What's the deal about Cuba?

[Ritzy Cat]

Hello comrades. I have been looking into some historical context of where socialism has been "applied" and I have read much discussion on Cuba.

What exactly has Cuba done right, and what have they done wrong, from a leftist perspective?

[Bala Perdida]

Well, I guess my favorite thing about left leaning governments in Latin America is how they always crush their right-wing predecessors by raising the living standards with their welfare programs. In Cuba they've done this by giving kids free milk, free meals to people at school and on the job, and some of the best health care in the world. I guess I like the universal housing and free education too. None the less, Cuba is still oppressive to those who like to express themselves through speech and certain actions. Scarcity still exists to an extent, internet is found most accessible through the black market, and the Castro dynasty still rules over Cuba.
Still, I have admire the Castro brothers as revolutionaries, even the bourgeois exiles admit they supported the overthrow of Batista.
But as an Anarchist, as much as I like Chavez, Castro, Evo, or Daniel; I believe that only the people can govern the people.

[RedWaves]

Well, Cuba overthrew the imperialistic dictatorship by the U.S. and established themselves as a country that was free from their rule.


Apart from that and America constantly trying to provoke war with them afterwards by use of proxy means and terrorist groups, and not to mention stuff like the Bay of Pigs and the bombings of Cuba under John F Kennedy.


The reason there is an embargo is to cripple them. They do not like the fact that a country 90 miles off the coast of Florida managed to free themselves from the imperialistic octopus so that's basically why America hates them and creates all this propaganda bullshit about how they are so bad and people have it so bad in Cuba, even though America themselves tried to invade the country and wanted to take it back so bad.

Cuba can be looked at as one of the greatest example of what revolution can do to overthrow imperialism



http://marxists.org/history/cuba/subject/missile-crisis/index.htm


To punish Cuba, they have all these embargo laws around the world to stop them from getting supplies and so forth. That's why Cuba is so poor, it's not because Castro was some big dictator and made them all poor like American propaganda claims. They barely get any supply at all from the rest of the world and they still manage to have a very high health care system and in fact have the highest life expectancy of all of Latin America, and the lowest crime rate.


It's very impressive to see how Cuba manages without all the aid that other countries receive.

[tuwix]

What exactly has Cuba done right, and what have they done wrong, from a leftist perspective?

What was done right, it was said in this topic. I'll write what was done wrong. Firstly, all leaders of Cuban revolution had pretty weak knowledge about economics. "Che" took very prominent economic positions although he was admitting he isn't very good in these things. Finally, they received soviet instructors. And it was just obvious that they repeat all Russian errors. And they did. Economy was nationalized instead of socializing. The new bureaucracy became a new ruling class replacing old bourgeoisie.

And Fidel now and in the past doesn't seem to be bothered that his quality of life is on completely other scale than life's quality of his own compatriots. He still says bout something that is non-existing sin primitive communism time in Cuba, about socialism...

[TheWannabeAnarchist]

Tuwix hit it right on the head. If you want to know what the "deal is" with Cuba, here's my concise and humbke opinion:

1. Cuba is a country with at least basic trappings of socialism, but they're only trappings. Key industries are nationalized, but not under the direct control of workers.

2. It's not an evil empire, but there is a great deal of corruption, and there are various flaws in their government. The state runs the press, and people who speak out against the regime are often silenced and even imprisoned. Recently, their government openly admitted to sending weapons to North Korea--and if you think it's acceptable to help support a totalitarian oligarchy like North Korea, you're no true leftist! And let's be real here: the Castros have been at the head of the state for over forty years. They have too much political power.

3. Even so, we shouldn't overlook their triumphs. Cuba is not socialist. There are haves and have-nots there, and the workers don't really control their respective industries. But they've done some great things. They've implemented a health care system that has guaranteed every citizen basic medical necessities. The life expectancy there is about the same as that of the U.S., even though they're still a developing country. They have a program that distributes a ration of free milk to every child under the age of seven. They spearheaded a nationwide literacy campaign that has resulted in a country where nearly 100% of the adult population can read. Basic human necessities are subsidized and available at a low cost. They have been consistently ranked as one of the world's most environmentally friendly nations. And for several decades now, they've pioneered a new form of grassroots democracy in the form of municipal assemblies of elected delegates, removable at any time by a recall vote. These local bodies have a tremendous amount of power over how health care, the economy, and other important issues are dealt with. Political influence is somewhat decentralized. At least on paper, it sounds nice.

