France Approves 75% Tax on the Rich

[Comrade #138672]

France’s new government has pushed for a new tax rate for high income earners that will start at 75%. This week France’s constitutional council gave it the green light. Say bonjour to the “millionaire tax.”

A higher tax rate for the rich was a campaign issue for French president Francois Hollande and after his election he and his administration have been fighting hard for the policy. That fight seemed to be lost when the constitutional court which is comprised of judges and former French presidents, ruled that taxing wealthy individuals at such a high rate was unfair and violated the constitution. Hollande regrouped and this year turned his attention towards corporations instead.

The new law would levy taxes from those who earned wages of above one million euros in 2013 and 2014. That tax, coupled with the extra taxes would make a millionaire’s tax rate around 75 percent.

France has been struggling with budget deficits similar to the United States, but unlike the U.S. it has decided that instead of austerity, it would look towards higher revenue. Instead of cutting social programs and hurting the working class, the French government has looked towards the very wealthy. The french people seem to overwhelmingly approve of taxing the rich at higher amounts.

Unsurprisingly, France’s biggest companies (i.e. the ones with the most to lose) are enraged by the new tax policy.

...Continue reading here: http://iacknowledge.net/france-approves-75-tax-on-the-rich/

This [bourgeois] policy seems to run counter to the neoliberal ideology. Does it signify a return to Keynesian politics? Or is it just exceptional? What to make of it?

[Sinister Intents]

Continue reading here: http://iacknowledge.net/france-approves-75-tax-on-the-rich/

This [bourgeois] policy seems to run counter to the neoliberal ideology. Does it signify a return to Keynesian politics? Or is it just exceptional? What to make of it?

You know I'm too tired to make a really good post on this, but I think this is good in a way.... They should give the rich a 99% tax in stead, but where and who does the tax money go to? Whos getting rich off taxing the rich?
edit: Ok, I reread this, I'm just going to go to sleep and let more eloquent people discuss this

[DOOM]

The money goes to the bourgoeise state.
Social-democrats are so naive.
I mean, it's fine that the rich get more taxed :grin: but I don't believe this will change anything.
The only thing that could save France and the world is a socialist revolution.

[Luisrah]

From what I've heard Hollande lost much credit for not doing most of the things he promised. He supposedly is the "leftist alternative", or so people thought. And sometimes they have to do these things to earn back their credibility (eventhough that money is gonna end back again in the rich people's pockets)

[cyu]

I would give the corporations a choice:

1. Accept high taxation
2. Avoid new taxes by transferring control to employees.

...I bet that would shut them up :lol:

[GiantMonkeyMan]

If France is anything like Britain, there'll be a million loopholes for capitalist individuals or corporations to utilise that ensure they won't have any taxes at all.

[GerrardWinstanley]

If France is anything like Britain, there'll be a million loopholes for capitalist individuals or corporations to utilise that ensure they won't have any taxes at all.They will, but don't expect income tax hikes to affect it that much. The argument that companies will be companies and seek to avoid as much tax as possible is a double-edged sword for the Business As Usual lobby.

[Sabot Cat]

I would give the corporations a choice:

1. Accept high taxation
2. Avoid new taxes by transferring control to employees.

...I bet that would shut them up :lol:

This would be the gist of my strategy if I were a reformist. Either accept workers' self-management or be hit with hefty taxes while autonomous proletarian organizations are exempted or receive significant breaks. Even as a revolutionary, I would definitely support such a measure if it were to be proposed anywhere.

[tuwix]

Continue reading here: http://iacknowledge.net/france-approves-75-tax-on-the-rich/



But what's the problem to avoid income tax? :)
The real solution is a taxation of all possessions. If it applied properly, it would be very difficult to avoid.

[IBleedRed]

This tax will have no positive effect at best, and at worst, will harm the French economy.


From what I've heard Hollande lost much credit for not doing most of the things he promised. He supposedly is the "leftist alternative", or so people thought. And sometimes they have to do these things to earn back their credibility (eventhough that money is gonna end back again in the rich people's pockets)
I hope to see a shift further left on the part of the majority of the French population as more and more people are disappointed with the "socialist" social democrat Hollande. The French Communist Party is not a genuine revolutionary party, but I do think a major victory on their part electorally would go a long way to bringing discussion of socialism and Marxist thought back into the mainstream, and that is an important development in itself. I can easily see France as the "birth place" of a world revolution.

