" targets of generalised scape-goating, you can't see it. It's sickening, pathetic and deeply depressing.

FFS

[Sabot Cat]

Men are encouraged to see women as whores or Madonnas, women are encouraged to see men as idiots or predators, everyone is encouraged to blame "immigrants/single mothers/chavs/insert your scapegoat of choice here" as being the "enemy".

Don't you get it yet? You are being played like fiddles, via a compliant MSM in the service of the real enemies of all of us, to turn on anyone and everyone except your real enemies, no more or less than anyone else is being played. But, safe inside your smug, ideological comfort-blanket of knee-jerk responses, you can't fucking see it. It's sickening, pathetic and deeply depressing.

FFS

I don't think you're looking at this like a materialist. Those who bare the brunt of oppression in society on the basis of gender, including the industrialized world, are women. That's why men are compensated more for the same labor by the bourgeois, why women have lower literacy rates, and why many nations still have laws that seek to subjugate women. Your emotional baiting, sheeple talk and derailment of this thread is unappreciated.

Furthermore, you're perpetuating a false equivalence. The oppression of women and men are not equal. The Madonna-whore dichotomy is based wholly on a false system of deontological ethics that seeks to control women's sexuality. The perception of men as less intelligent is really only a stereotype when it comes to "women's work" like chores or child-rearing in advertising. In professional fields like mathematics, science, literature, etc. men are respected as more knowledgeable or seen as the archetype of what a professor or learned person is like. Furthermore, the view that a disturbingly large quantity of men are predators is absolutely true, as rape is all too common. The vast majority of those who commit rape are men. There is no equivalence here, as patriarchy first and foremost is the subjugation of women.

[Yuppie Grinder]

women aren't really welcome outside of the internet either tbh

[Ceallach_the_Witch]

this stuff makes my skin absolutely crawl. I wish I could say it was down to internet anonymity - but you see stuff like this on social media sites (where you can hardly be said to be anonymous) and it's telling enough that if you call it into question in the comments on something (whether you're male or female) all sorts of stuff crawls out of the woodwork to fling vitriol at you - simply for questioning their "right" to objectify, degrade, dehumanise and threaten women. It's disturbingly prevelent on student-run pages (for example, my university's Spotted page for the library) where you'll often get the kind of leering sexism you'd kind of expect in a 70's game show or something.

[Comrade Jaraxxus]

This is something I've felt for a long time...

I play a lot of League of Legends, and I can't count on my fingers how many times I've had to stick up for someone who was the target of sexist bullying.

[BIXX]

Men are encouraged to see women as whores or Madonnas, women are encouraged to see men as idiots or predators, everyone is encouraged to blame "immigrants/single mothers/chavs/the old/the young/insert your scapegoat of choice here" as being the "enemy".

Don't you fucking get it yet? You are being played like fiddles, via a compliant MSM in the service of the real enemies of all of us, to turn on anyone and everyone except your real enemies, no more or less than anyone else is being played. But, safe inside your smug, ideological comfort-blanket of platitudinous, knee-jerk responses to what you clearly see as "politically safe" targets of generalised scape-goating, you can't see it. It's sickening, pathetic and deeply depressing.

FFS

I'm glad that you think us attacking oppression is depressing.

Who the hell do you think are the real enemies if not sexists, queerphobes, racists, and classists?

[Redistribute the Rep]

Don't you fucking get it yet? You are being played like fiddles, via a compliant MSM in the service of the real enemies of all of us, to turn on anyone and everyone except your real enemies, no more or less than anyone else is being played. But, safe inside your smug, ideological comfort-blanket of platitudinous, knee-jerk responses to what you clearly see as "politically safe" targets of generalised scape-goating, you can't see it. It's sickening, pathetic and deeply depressing.

FFS

I don't see how addressing these issues is turning men and women against each other. In fact, it's probably more accurate to say that attacking feminism and allowing sexist attitudes towards women persist is what's keeping us divided.

[GerrardWinstanley]

Censorship or no censorship, I think we should work toward a state of affairs where people are made to feel the same sense of fear and dread for outing themselves as misogynists online that people do for outing themselves as women do now.

[Yuppie Grinder]

If someone had left a phone message saying the same threatening things, the police would have cared, but because it was over the internet they didn't. Their out of touch, aside from being evil shitheads.

[blake 3:17]

Good on the women taking this piece of shit on. Creep.