Hope this helps:grin:

[Prometeo liberado]

I don't care what anyone else says, all I know is what I saw. First a culture of repression was non-existent. I ever saw a uniform. What really struck me was peoples willingness to speak openly and without fear of their concern about the ever more insane American position and the prospect of unemployment. At the same time I was invited into their homes. Sexual morays would make any teen-revlefter blush. Also Infrastructure is lacking as is a meaningful dialogue for an easing of tension regarding defectors(always bad). Its a bad situation but one that the people seem to be willing to take on with a sense bedrock independence and carefree attitude that the revolution has instilled. Neither gods nor americans could destroy the simple, free beauty that I saw.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

I don't care what anyone else says, all I know is what I saw. First a culture of repression was non-existent. I ever saw a uniform. What really struck me was peoples willingness to speak openly and without fear of their concern about the ever more insane American position and the prospect of unemployment. At the same time I was invited into their homes. Sexual morays would make any teen-revlefter blush. Also Infrastructure is lacking as is a meaningful dialogue for an easing of tension regarding defectors(always bad). Its a bad situation but one that the people seem to be willing to take on with a sense bedrock independence and carefree attitude that the revolution has instilled. Neither gods nor americans could destroy the simple, free beauty that I saw.

meh, I don't share this experience.

There were police everywhere. Even on the beach at the playa del este in Habana province, presumably to stop people who wish to swim/sail away to Florida. Having said that, there seemed to be a relatively good relationship between the police and ordinary Cubans, though how reliable my own testimony is on this is, I don't know, given that all i'm going on is brief observations of interactions between the two groups.

As far as evidence of repression goes, I saw a lot of hushed voices when it came to even mild criticism of the government. Especially in havana city, people were loathe to criticise socialism or the government without a look over their shoulder. Hardly 'freedom from repression' if you ask me.

As for simple, free beauty, I don't recognise this. Sure, until 2011/12 Cuba had a strong social democracy which ensured a relatively high minimum level of living for everyone; this is especially impressive considering:

a) that Cuba lost its main trading partner, the USSR, 20 years ago;
b) that Cuba suffers hugely under the US embargo;
c) that Cuba is, essentially, a developing country, and its economic achievements do, in some areas such as welfare, poverty, living standards, surpass those of pretty much any other developing country.

However, this is not socialism and, as we have seen since 2011, such welfare-ism, as is always the case with social democracy, is only ever temporary under capitalism. Cuba is now reverting back towards privatising industry, privatising social and property relations, and ending the use of the state as a means of securing the welfare of the people.

[TheWannabeAnarchist]

It's interesting that two people could have such dramatically different experiences. I've never been to Cuba, so I'm hardly a reliable source. But I have heard, by the way, that there are a lot of cops in tourist areas, more so than in places populated by native Cubans. They worry that tourists could be taken advantage of, or even attacked. Any American being attacked in Cuba, of course, would lead to a massive U.S. outcry.
:rolleyes:
This is according to one guy, so don't take what I say as scripture.

[Sasha]

The best dictatorship "socialism" can buy, as such its better than what most comparable countries have in the region, even the "democratic" ones, its not leftist let alone communist though.

[Full Metal Bolshevik]

The best dictatorship "socialism" can buy, as such its better than what most comparable countries have in the region, even the "democratic" ones, its not leftist let alone communist though.
Of course it's leftist, by every standard.

Unless leftist around here has another meaning.

[Winkers Fons]

The Boss, what do you mean when you say that Cuba had a strong social democracy until 2012? How was the system democratic and why is it not democratic any longer?

