situation Hamburg escalates after heavy clashes at RotaFlora autonomen demonstration

[Sasha]

Today there was supposed to be a radical mass demonstration in defence of the RoteFlora squat, refugees rights and against gentrification, the demo only made it 5 minutes from the starting point before coming under heavy watercanon and pepperspray attacks and getting legally dissolved by the cops. The demo is fighting back and it can be expected that the clashes will last well into the night, live updates through; http://ticker.nadir.org

[Sasha]

Bourgeois press live ticker: http://mobil.abendblatt.de/hamburg/altona/article123201136/Die-Situation-eskaliert-Wasserwerfer-vor-der-Roten-Flora.html

At least 8000 people at the demo, hundreds are trying to break through the kettles, sucks so bad i'm stuck at an family weekend away...

[Sasha]

Love the police estimation of "5500 demonstrators, 4500 'gewaltbereit" :lol:

[Sasha]

On Twitter: https://mobile.twitter.com/@hamburg2112
https://mobile.twitter.com/search/?q=%23hh2112&s=hash

[Sasha]

Awesome, st pauli ultras bought an vintage police watercanon and brought it to the demo!

[Sasha]

Love the police estimation of "5500 demonstrators, 4500 'gewaltbereit" :lol:

Lol at people on Twitter asking why the "real demonstrators don't isolate the violent chaoten?", maybe because the peace brigade are just not there, everyone knew it was going clash today yet showed up, fully prepared, anyway...

[Sasha]

Live stream; http://www.livestream.com/activistworldnewsnow

[Sasha]

People are slowely being let out of the ketles, burning baricades and spontaneous demonstrations are continuing throughout the area. The night is still young.

[bcbm]

can we get some riot porn pics in here please?

[Sasha]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/woerpel/sets/72157638886089484/

[Sasha]

Instant iconic photo; http://cdn2.spiegel.de/images/image-583065-galleryV9-uegd.jpg

Cop cleaning paint bomb paint from his visor with siezed flag.

[Sasha]

Thousands are still on the streets and regrouping in the st pauli district, 70 cops are claimed to be injured so one can imagine how many comrades are injured, there are after many hours without food or toilet still many ppl ketled and arrested. 2 luxury hotels where trashed. Dutch news is claiming live rounds have been fired but I have seen nothing like that on German sources so I assume/hope its an translation error.

[Ele'ill]

police station attacked


Hbg4gBnG_84





clashes



QWwDsPSe7iM

[Sasha]

Most surreal vid of the day: nhQEyMG1Pow

[Sasha]

Google translated article describing the day and saying that the cops escalation was preplanned: http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&hl=en&ie=UTF8&nv=1&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.nl&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://www.publikative.org/2013/12/21/eskalation-in-der-schanze/&usg=ALkJrhga8JDI-KgkPy_goFHr_n3mMBTTdw

[Sasha]

This afternoon in front of the flora: Lu1kM3IEinU

[Sasha]

Cool picture set: http://www.fr-online.de/panorama/hamburg-rote-flora-katz-maus-spiel-mit-der-polizei,1472782,25705654.html

[John Lennin]

It's a shame that i dont know anyone from Hamburg.

The police "de-escalating the situation":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu1kM3IEinU

[Sasha]

140 arrested, 16 remanded, hundreds injured.
Solidarity to everyone who took to the streets today, let's give them hell if they ever try to evict the flora.

[Sasha]

The moment the demo got stopped, while militant its clear its the cops seeking the confrontation, not the autonomen. rvQGQhxfDhc

[Per Levy]

140 arrested, 16 remanded, hundreds injured.
Solidarity to everyone who took to the streets today, let's give them hell if they ever try to evict the flora.

the "die rote hilfe" will have lots to during and after the weekend.

[Sasha]

Footage from inside the demo; FuHJmGTts-g

[Prometeo liberado]

One question, why does it seem as if the German comrades always have their shit together?
Much respect and may you all end up victorious!

[Sasha]

more riotporn:Fvqctsf5Wwc

&

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pm_cheung/sets/72157638898879143/with/11488375393/

[Ele'ill]

great video

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

One question, why does it seem as if the German comrades always have their shit together?
Much respect and may you all end up victorious!

What in the hell are you talking about?! Look what happened. The demonstrators showed absolutely no unity when it came down to it. A worker's demonstration should not be able to be stopped, the workers always have the numerical majority against the cops not to mention moral superiority. If the bourgeois hounds think they can get away with charging a workers demonstration, there is something severely wrong with the attitude, organization and unity of the protesting workers.