If you ever wonder if what you’re tweeting can be used against you in court, the answer is yes. And it could land you in jail.
“The law doesn’t make a distinction between the medium,” says Toronto Internet and defamation lawyer Gil Zvulony. “The only difference is the way people think about it.”
Skip ahead to the 26-minute mark of the video above to see our full interview with Zvulony.
RELATED STORIES
New charges laid in Twitter harassment case: police
PHOTOS
Gregory Alan Elliott Toronto police Twitter
Gregory Alan Elliott, 52, is pictured in a photo provided by Toronto police. (Handout)
He says as more people use social media, he is seeing more cases of defamation and harassment online. Opportunity has gone up with technological ease, but also because people think they can say things from the comfort of behind their computer. Tweeting something is the same as shouting it in person.
Today, a court case began in Toronto that may set a new precedent when it comes to social media harassment. And it may have implications for anyone who spends time online.
Gregory Alan Elliott was in court today accused of criminal harassment for messages allegedly posted to Twitter. A woman, who can’t be named, alleges Elliott sent her sexual messages and continued doing so even after she asked him to stop. She says she feared for her safety during the time Elliott was sending tweets. Two more women came forward last January and were added to the number of complainants.
Harassment is generally unsolicited words or conduct, which alarm or abuse another person and cause that person to fear for his or her safety. Just because it’s online it doesn’t mean it isn’t harassment, says Zvulony. If Elliott is found guilty he may face jail time, but it depends on the circumstances.
“People have been getting into conflicts with each other since the dawn of time,” he says. “People are just using new technology to vent.”
Facebook messages are used often in court, but to Zvulony’s knowledge, this is the first time someone has been charged for behavior exclusively on Twitter.
The lawyer says our laws are fully equipped to deal with a case like this. The claimant must prove she was really afraid, but the line between trolling and harassment online is blurry and people post offensive comments all the time on Twitter.


Read more: http://knlive.ctvnews.ca/toronto-harassment-case-may-show-how-tweets-can-lead-to-jail-1.1628352#ixzz2pyisGMB6

[Flying Purple People Eater]

I imagine a society like the black widow spiders - after copulation, the female spider kills the male.

Also, Femitheism (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvEJfN-jiS4)

She even says in the video - "You can't stop us, don't even waste our time". Just let women do what they want on the internet, they will take over the world eventually Trust me.

Erm, did everyone miss this or something? :laugh:

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Don't you fucking get it yet? You are being played like fiddles, via a compliant MSM in the service of the real enemies of all of us
Sexism isn't an enemy of revolutionaries? Fuck your dudebro revolution.

[Comrade #138672]

I'm glad that you think us attacking oppression is depressing.

Who the hell do you think are the real enemies if not sexists, queerphobes, racists, and classists?He will most likely say that capitalism is the enemy, which is not wrong, except that he uses this to undermine the struggle against racism, sexism, etc., which happens to be very important in the struggle against capitalism in general. He is basically arguing that the struggle against sexism causes sexism, or worse, that the struggle against sexism is sexism in itself, because it requires a critical attitude towards sexist men and male privileges in general. You might as well argue that the struggle against class divisions is divisive in itself and that people should therefore learn to work with capitalism rather than overthrowing it.

[BIXX]

Erm, did everyone miss this or something? :laugh:


I didn't miss it but I also didn't understand it so I was confused and didn't know what to do. I thought it may be a joke or something but I seriously had no idea.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Men are encouraged to see women as whores or Madonnas, women are encouraged to see men as idiots or predators, everyone is encouraged to blame "immigrants/single mothers/chavs/the old/the young/insert your scapegoat of choice here" as being the "enemy".women are not encouraged to see men as the enemy in the mainstream, in fact in my experience, "feminazi" and "man-hating feminist" are pretty common attacks on any woman who speaks about any issues of sexism.

Women are also not encouraged to see all men as predators, in fact often when it comes to real predators, they are asked and pushed to not see predators as predators. School administrations and campus police in the u.s. Regularly dissuade date-rape victims from pressing charges because it will hurt the reputation of the school and "you had something to drink, you don't want to ruin this rich kid's life over a... Misunderstanding". The media hypes up stranger attack rapes, which are rare, and ignores date-rapes which are common.... You'd think it would be the opposite if there was a conspiracy to make women see men as predators. If anything makes some women feel like prey, it might be casual rape-jokes, unwanted advances, seeing women's bodies advertised like meat or a can of beer everywhere you look, and personal experiences of harassment or worse.

