If you took control of Cuba, what would you do?

[JudasMaiden]

What would you do if you took control of Cuba by any means? Would you keep it as the same system, change it a little bit, or radically change it?

I personally would abolish the state, give the workers' self management, personalize the education system, and get rid of the currency system itself for an alternative economic system such as a gift economy.

[Full Metal Bolshevik]

Abolishing currency would not work. Because you'd be unable to import anything except by direct trade.

[Radio Spartacus]

Socialism in one country, and within a couple miles of the states! Perhaps rethink your plan

[JudasMaiden]

For the transition, I would keep the currencies just to trade. I would give workers' control in the form of Titoist workers' control through for the transition. Basically making my country into a caribbean version of "Yugoslavia" during the transition, just with more personal freedoms.

[Bolshevik Sickle]

Cuba is an "okay" country. If I were to change anything in the country I would just take off their internet restrictions.

[Bostana]

Step down and let the people run it

[Bolshevik Sickle]

Step down and let the people run it
http://pre.cloudfront.goodinc.com/posts/full_1294441502FoodRiotsAlgeria.jpg
How is that suppose to work?
You're going to need some government dude.

[Taters]

http://pre.cloudfront.goodinc.com/posts/full_1294441502FoodRiotsAlgeria.jpg
How is that suppose to work?
You're going to need some government dude.

You're right, of course. We need to keep that rabble down or it'll be anarchy!

[GiantMonkeyMan]

Well running a country isn't like a Total War game or something, it's not just a single individual pulling all the strings, and I wouldn't want the position anyway.

[reb]

What would you do if you took control of Cuba by any means? Would you keep it as the same system, change it a little bit, or radically change it?

I personally would abolish the state, give the workers' self management, personalize the education system, and get rid of the currency system itself for an alternative economic system such as a gift economy.

Ignoring all of the idealism in this thread, which I could go on about, abolishing currency doesn't make communism. The law of value can still operate perfectly fine without currency thanks to the the commodity form. People could trade in wheel barrows for all that it matters. You can reduce all of the other things that are mentioned to this and the opposition to your ideas are the ruling party. Hence this thread. Reminds of stalinists crying about revisionism as if it wasn't idealism.

[Full Metal Bolshevik]

An objective answer, I'd say open borders and internet access.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Turn it into a rogue state like Libya under Gaddafi before the temporary thaw in relations with Washington. Ride around Havana in a military half-track with aviator sunglasses and military fatigues. Fund a garden variety of wing-nut groups and live in Mobutu Sese-Seko-esque opulence & hedonism before my inevitable assassination.

[Prometeo liberado]

Step down and let the people run it
Which "people", these...?


http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4534129511629669&pid=1.9&m=&w=300&h=300&p=0http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4798501912578423&w=262&h=173&c=7&rs=1&pid=1.7http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4536702177249338&w=235&h=167&c=7&rs=1&pid=1.7http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4937723262534597&w=236&h=168&c=7&rs=1&pid=1.7

[Art Vandelay]

I'd mummify Castro when he passes away, like Lenin, but instead of putting him into a mausoleum I'd turn his mummified body into the official/eternal head of state. I'd totally bring it with me whenever I went anywhere and would maybe even sell news stories to the National Enquirer about how its a conspiracy that Castro died and he's really immortal. We'd get our picture taken around town and shit. I'd definitely continue on with his look and rock military fatigues and smoke cohiba's like they're going out of style. Next I'd legalize all forms of drugs and debauchery and pretty much just party with my peeps till the next bay of pigs came rolling along.

[PC LOAD LETTER]

I'd mummify Castro when he passes away, like Lenin, but instead of putting him into a mausoleum I'd turn his mummified body into the official/eternal head of state. I'd totally bring it with me whenever I went anywhere and would maybe even sell news stories to the National Enquirer about how its a conspiracy that Castro died and he's really immortal. We'd get our picture taken around town and shit. I'd definitely continue on with his look and rock military fatigues and smoke cohiba's like they're going out of style. Next I'd legalize all forms of drugs and debauchery and pretty much just party with my peeps till the next bay of pigs came rolling along.
can I come, too

[Art Vandelay]

can I come, too

You can be my right hand man. I'll be commander in chief and how does head of the party planning committee (which will essentially replace the military) sound, for you?

