Derrick Jensen

[The Feral Underclass]

What are people's thoughts on this guy? I personally think he's a literal lunatic (probably because of his traumatic childhood), but I would be interested to know what other people think?

[Os Cangaceiros]

He's a big fat stupidhead who likes salmon too much

[The Feral Underclass]

He's a big fat stupidhead who likes salmon too much

That is the best critique I have ever read of anything, ever....Totally true as well.

[The Feral Underclass]

This was brought to my attention today. Skip to 3:20.

8wuRoJTzpQ8

[Ele'ill]

I think DGR is a transphobic problem I think Jensen also is, I don't think anything Jensen has presented is a particularly unique take on radical, deep ecology / environmentalism but I enjoy his books and I agree with a lot of the observations and conclusions presented.

[The Feral Underclass]

I think DGR is a transphobic problem I think Jensen also is, I don't think anything Jensen has presented is a particularly unique take on radical, deep ecology / environmentalism but I enjoy his books and I agree with a lot of the observations and conclusions presented.

Do salmons also bid you to blow up dams for them in return for their suicide? Lol

[Ele'ill]

meh

[bcbm]

tree hugging salmon fucker

[tallguy]

Derrick Jenson is irrational and uncompromising.

And on many things, he is right.

The biggest catastrophe to hit planet earth was human civilisation. We are not separate from the earth. We are of the earth. We forgot this some time ago and we are about to pay a heavy price for that. Either we don't find an alternative to hydrocarbons to fuel our unsustainable global civilisation, in which case we crash. Or, we do find an alternative, in which case we burn and also take much of the mega flora and fauna down to hell with us.

Either way, it ends badly for humans.

[The Feral Underclass]

Derrick Jenson is irrational and uncompromising.

And on many things, he is right.

The biggest catastrophe to hit planet earth was human civilisation. We are not separate from the earth. We are of the earth. We forgot this some time ago and we are about to pay a heavy price for that. Either we don't find an alternative to hydrocarbons to fuel our unsustainable global civilisation, in which case we crash. Or, we do find an alternative, in which case we burn and also take much of the mega flora and fauna down to hell with us.

Either way, it ends badly for humans.

Oh you mean he have an environmental crisis? Yeah. Pretty much everyone agrees with that. That's not Derrick Jenson's idea.

Also, we have to be careful not to fetishise this "catastrophe." It's not going to be we in the west that suffer, it's going to be people in underdeveloped countries who will bear the brunt of our energy expansions. Capitalism is already creating new energies and new technologies. What we don't have is space. If western Capitalists need/want to turn the equator into a giant solar panel, they will do. The effects of climate change may be more difficult to withstand, but the west has more money and more guns. When the time is right, we can do whatever the fuck what we want with the rest of the world.

What we communists need to do is a) calm the fuck down and b) expedite the downfall of capitalism, because that's the only solution to this problem.

[Ele'ill]

2014: week 1

in a fit of frustrated boredom revleft revisits derrick jensen jokes

[The Feral Underclass]

Has this happened before? I'm sad I missed out.

[Fakeblock]

Derrick Jenson is irrational and uncompromising.

And on many things, he is right.

The biggest catastrophe to hit planet earth was human civilisation. We are not separate from the earth. We are of the earth. We forgot this some time ago and we are about to pay a heavy price for that. Either we don't find an alternative to hydrocarbons to fuel our unsustainable global civilisation, in which case we crash. Or, we do find an alternative, in which case we burn and also take much of the mega flora and fauna down to hell with us.

Either way, it ends badly for humans.

Not really. The earth and its inhabitants experience environmental distasters all the time. This latest one is nothing new and, in any case, the Earth will manage. Perhaps one could say that human civilisation was the biggest catastrophe to hit humanity, but that would be an incredibly one-sided view as well.

[Ele'ill]

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[The Feral Underclass]

I only see a broken picture icon :(

[Ele'ill]

He played for the Oakand Raiders

[The Feral Underclass]

I don't understand. I'm just a silly Brit. If tea isn't involved I get very confused.