Also, if men were oppressed by being seen as idiots, you'd think that they wouldn't be over-represented in academic sciences, corporate and governmental high decision-making bodies, and so on. You probably wouldn't have things like where a former Clinton administration advisor becomes the head of Harvard and then say the lack of female students in elite sciences is due to women not being smart enough and then get hired to be the economist for the Obama administration.


Don't you fucking get it yet?yeah, I was thinking the same thing.

[Czy]

women are not encouraged to see men as the enemy in the mainstream, in fact in my experience, "feminazi" and "man-hating feminist" are pretty common attacks on any woman who speaks about any issues of sexism.

"Feminism is a socialist, anti-family, political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism and become lesbians." - Pat Robertson

Still the most ridiculous quote. It reads as a "joke" but he was being 100% serious.

[Red Commissar]

The article highlighting cases of women being harassed by assholes reminds me of a nasty episode on the internet, specifically in gaming circles, of Anita Sarkeesian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anita_Sarkeesian).

She wanted to discuss certain cliches and tropes in video games, particularly those revolving around women and the sexist ways they are often portrayed. I found it quite unsettling how many "gamers" were complaining about her trying to explore this, and it got worse after she launched a successful kickstarter to have a short youtube series exploring how different games have treated their female characters.

It revealed a lot of the latent sexism that's in these communities, though unsurprisingly they tried to write it off as merely criticizing her for reading too much into video games, or that she was just in it for the money (she's not a "real gamer", doesn't use her own footage, etc...), but you could tell that there was a lot of resentment towards people pointing out sexist elements in their games. And that's not even including the more blatant hate she got from trolls, through her blog, twitter, youtube account, etc. much like the author had happen to her and other people.

Nearly every gaming site I went into she was not a popular figure, which I found odd. I mean this bizarre hate seemed to be very irrational and then indicated to me that this was obviously an indication of something very dysfunctional in gaming circles, especially among the more obnoxious fans. Go to any community that's built around gaming- forums, news sites, what ever, and search for her name. See what comes up. Even in articles or posts just talking about it in general, you'll get people complaining to high heaven about her like she had personally come in and beat the shit out of them.

To build off what JH said, these kinds of women are written off as basically some variation of a hysterical feminist or into feminazi territory, just for speaking out about what they feel. Plus the strawfeminists that are popular among the crowd and exaggerated or outright invented stories about women lying about being raped.

While not on the internet, there was a similar event in the comics industry when a female fan, Gail Simone, started an internet page exploring the way women were treated in comic series. Interestingly, she went beyond the more obvious ones (their appearance) to the way they were used in the plot, more often than not suffering horrible injuries or deaths that rarely befell the male heroes or villains (for example, Batman got his back broken and recovered, where as Batgirl was paralyzed for good pre-52 comics and almost disappeared before returning as Oracle). She started this list after one of the Green Lanterns' girlfriend was killed by his villain, and then stuffed in a refrigerator (inspiring the name of the list, "Women in Refrigerators (http://lby3.com/wir/index.html)").

She got a good amount of support for exploring this but there were the idiots who treated her in much the same way the article showed with people getting harassed. Interestingly she was able to land a position in the comics industry shortly afterwards, being one of the few (if not only) female writer consistently employed by DC for sometime.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Yeah I read about the "women in refrigerators" trope, kinda amazing.

To digress a little from the main point of this thread, fandom is an interesting phenomena to me. I group geek-fandom, sci-fi fandom, and sports fandom together... I don't think rabid sports, soap opera, comic, or fantasy fans are all that different in dedication and some traits (though they get treated differently based on perceptions or real trends among who comprise the fans... I.e. Now it's cool and a target market to be a grown man and superhero or sci-fi (or sports) fanatic, but women who have as much passion for soaps or romance novels "have trouble knowing fact from fiction... Are hysterical, not fanatical".

Anyway I think that fan subcultures have many positives, but the way politics gets mixed in is infuriating. A team can have a racist name and if people dare question it, suddenly you are wreaking things by bringing in politics according to right wing fans. When a movie about gods living on a planet and using a rainbow to travel to other planets cast a black actor to play a character very loosely based from Norse mythology, suddenly some white people cried about how unrealistic that was! The flack gets intense and it becomes downright bullying and bigotry when regular bloggers bring up political issues in entertainment products.