[Teacher]

When I was in Cuba, pretty much every person I talked to (and Cubans LOVE to talk to foreigners) complained about the government. Their concerns were mainly over the lack of consumer goods and low level of economic development in the country.

It is a wonderful place, but I doubt they will be socialist for much longer. All the pressures in the world are pushing them more towards the Chinese model.

[Ritzy Cat]

When I was in Cuba, pretty much every person I talked to (and Cubans LOVE to talk to foreigners) complained about the government. Their concerns were mainly over the lack of consumer goods and low level of economic development in the country.

It is a wonderful place, but I doubt they will be socialist for much longer. All the pressures in the world are pushing them more towards the Chinese model.

I do think I also read somewhere that private industry is slowly making a hold in Cuba as well.

Cuba's too small, physically and economically to hold its own sociopolitical foothold so yes, I agree, they will eventually succumb to something like China.

[Prometeo liberado]

As for simple, free beauty, I don't recognise this. Sure, until 2011/12 Cuba had a strong social democracy which ensured a relatively high minimum level of living for everyone; this is especially impressive considering:
By simple and free I mean the exact opposite of what the capitalist mindset would think, a non monetary commodity driven view of daily life. Granted I didn't meet the entire island just a few families in Santiago. Yes we talked of things lacking but with an air of "we can move forward", the Party being an after thought. It would be like talking to the a Fox News free society, same problems but just a more direct and succinct take. Maybe its just a Caribbean thing.
I really never saw a pig though. Hmm.

p.s. By the way, on the subject of all the pigs roaming the island the MOST policed area besides the Green Zone in Bagdad is RIGHT FUCKING HERE IN L.A. Skid Row. Gimme Cuba any day.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

By simple and free I mean the exact opposite of what the capitalist mindset would think, a non monetary commodity driven view of daily life. Granted I didn't meet the entire island just a few families in Santiago. Yes we talked of things lacking but with an air of "we can move forward", the Party being an after thought. It would be like talking to the a Fox News free society, same problems but just a more direct and succinct take. Maybe its just a Caribbean thing.

I'm going to guess that there is some correlation between geography and political outlook, then, which might explain the different experiences we had. Santiago is quite far from Havana, no? So probably there isn't so much government control there. Whereas all across Havana province the situation was different - as I said there were a fair amount of cops on the beat, and though aside from the presence of the pigs there wasn't much evidence of explicit government presence in day to day life, there was certainly a constant theme of people 'looking over their backs' and speaking in hushed tones when we talked about the government, living standards, pay and working conditions etc.

Also I don't think it's just a caribbean thing, but you are right to point to a cultural explanation as well - I think it's more a latin american thing. In Costa Rica I found the same sort of laid-back, progressive mindset in people, perhaps even more so than in Cuba. I've heard similar stories from people who have been to other latin american countries, even the poorer countries like Guatemala and El Salvador.

[Tim Cornelis]