[tallguy]

Not really. The earth and its inhabitants experience environmental disasters all the time. This latest one is nothing new and, in any case, the Earth will manage. Perhaps one could say that human civilisation was the biggest catastrophe to hit humanity, but that would be an incredibly one-sided view as well.The last time the earth suffered the rate of species extinction comparable with that which is currently occurring (as a direct result of mankind's actions) was the end of the Perminon. That was the biggest mass extinction event the world ever had at over 90% of all life dying out. We are living through a mass extinction event right now, even bigger than the Perminon. It's just happening outside of the span of a single human lifetime, however, and so we don't see it. And, in any event, I am really quite fond of humans and so would quite like us not to fuck it up for ourselves.

Finally, it would seem that the reason for this mass extinction event is similar to the Permion mass extinction. Namely, climate change. In the Permion extinction, this initially involved a rise in volcanic activity releasing huge quantities of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, in turn causing the oceans to acidify, the sea levels to rise, destertification to advance, the polar caps to melt and, eventually, the release of massive methane clathrates from the ocean floor. Methane clathrate releases are now being tentatively predicted in the climate models and significant methane release is already being detected on the Arctic tundra. Methane is more than 21 time more potent a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. If the oceans floors give up their methane as a result of the current warming, it's game over for much of life.

[Ele'ill]

tbh with some of the stuff that's proposed on this forum i don't think abolishing capitalism alone will allow the biosphere to heal

[The Feral Underclass]

Why would you take RevLeft as a barometer for anything?

[helot]

The last time the earth suffered the rate of species extinction comparable with that which is currently occurring (as a direct result of mankind's actions) was the end of the Perminon. That was the biggest mass extinction event the world ever had at over 90% of all life dying out. We are living through a mass extinction event right now, even bigger than the Perminon. It's just happening outside of the span of a single human lifetime, however, and so we don't see it. And, in any event, I am really quite fond of humans and so would quite like us not to fuck it up for ourselves.

Finally, it would seem that the reason for this mass extinction event is similar to the Permion mass extinction. Namely, climate change. In the Permion extinction, this initially involved a rise in volcanic activity releasing huge quantities of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere, in turn causing the oceans to acidify, the sea levels to rise, destertification to advance, the polar caps to melt and, eventually, the release of massive methane clathrates from the ocean floor. Methane clathrate releases are now being tentatively predicted in the climate models and significant methane release is already being detected on the Arctic tundra. Methane is more than 21 time more potent a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. If the oceans floors give up their methane as a result of the current warming, it's game over for much of life.


I do think capitalism is heading towards a mass extinction event but of the scale of the P-T? Seems a bit hubristic. I don't think humans are that powerful.

[Ele'ill]

helot, regardless if life at some point in the future would begin again, do you think that humans could wipe life off the planet?

[helot]

helot, regardless if life at some point in the future would begin again, do you think that humans could wipe life off the planet?


No i dont as life (not necessarily animal life) is really resiliant. So far life hasnt been wiped off the planet despite extinction events. This of course isn't to say we can't bring loads of organisms to extinction requiring millions of years for the biodiversity to recover but to wipe all life off the planet? It just seems far-fetched to me.

[Ele'ill]

what about nuclear events

[helot]

what about nuclear events


I think radiotrophic fungi would become more prevelant :p

[Os Cangaceiros]

Even if the Earth was completely shrouded in toxic dust which blotted out the Sun, there would still be life in the ocean that doesn't depend on sunlight, and feeds off thermal vents from the Earth's core. ;)

[Ele'ill]

my point though is that when you step back from the discussion- we're talking in degrees of catastrophic human initiated/created change, those are the acceptable scenarios. The concept that the planet is an interconnected network of life and we depend on it, kind of gets put on the back burner, with futuristic and unrealistic industrial-optimism being put up front

[tallguy]

I do think capitalism is heading towards a mass extinction event but of the scale of the P-T? Seems a bit hubristic. I don't think humans are that powerful.

The current mass extinction is occurring at a rate of 13 * the typical background rate of extinction which is approaching that of the Perminan. If all currently endangered species go on to become extinct, then it will be directly comparable to the Perminan extinction event

You can read a scientific report in nature from 2011 that corroborates the above

.nature.com/nature/journal/v471/n7336/full/nature09678.

(you are going to need to put a "www" at the start of the above link and a "com" at the end of it because I am unable to post links here before 100 posts)

I do not actually share the authors' optimism that the ship can be fully turned around. The reason being that we have already set in motion an unstoppable climatic shift to a new equilibrium that will not stop simply because we stop burning fossil fuels. There is still a lot we can do, however, to mitigate the severity of the changes to come.