[PC LOAD LETTER]

You can be my right hand man. I'll be commander in chief and how does head of the party planning committee (which will essentially replace the military) sound, for you?
Oh hell yes, this motherfucker's going down!

[Yuppie Grinder]

if a nerdy white trash wingnut from the midwestern united states became the leader of cuba i'd just get removed peacefully by party bureaucrats 20-30 minutes in to my rule

[Lokomotive293]

Cuba is an "okay" country. If I were to change anything in the country I would just take off their internet restrictions.

How would you convince the US to allow Cuba access to their fiber optic cables? I wonder.

To answer the question: Improve ideological education, and maybe, if I knew more about economics, I would do things differently as well, but I can't tell that for sure.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

Perhaps this should be moved to non-political?

Honestly, if someone gave me the keys to a fucking country, no way would I step down or whatever. I'd rule in my own self-interest and have a great fucking time doing it. I don't even believe anybody who says otherwise; the history of capitalist politics is the history of people in power acting in their own self-interest. It never changes, which is why we should just abolish the oppressive institution that is the state, it is rotten and consumes the people who come to attempt to manage it, whether they are Adolf Hitler or the fairy godmother. It's just a law of how things are!

[motion denied]

That's not how the things work, politics are not almighty (quite the contrary). Full idealism 'round here.

[reb]

Which "people", these...?


http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4534129511629669&pid=1.9&m=&w=300&h=300&p=0http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4798501912578423&w=262&h=173&c=7&rs=1&pid=1.7http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4536702177249338&w=235&h=167&c=7&rs=1&pid=1.7http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4937723262534597&w=236&h=168&c=7&rs=1&pid=1.7

I like that by implication, you said you distrust the proletariat. Are you a stalin fan by chance?

[Il Medico]

Well, if all my hours of experience ruling Caribbean island nations in Tropico has any bearing, then I'd most likely build statues of myself pretty much goddamn everywhere.

[tachosomoza]

Well, if all my hours of experience ruling Caribbean island nations in Tropico has any bearing, then I'd most likely build statues of myself pretty much goddamn everywhere.

You'd also kick ass with an unstoppable military of 35 troops. Also, you wouldn't have to worry about the US, they'd just send a few ships to go around and around the island and will go away and leave you totally and entirely alone if you let the Russians build a military base.

[Psycho P and the Freight Train]

Honestly, I hardly know anything about Cuba nowadays. Under Castro, I know a few things, but what has Raul done? I really haven't researched it and I feel like Cuba is slowly embracing a market economy, yeah?

Castro was a complete twat, but Cuba had such successful economic reform that must be acknowledged. You have to admire the fact that the lives of Cubans improved immensely. However, Castro was extremely anti gay which is very hard for me to get past. Also, he arbitrarily imprisoned a lot of people and crushed any criticism of the government. I don't like censorship, and I especially condemn his extreme internet censorship. It's a cowardly move. So I have mixed feelings on Cuba.

[Comrade Jacob]

I think we all agree with a lot more workers' control.
They have started doing this but: more education of the public of Marxism.

[Rosso]

Isn't it more Marxist to first let the country go fully capitalist till its ripe for socialism? I think that all the problems with the failed revolutions have the same problem while they didn't meet the Marxist demands. They started in my opinion good with the overthrowing of the dictatorschap but better should had installed a democratic capitalistic system whereout eventually after years could come a socialistic revolution.

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[Rosso]

Excuse my formulation btw, I was in a hurry

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[The Fonz]

Encourage the formation of workers councils in every workplace which collectively within a city/town and province/county elect representatives for their district, then these representatives will vote on who will represent the workers at the national level. Thus making a system where workers representatives check the power of the Communist Party and share power with the party at each level of government. Institutionalize and formalize the previously mention changes with a constitution that has enforcement mechanisms. Purge the Communist Party of all people who want to follow the example of China, possibly including Raul. Make the 3rd declaration of Havana supporting revolution in every country and region, while arresting and deporting Juan Manuel Santos and telling the FARC to continue fighting with Cuban support. Then prepare for an invasion attempt by the US and or NATO.