[TheWannabeAnarchist]

It's not good enough, but to put things in perspective, here in the U.S.A. some folks are not only against a 75% income tax on the rich, they're against any taxes on the rich at all.:laugh:

I agree with IBleedRed. From the French Revolution to the Paris Commune to May 1968, France has always had a strong spirit of rebellion. When world revolution does come, I'm sure they'll get their portion finished quickly. Vive la France et vive la rèvolution internationale!

Perhaps I'm going overboard with the rhetoric, but you get the idea.

[Griswald]

This policy will have unintended negative effects for the French working class.

Taxing income only hurts workers; the wealthy live off their savings and assets.

[The Jay]

So the socialist party in France is almost at the level of FDR then huh?

[Bea Arthur]

This tax will have no positive effect at best, and at worst, will harm the French economy.


I hope to see a shift further left on the part of the majority of the French population as more and more people are disappointed with the "socialist" social democrat Hollande. The French Communist Party is not a genuine revolutionary party, but I do think a major victory on their part electorally would go a long way to bringing discussion of socialism and Marxist thought back into the mainstream, and that is an important development in itself. I can easily see France as the "birth place" of a world revolution.

Only a Leninist cultist can actually convince himself into believing that taking more money from the wealthy in order to provide social services for the less wealthy is harmful to an economy. Where did you get your economics degree BleedRed? Oral Roberts University? Like a typical Leninist, if a movement doesn't adhere to your exact specifications from the get-go, you want to disparage it and sabotage it.

[The Intransigent Faction]

Only a Leninist cultist can actually convince himself into believing that taking more money from the wealthy in order to provide social services for the less wealthy is harmful to an economy. Where did you get your economics degree BleedRed? Oral Roberts University? Like a typical Leninist, if a movement doesn't adhere to your exact specifications from the get-go, you want to disparage it and sabotage it.

The irony...it hurts. Leninists are the ones who most strongly want "the state" as a bureaucratic organ of control to "provide" social services.

Anyway, tendencies aside, you don't have to be a Leninist or an Anarchist or whatever-the-hell to understand that a sustained transfer of wealth out of the pockets of the rich and into social services runs counter to the logic (or lack thereof) of capitalism. It's like swimming against a rip tide. That's why we must move past it rather than reform it.

From a capitalist point of view, it IS harmful to the economy...because the whole basis of that economy is extracting value from the workers and filling their own pockets, not putting it towards peoples' basic needs or wants. These things may be imposed on the system as something counter to its internal logic, but that doesn't make them compatible with it for a sustained period once you run out of steam and are no longer able to struggle against the tide that rolls back those gains.

In short, there's nothing inherently Leninist at all about the idea that reforms which run counter to the capitalist's modus operandi are not sustainable in the long-term and so energy must be focused on revolutionary change. It's precisely because such programs "hurt the economy" that they may be useful for exposing this fact of capitalism, but not if we accept the idea that capitalism and a push to meet people's needs are somehow not contradictory forces.

[Hrafn]

Three guesses to which party doesn't win the next election, folks.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

Three guesses to which party doesn't win the next election, folks.

It's not like it will matter. They're the same, the lot of them. Pressing austerity, pressing cuts, pressing liberalisation, doesn't make a difference which of them rule. This is only a temporary restoration: taxes of this level and beyond were not uncommon until the 1980's, anyway.

[Oulian]

Hollande said it's an exceptional taxation. Basically it was a promise he gave when he was not yet elected and that Le Front de Gauche (party gathering most communists) got 11% of votes which is a surprising score because when Melenchon took the lead he had around 3% intentions of votes. Hollande had to show himself as a "socialist" hence this promise. The first time he tried to make it happen, le Conseil Constitutionnel (the assembly in charge of making sure everything fits the constitution of France) stopped the law considering it is confiscatory and that the right to possess is not being respected.