[Kazu]

I've been browsing the forum for a while but decided to join today because I saw this thread and the article by Amanda Hess really resonated with me.

I am not a public figure or anyone famous, just a woman with an internet connection.

My cyberstalking happened in a very similar way. I posted on a board, I saw a post by a male and posted (politely) disagreeing with it. All of a sudden the response was a barrage of insults. I fired back thinking this was an idiot who would go away in two days. This was in 2010 and the person harassed me for over three years (the last time I was contacted was on xmas day 2013).

He spread lies about me, threatened to rape/murder me, hacked my social media accounts, posted my personal information all over the Internet, and contacted my employer trying to get me fired.

Then he got a group in on it.

I had PTSD before but was in a good relapse for many years but it came back with a vengeance.

This harassment is still ongoing. I can no longer use the old names I used online because they will follow me. Often when I join new places, I pretend to be a male as well. Actually I joined the same forum I picked up this stalker pretending to be a male and don't get near the abuse.

The harassment is still ongoing but they have given me a break as of late. They sometimes give me breaks, they're unpredictable though so I am always on edge.

I know a thing or two about computers so I have personal information on them.

I contacted the police they told me to get off the Internet/social media. Because of my profession, that is NOT an option. When I told the police that, they told me to actually go back to school to retrain and get into another career.

I had no interest in leftism, and not womens issues (I guess I forgot I was a woman) until this experience. In some ways I was a right-leaning person, or maybe in the politicial center I guess.

[Kazu]

Here's a good article about a guy who pretended to be a woman online to see what it was like. He did it on a dating site but the female experience online is pretty much the same everywhere. I'm expecting it from here at some point, TBH.

http://newsfeed.time.com/2014/01/14/this-guy-attempted-to-find-out-exactly-how-hard-it-is-for-women-to-online-date/

Spoiler alert: He only lasted two hours!

[Comrade #138672]

I've been browsing the forum for a while but decided to join today because I saw this thread and the article by Amanda Hess really resonated with me.

I am not a public figure or anyone famous, just a woman with an internet connection.

My cyberstalking happened in a very similar way. I posted on a board, I saw a post by a male and posted (politely) disagreeing with it. All of a sudden the response was a barrage of insults. I fired back thinking this was an idiot who would go away in two days. This was in 2010 and the person harassed me for over three years (the last time I was contacted was on xmas day 2013).

He spread lies about me, threatened to rape/murder me, hacked my social media accounts, posted my personal information all over the Internet, and contacted my employer trying to get me fired.

Then he got a group in on it.

I had PTSD before but was in a good relapse for many years but it came back with a vengeance.

This harassment is still ongoing. I can no longer use the old names I used online because they will follow me. Often when I join new places, I pretend to be a male as well. Actually I joined the same forum I picked up this stalker pretending to be a male and don't get near the abuse.

The harassment is still ongoing but they have given me a break as of late. They sometimes give me breaks, they're unpredictable though so I am always on edge.

I know a thing or two about computers so I have personal information on them.

I contacted the police they told me to get off the Internet/social media. Because of my profession, that is NOT an option. When I told the police that, they told me to actually go back to school to retrain and get into another career.

I had no interest in leftism, and not womens issues (I guess I forgot I was a woman) until this experience. In some ways I was a right-leaning person, or maybe in the politicial center I guess.That's really disgusting. Unfortunately, it happens all the time. Yet, you cannot find help anywhere.

I have heard stories of women getting activist hackers to stop these scumbags themselves.

[Dennis the 'Bloody Peasant']

Kazu - It genuinely angers and upsets me to hear what you've been subjected to. For what it's worth, I'm sorry and I hope it will stop soon and those responsible are exposed for the bastard cowards they are.

There is so little or no recourse for women who are abused and tormented online, other than just not using the internet / social media and hiding their gender. This should not be the only course of action. Has anyone heard of any organisations that aim to combat this specifically? (hacktivists that target the trolls / stalkers, places to get advice / help avoiding it if it starts etc)

[Kazu]

Has anyone heard of any organisations that aim to combat this specifically? (hacktivists that target the trolls / stalkers, places to get advice / help avoiding it if it starts etc)

I want to get something like this started.