[Zukunftsmusik]

I thought this was about the German detective

[Fakeblock]

The last time the earth suffered the rate of species extinction comparable with that which is currently occurring (as a direct result of mankind's actions) was the end of the Perminon. That was the biggest mass extinction event the world ever had at over 90% of all life dying out. We are living through a mass extinction event right now, even bigger than the Perminon. It's just happening outside of the span of a single human lifetime, however, and so we don't see it. And, in any event, I am really quite fond of humans and so would quite like us not to fuck it up for ourselves.


Maybe. Your own example, and the fact that you're able to type it out, seems evidence enough that the Earth tends to recover from environmental disasters. Of course we're worried about ourselves and not about the Earth (or plants, or animals for that matter)

[bcbm]

Maybe. Your own example, and the fact that you're able to type it out, seems evidence enough that the Earth tends to recover from environmental disasters. Of course we're worried about ourselves and not about the Earth (or plants, or animals for that matter)

i mean yeah the earth will recover and our mass extinction will open up opportunities for enw species to thrive, but humanity and many/most of the species around us are not going to do so hot.

[The Feral Underclass]

When do you predict this mass extinction event will actually occur?

[bcbm]

it is occurring right now

[The Feral Underclass]

it is occurring right now

Is it though?

[The Feral Underclass]

Okay, I'll rephrase the question: When do you predict all the humans will all be dead?

[bcbm]

Is it though?

yes


Okay, I'll rephrase the question: When do you predict all the humans will all be dead?

highly dependent on how the next one or two hundred years go down.

[The Feral Underclass]

yes

Yes, but is it though? Who says it is, other than you two?


highly dependent on how the next one or two hundred years go down.

Okay, so like enough time to fuck over capitalism? I'm okay with that.

[bcbm]

Yes, but is it though? Who says it is, other than you two?

http://www.mysterium.com/amnh.html
http://www.nbcnews.com/Default.aspx?id=3897120&p1=0#.Uss-QPRDtNg


Okay, so like enough time to fuck over capitalism? I'm okay with that.

i'm not saying we'd be gone in 200 years, i'm saying what happens therein will determine how long we last. if we can sustain a technologically advanced civilization and move beyond earth out into the solar system we have much better chances than if we are sitting here on this rock.

[The Feral Underclass]

http://www.mysterium.com/amnh.html
http://www.nbcnews.com/Default.aspx?id=3897120&p1=0#.Uss-QPRDtNg

Does this so called event actually have any credibility in the wider scientific community? Or rather, do the rest of the scientific community have a consensus that this event is particularly significant for humans? While the IPCC did discuss mass extinction in their report, did it discuss it as a significant event for humans?

[bcbm]

the wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction#Human_influence_on_extinction) summarizes current scientific thought p well i think. they dont really discuss impact on humans, with humans being more of a cause. but i think its obvious that level of extinction would have a huge impact on biodiversity, ecosystems and thus us

[tallguy]

Is it though?
Yes it is. It started about thirty thousand years ago, accelerated about ten thousand years ago and has begun to go off the scale in the last couple of centuries.

[The Feral Underclass]

the wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_extinction#Human_influence_on_extinction) summarizes current scientific thought p well i think. they dont really discuss impact on humans, with humans being more of a cause. but i think its obvious that level of extinction would have a huge impact on biodiversity, ecosystems and thus us

I'm not entirely sure that's true. Not for people in the west.

[The Feral Underclass]

Yes it is.

Yeah, I'm not really convinced. The IPCC report didn't sound particularly militant on the subject. I don't deny something is happening and I don't deny that it's possible, but whether we are currently gripped by one is not something I am confident you are correct about.

[The Feral Underclass]

It started about thirty thousand years ago, accelerated about ten thousand years ago and has begun to go off the scale in the last couple of centuries.

Even if that's true, there doesn't seem to be much panic about it. At least not where humans are concerned.

[tallguy]

Does this so called event actually have any credibility in the wider scientific community? Or rather, do the rest of the scientific community have a consensus that this event is particularly significant for humans? While the IPCC did discuss mass extinction in their report, did it discuss it as a significant event for humans?I take it from the above that your view may be summarised something along the lines of:

a.) You doubt that a mass extinction event is under way.

b.) Even if you do accept that there is a mass extinction event under-way, you are okay with that as long as humans are not a part of that mass extinction event.