[Ceallach_the_Witch]

I'd muddle my way through trying to keep things as stable as possible most likely, I suspect the main thing I'd do would be to remove censorship and at least attempt to maintain a reasonable quality of public services/living and so on. I don't think i'd kid myself that I could establish world socialism (or indeed, anything particularly meaningful at all) from Cuba. I doubt i'd last very long.

[tallguy]

Perhaps this should be moved to non-political?

Honestly, if someone gave me the keys to a fucking country, no way would I step down or whatever. I'd rule in my own self-interest and have a great fucking time doing it. I don't even believe anybody who says otherwise; the history of capitalist politics is the history of people in power acting in their own self-interest. It never changes, which is why we should just abolish the oppressive institution that is the state, it is rotten and consumes the people who come to attempt to manage it, whether they are Adolf Hitler or the fairy godmother. It's just a law of how things are!I actually agree with all of this. and yet, what alternative is there to a state.

Ten thousand years ago and before, when humanity consisted of subsistence hunter gatherers, all that a man owned could be more or less carried on his back. And all that he owned, he needed to survive,. Thus, if anyone tried to nick some of his stuff, he would be highly motivated to fight to the death to keep it. This didn't stop others from trying to steal it, particularly at the inter-tribal level of conflict. Nevertheless, the only point in nicking someone else's stuff is if you were desperate enough despite the risks.

And then we invented farming about 10,000 years ago. at which point, the calculations changed. for the first time in human history, surpluses were created, and this is when all the shit started. Imagine you are an early farmer back then when there were no civilisations, just scattered small communities. Imagine if some gang of thugs knock on your door in the early hours come harvest time and demands 10% of everything you have produced. You could elect to fight them to the death for that 10%, or you could just shrug your shoulders and given them it in the knowledge that they wont come back for another year. You may even be incentivised to give them it if they also promise to "protect" you from any other extortion gangs demanding money. At least, that way, your losses are predictable..right?

The thing is, though, although 10% is not very much, given that this gang would have gone and done the same with every farm in area, pretty soon those 10% added up and this gang became the wealthiest group around. This, in turn, allowed them to do things that were never achievable before. it allowed them to raise armies, to build cities, penal systems, judiciaries, codes of law and all the rest. Eventually, their position became legally and culturally entrenched and legitimised via, among other things, the invention of state sanctioned religion which put a policeman in everyone's head. The taking of the surpluses no longer went by the ugly name of "extortion" and, instead, came to be know as "tax". The beginnings of "civilisation", in other words.

The bastards have basically been in charge ever since.

In the modern, secular world, those old religions have been largely replaced with a variety of "isms". But they serve the same purpose. They serve to train the extortionees to simply accept things as being an expression of the natural order of things and to not question. The faces of those thugs has changed endlessly over the millennia, but the structures they inhabit have remained and grown.

The point I am getting at is that as long as there are surpluses, there will be gangs who try and succeed in creaming off the surplus of everyone else. Since we can't avoid that, we must then at least try and codify and ameliorate that process. I fully accept that it is a process almost certainly doomed to failure. The alternative, however, is somewhere like Somalia.

[juljd]

What I'd want is more workers' control, more of some kind of grassroots democracy from below, remove censorship and open up for more public debate, fight the influence of machismo, open the internet as much as possible, and try improve housing and the availability to necessary products somehow.

[Ceallach_the_Witch]

actually i'd probably lock myself up in the presidential palace with as much rum as i could get my hands on.

[Diirez]

I would open the borders, give the people civil and political rights, allow other parties to exist, weaken the totalitarian Leninist government with a Trotskyist democracy. Let Cuba be a free nation for the workers!

[motion denied]

I would open the borders, give the people civil and political rights, allow other parties to exist, weaken the totalitarian Leninist government with a Trotskyist democracy. Let Cuba be a free nation for the workers!

I'm no Cuba apologist, but if you remove trotskyist (what's a trot democracy anyway) from the comment, you sound like a full blown liberal.

Also, 'totalitarian' is a buzzword used by liberals to characterize anything other than bourgeois democracy.

[Remus Bleys]

I would open the borders,
good

give the people civil and political rights,
which "people"? The proletariat, the bourgeois, both, neither? And its nice that you give them rights, instead of them taking it for themselves.

allow other parties to exist,
I wrote this (http://www.revleft.com/vb/showpost.php?p=2703085&postcount=299)

weaken the totalitarian Leninist government
1. The proletarian dictatorship is totalitarian, this should be freely admitted. Communists need to establish a totalitarian state appartus.
2. Cuba isn't leninist.

with a Trotskyist democracy.
I do not think you understand Trotskyism.