GROWING ECONOMIC AND
SOCIAL DISPARITIES IN CUBA:
IMPACT AND RECOMMENDATIONS FOR CHANGE

By
Carmelo Mesa-Lago


Growing Disparities and their Impact
This paper documents the following eight types of socioeconomic
disparity in Cuba, focusing on the period of 1990-2002:
1. Income and wealth. (a) Income: Real average wage in the state sector shrank by 44 percent, but extreme salary/income differences grew from 829 to 1 in 1995, to 12,500 to 1 in 2002. (b) Foreign remititances: They are received by 50-65 percent of the population in an amount estimated to average US$103 per capita annually, similar to the average state wage in pesos, but blacks receive only $31 on average. (c) Bank accounts: In 1997, just 3 percent of the accounts (those with more than 10,000 pesos) had 46 percent of total deposits, while 66 percent (those with less than 200 pesos) had only 2 percent of the deposits.
2. Regressive taxes. The tax reform of 1994 generated a shift from direct to indirect taxes (56 percent of income, mostly sales taxes); dollar remittances and earnings by those illegally employed are not taxed, resulting in a regressive impact on income distribution.
3. Deterioration and disparities in social services. (a) Healthcare:
Deterioration in key indicators (morbidity, maternal mortality, malnutrition, infants born below weight) afflicts an immense majority of the population, but political leaders, the armed forces, and internal security forces are protected through separate special installations and care. (b) Education: Real budget expenses fell more than 38 percent; enrollment at the secondary level shrank by 10 percent, and at the higher level by 52 percent, jeopardizing future development; children of the elite are protected though having better schools. (c) Social security pensions: The average real pension dropped by 42 percent, and the supplementary safety net (subsidized food, adequate free healthcare, cheap public utilities) has severely deteriorated; the age of retirement is very low; workers don’t contribute; the deficit and fiscal subsidy are staggering; the growing private sector is not covered; and the armed forces and internal security have a separate, privileged pension scheme and receive food and other goods. (d) Housing: The housing deficit has grown to 1.6 million, and 39 percent of the existing stock does not meet habitability standards; the quality of housing differs significantly within Havana neighborhoods and between Havana and the rest of the provinces.
4. Regional disparities. The City of Havana has better standards than the poorest eastern provinces (Las Tunas, Guantanamo, Granma); the latter endure higher poverty and unemployment, lower investment, worse housing, less access to water and sanitation, and proportionally worse physician ratios and hospital bed availability.
5. Racial disparities. Blacks receive less than one-half the dollar remittances received by whites; blacks are concentrated in poor neighborhoods and suffer discrimination in employment at tourist facilities.
6. Discrimination vis-à-vis foreigners. Cubans have no access to the
first-rate healthcare available to foreign patients who pay in dollars,
nor to tourist hotels and restaurants; and they cannot operate their
own businesses even though the number of foreign joint enterprises
is growing.
7. Differences in satisfaction of basic needs. Declining real wages and
pensions, a cut in the provision of rationed goods to 10 days per
month, higher prices in state dollar shops, and free (private) agricultural
markets have led to increasing poverty; the average cost of the
food basket rose by 113 percent, and daily consumption of calories
and vitamins declined below minimum needs.
8. Poverty and social welfare. Cuban estimates of the incidence of
poverty (“population at risk”) in Havana range from 15 percent to 67
percent; real social expenditure per capita has dropped by 40 percent;
free social services and subsidies do not target the poor, but are provided
to all the population; and expanded income and wealth differences
have aggravated socioeconomic inequalities.

[Comrade Chernov]

They certainly to be the most populist of governing M-L parties.

I like it.

[Diirez]

What Cuba did right:
1. Healthcare. They have one of the best healthcare systems.
2. Overthrew an oppressive, imperialist regime.

What Cuba did wrong:
1. Fidel Castro- I will forever dislike this man. This Stalinist power thirsty Communist gives Communism a bad name. He launched a revolution that was designed to free Cuba from it's oppressive regime, only to oppress the people but under a different name.
2. Rights-Cuba failed at giving civil and political rights to the people.
3. Stalinism- Cuba was doomed to fail because of their choice of Authoritarian Stalinism.
4. Democracy- Cuba failed to introduce democracy, instead choosing totalitarianism. It's a shame. Only Tito can pull Authoritanism off.

Short Summary:
Cuba went wrong with Castro and Stalinism.

[Teacher]

There are quite a few cops in Havana but they are mostly drawn from the local community and are an innocuous presence. It is not like in the United States where the police are basically an occupying force to harass and arrest the poor.

In Havana I walked around the entire city at random hours of the night and never once felt like I was in any danger. This is a good thing. It's what many people in Eastern Europe miss about the old socialist states.

I only saw a police officer doing anything other than standing around once -- it was a female cop arresting a prostitute who it seemed was soliciting really aggressively in a restaurant. Prostitution is rampant in the country due to the shift in the economy towards tourism.

There are many social ills that are being reintroduced to the island as a result of the changes in the economy. People who work in the tourist economy make a lot more money than others because they get tips in CUCs which are the equivalent of U.S. dollars. One CUC is worth the equivalent of about 26 regular Cuban pesos. This is one of the reasons why they are getting rid of the dual currency system.