If the former, you are wrong, as a significant and growing body of scientific understanding indicates that the planet is indeed undergoing a mass extinction event right now.

If the latter, you are also wrong because we humans are utterly dependent on all of the Earth's other interconnected living systems for our own survival.

I find it interesting how an axiomatic theme of the revolutionary left (if this forum is any kind of bellwether) that it is wholly wrong to be racist or sexist (or, indeed, to regard any humans as being intrinsically better or worse than one another) can so easily sit alongside an arbitrarily drawn line at the boundary of your own species.

More importantly, it is deeply ironic that many people (though not all) who might describe themselves as revolutionary left (again, if this forum is any kind of bellwether) seem desperate to ignore the issue of ecological sustainability for fundamentally the same reason the right do. Both of those political ideologies are, in their modern incarnations (the past hundred years or so), born of the industrial age and are, each in their own way, ideologically bound to the model of industrial growth inherent to that age. The only fundamental differences between them being on the issues of the ownership of the means of production and the manner in which the fruits of that production are shared out. Naturally, being temperamentally, as well as philosophically, left-leaning, my allegiances are to the significant left of that political equation. But, by itself, it is not enough. This planet’s living systems and, by implication, ourselves, are facing a crisis that has not hit the earth for at least sixty million years and quite possibly not for two hundred and fifty million years. Revolutionary left ideology is a necessary but insufficient response to that crisis.

If you think, by itself, it is sufficient, you are wrong.

[The Feral Underclass]

I take it from the above that your view may be summarised something along the lines of:

a.) You doubt that a mass extinction event is under way.

b.) Even if you do accept that there is a mass extinction event under-way, you are okay with that as long as humans are not a part of that mass extinction event.

No, neither of those things.

[tallguy]

No, neither of those things.
Then I would be grateful if you could explain your specific position on this topic as I do not wish to further misinterpret your posts.

[The Feral Underclass]

Then I would be grateful if you could explain your specific position on this topic as I do not wish to further misinterpret your posts.

I don't really have a position other than not being convinced by what I've read so far in this thread. You say there is an increasing body of work -- I don't see where that is. I am also not convinced by the claim that human beings, at least those in the west, are somehow at significant risk.

I am perfectly happy to accept any position if I were presented with some actual evidence, other than a 15 year old paper, wikipedia and an NBC article. The IPCC in their most comprehensive report yet didn't seem to be particularly militant on this subject.

I am not being rhetorical when I say I have not been convinced. I mean that I am have literally not been convinced.

[bcbm]

the sixth extinction (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/05/25/090525fa_fact_kolbert)
are we in the midst of a sixth mass extinction? (http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/03/opinion/sunday/are-we-in-the-midst-of-a-sixth-mass-extinction.html)
has the earth's sixth mass extinction already arrived? (http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v471/n7336/full/nature09678.html%3FWT.ec_id%3DNATURE-..)(abstract)
the sixth extinction (http://www.lli-manassas.org/uploads/Documents/classes/The%20Sixth%20Extinction%20(ActionBioscience).pdf)
are we in the middle of a sixth mass extinction? (http://news.sciencemag.org/2011/03/are-we-middle-sixth-mass-extinction)

I'm not entirely sure that's true. Not for people in the west.

biodiversity is extremely important and the backbone for just about everything that happens on our planet. if certain key parts of say an ocean ecosystem are removed the whole thing goes belly up which would have a devastating impact on fisheries or even the trillions of tiny plants and animals that turn carbon dioxide into oxygen. if bees face a massive die off, human agriculture has a serious problem. things are a lot more precarious than they seem.

[The Feral Underclass]

Don't have any children.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I'm kind of conflicted about the idea of most of the world's population dying off. On the one hand, I'm just going to die anyway, so it's not like it matters. Honestly I don't think the earth is worth much if it can't be exploited for the use of humans...I don't think that, as the progeny of mother earth, I have any particular desire to perpetuate this blue spinning ball in some sort of idealized primordial state.

But at the same time I'm still attached to this idea of human progress, and if everyone dies there will be no more progress, so I suppose one can only be anthropocentric just so much.