Let Cuba be a free nation for the workers!
Why nations? Communists are not nationalists, they are internationalists. Fuck nations.

[Lokomotive293]

I would open the borders

Too late, the borders are open already.


give the people civil and political rights

What civil and political rights are there that the Cuban people don't have?


allow other parties to exist

Why? In Cuba, you elect people, not parties, and the role of the CP is exactly what it should be: It is the revolutionary vanguard of the proletariat.


weaken the totalitarian Leninist government

Ooh-ooh, those evil Leninists!


with a Trotskyist democracy.

Yeah, whatever.



Let Cuba be a free nation for the workers!

"The proletariat needs the state, not in the interests of freedom but in order to hold down its adversaries, and as soon as it becomes possible to speak of freedom the state as such ceases to exist" - Friedrich Engels (= evil totalitarian Leninist :ohmy: )

[Il Medico]

You'd also kick ass with an unstoppable military of 35 troops. Also, you wouldn't have to worry about the US, they'd just send a few ships to go around and around the island and will go away and leave you totally and entirely alone if you let the Russians build a military base.
Nah, mate. Ain't got time for any of that shit. Statues don't build themselves, y'know?

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

I would get myself toppled by American intervention. Damn Yanqui bastards always harshing my buzz.

[Brutus]

I'd make my Scottie Dog a minister, make deals with third-world nations in order to secretly invade America like something out of Red Dawn (that was w/ Cubans and Russian, right?).
Also I'd abolish all drug laws except those which punish dishonest dope dealers (HST style).

[SensibleLuxemburgist]

Luxemburgist democracy FTW. Remove bureaucratic elements of Castro's Communist Party of Cuba and then implement a multi-party democracy with open elections for all. However, any party participating in the election must respect the tenets of communism and democracy that Luxemburg had instilled in the participants of the 1918-1919 German Revolution and those who followed after in the vein of left communism. In addition, open Cuba up to non-antagonistic diplomatic relations with all countries of the world while participating in non-exploitative international trade with obvious government-imposed trade restrictions. In addition, all materials imported would be distributed equally among all Cubans while materials exported would induce wages that would also be distributed equally among all Cubans. Finally, our government would also participate in some environmentally-conscious shenanigans :grin:....

[Comrade #138672]

I think you would end up managing it like a state capitalist, not a revolutionary socialist.

Which means that nothing would change.

So I voted for "Keep it the same as it is." Not that I want that, but honestly, it can hardly become anything else, no matter how well-intentioned I would be.

[Marshal of the People]

I would create billions of battle droids and use them to take over the world [insert evil laugh]!

[DasFapital]

I would turn it into a tourist attraction for revleft users.

[Sinister Intents]

I would turn it into a tourist attraction for revleft users.

Or it could be turned into a refuge for leftists to gather.

[TheWannabeAnarchist]

I'd summon Che Guevara's spirit to fight a 1,000 man bourgeois ghost army!

What, you said "if you had control of Cuba." If I had complete power over Cuba, I could bring back the dead who are located there, right?

I hate despots and don't want to "control" anyone.:laugh:

[Sinister Intents]

I'd summon Che Guevara's spirit to fight a 1,000 man bourgeois ghost army!

What, you said "if you had control of Cuba." If I had complete power over Cuba, I could bring back the dead who are located there, right?

I hate despots and don't want to "control" anyone.:laugh:

I'll use my witchcraft to reserect that Antifa/Antiimp ghost army!!!!!:grin:

[Crabbensmasher]

First thing I would do is call up Russia.

"Hey guys, is that whole missile thing still on the plate?"

"Uh--"

"Yeah, yeah, I know what you're thinking. Yeah. we screwed up really bad last time, but this time it'll be different! I swear!"

"Uh... Wha--"

"Great, thanks so much. Can you do the installation on monday? - Aww, no, hold on, wait, my wife is saying monday isn't good - thursday? Thursday, no wait. You know what, I'm going to have to push this back into next week. (It goes on from there)