Basically, the collapse of the Soviet Union was a disaster for the entire world communist movement. Everybody I talked to in Havana spoke of the days when the Soviet Union was around as if it was some kind of golden period, where they had abundance of food and capital goods like farming machinery.

The so-called "leftists" who celebrate the collapse of the Soviet Union really get on my nerves. For so many of our people all around the world, the collapse of the SU just was an unmitigated disaster.

[Tim Cornelis]

There are quite a few cops in Havana but they are mostly drawn from the local community and are an innocuous presence. It is not like in the United States where the police are basically an occupying force to harass and arrest the poor.

Yet, the police and security forces squash dissent more so than US cops. That they are less visibly present, I would say, provides more a sense of insecurity because they can be anywhere.


In Havana I walked around the entire city at random hours of the night and never once felt like I was in any danger. This is a good thing. It's what many people in Eastern Europe miss about the old socialist states.

That may have less to do with the general state of security in Cuba and more to do with that a policeman for Cubans earns 8-19 dollars per month and a policeman for tourists 27-31 dollars per month (which is more than a doctor, engineer, or even a cabinet minister makes).


I only saw a police officer doing anything other than standing around once -- it was a female cop arresting a prostitute who it seemed was soliciting really aggressively in a restaurant. Prostitution is rampant in the country due to the shift in the economy towards tourism.

Logically, a prostitute earns between 240 and 1,400 dollars per month.


There are many social ills that are being reintroduced to the island as a result of the changes in the economy. People who work in the tourist economy make a lot more money than others because they get tips in CUCs which are the equivalent of U.S. dollars. One CUC is worth the equivalent of about 26 regular Cuban pesos. This is one of the reasons why they are getting rid of the dual currency system.

Basically, the collapse of the Soviet Union was a disaster for the entire world communist movement.

They weren't communist.


Everybody I talked to in Havana spoke of the days when the Soviet Union was around as if it was some kind of golden period, where they had abundance of food and capital goods like farming machinery.

The so-called "leftists" who celebrate the collapse of the Soviet Union really get on my nerves. For so many of our people all around the world, the collapse of the SU just was an unmitigated disaster.

That's quite a weird definition of leftism you have when the celebrating the collapse of the USSR or not is your standard by which you measure leftism.

[Teacher]

Tim, I don't think you are correct. People criticize and complain about the government constantly in Cuba. You will get arrested if you are fomenting insurrection or working with foreign governments (i.e., engaging in espionage) but simply criticizing the state of things is common and is in fact encouraged to a large degree. What you mentioned about how much cops are paid was something that people loudly complained about to me after only knowing me for a few minutes.

The collapse of the Soviet Union left Cuba with basically zero options. I don't like where the island is headed, but what was the alternative? Embracing neoliberalism? Cuba is not a large or self-sufficient country.

[Tim Cornelis]

Tim, I don't think you are correct. People criticize and complain about the government constantly in Cuba.

No doubt. You can criticise the government, or rather certain policies, to a large extent in most authoritarian states, Belarus, Russia, China, Iran. It is usually when your criticism is given public platform or accompanied by action when the trouble starts.


You will get arrested if you are fomenting insurrection or working with foreign governments (i.e., engaging in espionage) but simply criticizing the state of things is common and is in fact encouraged to a large degree.

You will also get arrested for taking non-violent action against the government.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/cuba-pocs-2013-08-02
http://www.amnesty.org/en/news/cuba-poc-ivan-fernandez-depestre-2013-09-11


What you mentioned about how much cops are paid was something that people loudly complained about to me after only knowing me for a few minutes.

I could imagine. It's not the backbone of the ideological pillars of the Cuban regime so I'd be surprised to see a Cuban persecuted for it. More sensitive issues, however.


The collapse of the Soviet Union left Cuba with basically zero options. I don't like where the island is headed, but what was the alternative? Embracing neoliberalism? Cuba is not a large or self-sufficient country.

The alternative is indeed embracing neoliberalism. This is the unfortunate reality of capital. If you do not manage in its interests or to its benefits it is so-called "economic mismanagement" and reforms are needed to correct this. Either that or socialist revolution.