[tallguy]

I'm kind of conflicted about the idea of most of the world's population dying off. On the one hand, I'm just going to die anyway, so it's not like it matters. Honestly I don't think the earth is worth much if it can't be exploited for the use of humans...I don't think that, as the progeny of mother earth, I have any particular desire to perpetuate this blue spinning ball in some sort of idealized primordial state.

But at the same time I'm still attached to this idea of human progress, and if everyone dies there will be no more progress, so I suppose one can only be anthropocentric just so much.You don't think the earth is worth much if it can't be exploited for the use of humans?

Are you serious?

If you are, then you are no better than a rabid capitalist except insofar as you've just moved the goalposts of exploitation out a little further to a point where you don't think you will have to suffer the consequences of your actions. Whilst your positioning of those posts may be different, your complete lack of giving a fuck about what happens on the other side of them sounds all to familiar.

Apart from the abject short sightedness of not understanding that to care for the integrity of all of life is to care for oneself (and not in some hippy-dippy, tree-hugging sense, but in very real and material one), what you have stated (if you genuinely mean it and have not simply made an ill-thought statement) makes you and people like you the enemy of all of life on this planet and so makes you my enemy as much as any capitalist.

[tallguy]

Don't have any children.Do I take from the above, that you are now convinced. Or are you merely being facetious and so avoiding addressing the points put to you.

[The Feral Underclass]

Do I take from the above, that you are now convinced. Or are you merely being facetious and so avoiding addressing the points put to you.

You're a very serious individual.

I am convinced that there is something happening, yes.

[Os Cangaceiros]

You don't think the earth is worth much if it can't be exploited for the use of humans?

Are you serious?

If you are, then you are no better than a rabid capitalist except insofar as you've just moved the goalposts of exploitation out a little further to a point where you don't think you will have to suffer the consequences of your actions. Whilst your positioning of those posts may be different, your complete lack of giving a fuck about what happens on the other side of them sounds all to familiar.

Apart from the abject short sightedness of not understanding that to care for the integrity of all of life is to care for oneself (and not in some hippy-dippy, tree-hugging sense, but in very real and material one), what you have stated (if you genuinely mean it and have not simply made an ill-thought statement) makes you and people like you the enemy of all of life on this planet and so makes you my enemy as much as any capitalist.

I believe that the earth should be maintained in order to provide a suitable quality of life for humans, but I'm not particularly married to the idea of the earth having value in-and-of itself, outside of our presence on it.

If that makes me a blood-thirsty capitalist in your eyes, so be it. I don't give a fuck what you think of me *shrug

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I'm kind of conflicted about the idea of most of the world's population dying off. On the one hand, I'm just going to die anyway, so it's not like it matters.

I rather think it does matter. At least to the people doing the dying.

I get that you're not bothered by the fact of your own mortality, but surely the circumstances of your fate matter to you? I would assume that you would rather die at the end of a long and at least somewhat comfortable existence, instead of dying in a couple of decades during a lethal struggle for the necessities of life.

OK, so you personally might luck out and pass away peacefully at the end of a nice life, but does not your sense of empathy move you to think or feel something for those more ill-fated?

To be honest, if I were to come to the closing chapters of my life and it had turned out to be good, I suspect that my pleasure over my good fortune would be marred somewhat if I had any inkling that I might be one of the last precious few humans on this planet to have had enjoyed a better and richer life than my forebears.


Honestly I don't think the earth is worth much if it can't be exploited for the use of humans...I don't think that, as the progeny of mother earth, I have any particular desire to perpetuate this blue spinning ball in some sort of idealized primordial state.

But at the same time I'm still attached to this idea of human progress, and if everyone dies there will be no more progress, so I suppose one can only be anthropocentric just so much.

I'm with you here. Which is why I'm kind of puzzled by your ambivalence. Sure, the notion of humanity becoming extinct, especially after one has already passed away, is too big and abstract to be viscerally appreciated in the way that the every day horrors of life passing through one's sight can be. But certainly my own intellect revolts at the idea of dismissing the vast bulk of humanity, all those billions of unique perspectives, on the basis of mere mortality.