The Parti Socialiste in France is liberal, they just care more about stuff like healthcare, wellfare, education, ...
Many dislike Hollande without any reason, they blame him for everything going wrong. Le Front de Gauche isn't revolutionary and its leader was part of the PS and rooted for the European Union, it's the most present "extreme left" ring though.

I have to admit that this tax made sense in Melenchon's program but here it is just a way for Hollande to try to appear as an autority, a man who fulfills his promises, ... Rich people hated him already before because he stopped many presents offered to them by Sarkozy, who is the Robin Hood of bourgeoisie (stealing from poors to gift to the rich). Sarkozy was somewhat popular because he knew how to play with racism, facist tendencies in the country and satisfying them.

[Ritzy Cat]

I personally don't care what happens to bourgeois in the capitalist system.
The thing is, this money, either way, ends up back in their pockets since the funding for the government programs and agencies are still being paid for, thus favoring them anyway.

[Oulian]

I personally don't care what happens to bourgeois in the capitalist system.
The thing is, this money, either way, ends up back in their pockets since the funding for the government programs and agencies are still being paid for, thus favoring them anyway.
Can you explain it better? People working for the state don't have that high salaries, they have a lot of advantages. Teachers are part of the middle class but a deputy earns much more and pays almost nothing (clothes, train tickets, are paid by the State, ...) to be sure they are not corrupted.


Anyway this tax is only for the salary over 1 million euros which is more than enough to live!! I remember the emphasis was made on the money earned thanks to the capital owned (rents of.houses basically) to encourage them to sell what they don't need so the price of flats can drop.

[IBleedRed]

Only a Leninist cultist can actually convince himself into believing that taking more money from the wealthy in order to provide social services for the less wealthy is harmful to an economy. Where did you get your economics degree BleedRed? Oral Roberts University? Like a typical Leninist, if a movement doesn't adhere to your exact specifications from the get-go, you want to disparage it and sabotage it.

As long as you play by the rules of capitalism, any "reform" you attempt will somehow be negated by the capitalist class. Sometimes they do it slowly: you raise the wage, you raise taxes, and they ship jobs overseas. Without a revolutionary government that is able to smash capitalism and remove the authority of the capitalist class, that is, remove its economic power, your reforms won't do a whole lot of good.

[SyndAnon]

This is a good start, but we must remember it is only the beginning, leftists of all natures need to show their support to France, and encourage support and change, if they can succeed, we can succeed anywhere else.

[IBleedRed]

This is a good start, but we must remember it is only the beginning, leftists of all natures need to show their support to France, and encourage support and change, if they can succeed, we can succeed anywhere else.
I would be ecstatic if a workers' revolution happened in France and I am more optimistic about France than the United States, but this tax is not even a "good start". It's not good news to me. It's a sad attempt at reformism that will probably end up being a failure and that failure will get blamed on "socialism".

[Brotto Rühle]

Everyone else love Reagan like me? Home boy raised taxes remember!? Honestly people...the liberal hands free orgasm that is a capitalist government raising taxes is just tedious to read...

[SyndAnon]

When a country has been destroyed by a long lasting history of dirty, horrid greed, and capitalism, reform can cause a horrible backlash, even blind opposition but that doesn't mean it is bad. I think once it really goes into effect, we will see the economy in France at least slightly begin to turn around, if not a huge change in the positive.

Yes, if it does fail, it will be chalked up as a blow to socialism, but that is a risk you take by trying to fundamentally change an archaic system with five hundred years(randomly picked an amount of time) of history.

[piet11111]

75% tax on wages of over a million ?

:laugh:

The rich dont earn wages people if this affects more then a 1000 people i would be surprised.

[Sea]

When a country has been destroyed by a long lasting history of dirty, horrid greed, and capitalism, reform can cause a horrible backlash, even blind opposition but that doesn't mean it is bad. I think once it really goes into effect, we will see the economy in France at least slightly begin to turn around, if not a huge change in the positive.

Yes, if it does fail, it will be chalked up as a blow to socialism, but that is a risk you take by trying to fundamentally change an archaic system with five hundred years(randomly picked an amount of time) of history.
1. Unfortunately we're not concerned with the "health" (ability to make the rich richer) of economies.

2. This doesn't radically change a single thing. The basic laws of capitalism still operate in all their glory.