[Ele'ill]

Yeah honestly though this ties into animal liberation where some hold an ecclesiastical cult fascination with not just the continuation of humans as a species but the extreme elevated quality of life (me too, duh) because we understand emotional distress and physical pain, alienation, mental health etc., things that many other species also feel and experience, but simultaneously many folks hold this ecclesiastical cult fascination with disregarding these things for some despite knowing or understanding the horrors faced

[bcbm]

Don't have any children.

shoudn't be a problem


I'm not particularly married to the idea of the earth having value in-and-of itself, outside of our presence on it.

this is as far as we know the only place in the entire universe was life has developed which i think gives some value to the planet as a whole and all the things on it. certainly its worth preserving even as a curiosity.

[Os Cangaceiros]

I rather think it does matter. At least to the people doing the dying.

I get that you're not bothered by the fact of your own mortality, but surely the circumstances of your fate matter to you? I would assume that you would rather die at the end of a long and at least somewhat comfortable existence, instead of dying in a couple of decades during a lethal struggle for the necessities of life.

OK, so you personally might luck out and pass away peacefully at the end of a nice life, but does not your sense of empathy move you to think or feel something for those more ill-fated?

To be honest, if I were to come to the closing chapters of my life and it had turned out to be good, I suspect that my pleasure over my good fortune would be marred somewhat if I had any inkling that I might be one of the last precious few humans on this planet to have had enjoyed a better and richer life than my forebears.

Well part of it has to do with the feeling of nihilism and ambivalence I feel towards my own life, which, admittedly, is my problem. I led a pretty cushy existence for most of my life but my prospects looking into the future don't look too good. I will have to struggle just to continue living, but that's just how it worked out for me. If I died in the near future and could somehow have a flashback moment of my life, I'd be pretty satisfied with it, I think. That's the honest truth. Of course, if I could avoid death I'd probably do it, simply out of a base animal-instinct of self-preservation.

Would I be bothered by the prospects of the next generations having a hard time into the future? Maybe. But then I'll be dead and it won't matter. I don't know, maybe I'm a sociopath. I don't think so, though. I usually respond empathetically to human suffering. It's just that the idea of billions of people being erased from the planet is still a rather abstract thought, albeit horrific. (As are, I'll admit, some of my ideas relating to the human race, but oh well, we all need our ideological opiates I guess.)

[Os Cangaceiros]

this is as far as we know the only place in the entire universe was life has developed which i think gives some value to the planet as a whole and all the things on it. certainly its worth preserving even as a curiosity.

But it won't be a curiosity if there's no one or nothing to appreciate it as such, would it?

[bcbm]

But it won't be a curiosity if there's no one or nothing to appreciate it as such, would it?

the creatures given the chance to hang out on it and do their thing can appreciate it well enough, that is its own reward i think.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Meh I guess

[bcbm]

life is cool, i'd rather have it then not. shrug

[The Feral Underclass]

“Should I kill myself, or have a cup of coffee?”
- Albert Camus.


Apparently he really said that.

[Art Vandelay]

“Should I kill myself, or have a cup of coffee?”
- Albert Camus.


Apparently he really said that.

Pretty sure its from 'the stranger,' but I could be wrong cause its been a while since I've read Camus. One of my favorite authors and one of my favorite quotes as well. It kinda plays into his whole 'absurdist' philosophy.

[The Feral Underclass]

It's definitely not in The Stranger. I don't think he actually ever said it.

[Art Vandelay]

It's definitely not in The Stranger. I don't think he actually ever said it.

A quick google search and I found this:


[Note: There is no documented evidence that Camus ever wrote or said this, aside from Barry Schwartz's uncited mention in The Paradox of Choice. It is likely falsely attributed.]

Seems you're right.

[Rugged Collectivist]

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/002/467/272/derrickjensen_display_image.jpg?1343877746http://www.revleft.com/vb/data:image/jpeg;base64,/9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wCEAAkGBxQSEhUUExQWFhQXGBwYGBcXFxwdHRgeGRkYFxYbIB gaHighGholHSAXITEhJSkrLi8uGiAzODMsNygtLywBCgoKBQUF DgUFDisZExkrKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKy srKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrK//AABEIAMUBAAMBIgACEQEDEQH/xAAcAAABBAMBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAUGBwIDCAH/xABTEAACAgAEAwQFCAUJAwgLAAABAgMRAAQSIQUGMRMiQVEHFD JhcQgjNUJzgZHRFVJTksIzYnKCobGyweMkk9MYQ1RVlKLS8BYX 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That's a different guy. I looked it up and was very disappointed.

[DasFapital]

Salmon are a super exploited class