[Ele'ill]

What in the hell are you talking about?! Look what happened. The demonstrators showed absolutely no unity when it came down to it. A worker's demonstration should not be able to be stopped, the workers always have the numerical majority against the cops not to mention moral superiority. If the bourgeois hounds think they can get away with charging a workers demonstration, there is something severely wrong with the attitude, organization and unity of the protesting workers.


sometimes i think folks just get mad that 'another tendency' throws down really well despite being outnumbered and with current conditions being what they are

[Sasha]

@ workersetc:

dude there where almost 4000 riotcops deployed in full armour and armed to the teeth, in germany its illegal to even bring goggles to a demo or shinpads to a demo. so holding yourself like this under such a brutal attack when you maybe have 10.000 at a militant demo yet still only outnumber the cops 2,5 to 1?!?
you ever even been to any demo with any cop opposition? this is by far the most efficient way one can defend yourself against the cops in this situation without starting to shoot them

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

sometimes i think folks just get mad that 'another tendency' throws down really well despite being outnumbered and with current conditions being what they are

Yes, you have caught me comrade. I am jealous of the herculean Anarchist rabble of Hamburg. Look what they have achieved! A few bottles have been broken, we all got an adrenaline kick and get to go back home to our bills and shitty routine tomorrow.

[Ele'ill]

and get to go back home to our bills and shitty routine tomorrow.


this is what was said the day before too though

[Sasha]

how many illegalized immigrants are you already housing for years? how many mass gentrification projects have you stopped? how many murdering neo-nazi movements have you smashed? how many safe places for women do you run? how many homeless do you feed everyday?

shut the fuck up

[Sasha]

oh, and lastly, how many people do the demo's you organize attract? let me guess, well short of 10.000 people willing to go toe to toe with the cops if necessary...

[Full Metal Bolshevik]

Great videos.

I wonder, since this was pre-planned, if they couldn't organize themselves a bit better, maybe try to make their advancement more difficult.

Still way better than anything I've seen lately in my country.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

@ workersetc:

dude there where almost 4000 riotcops deployed in full armour and armed to the teeth, in germany its illegal to even bring goggles to a demo or shinpads to a demo. so holding yourself like this under such a brutal attack when you maybe have 10.000 at a militant demo yet still only outnumber the cops 2,5 to 1?!?
you ever even been to any demo with any cop opposition? this is by far the most efficient way one can defend yourself against the cops in this situation without starting to shoot them

I went to the Anti-NATO summit protests in Munich two years ago (2011?) and some other stuff with Police, so yes, it is all fantastic and very impressive. But the Police stand no chance if the conviction of the protesters is strong. What I'm getting at is this: on a May Day demonstration I attended once, if a cop had even dared to intimidate some protesters, not to think of stopping the march(!) or hitting people, the indignation of the protesters would have been so massive that the cops would fear for their lives. The dignity of the cause of the protest (the strength of Labor) was untouchable, so I felt.

But the reality is that most people you meet at protests don't go there because they are of a strong political conviction that what they are protesting for is correct, but because they sympathize with this or that issue or just want to let off some steam. Before a protest begins you can basically tell whether the chauvinist and reactionary petty-bourgeois elements will feel the liberty to slander it based on the political situation of the protest's idea and the conviction of its participants.

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

how many illegalized immigrants are you already housing for years? how many mass gentrification projects have you stopped? how many murdering neo-nazi movements have you smashed? how many safe places for women do you run? how many homeless do you feed everyday?

shut the fuck up

No need to get vulgar, comrade. I have done nothing of the kind you've mentioned. Actually I gave 5 dollars to a homeless guy the other day, I didn't really feel different afterwards though. I wouldn't even see the point in "smashing" murdering neo-nazi movements since the German State finances and arms them, not to mention that Fascism is a natural and constantly reoccurring product of capitalism.

Seeing as I can't get a job that pays enough for me to live by myself, I've been been forced to live with my parents. My Cop father in fact puts immigrants into the notoriously despicable asylum houses in Bavaria, so I don't think he'd let me take home some refugee from Syria or something. But my personal life aside...
This is exactly the difference between you and me: You seem to think good-guy-activism changes the world, I think party-building changes the world.

[BIXX]

I went to the Anti-NATO summit protests in Munich two years ago (2011?) and some other stuff with Police, so yes, it is all fantastic and very impressive. But the Police stand no chance if the conviction of the protesters is strong. What I'm getting at is this: on a May Day demonstration I attended once, if a cop had even dared to intimidate some protesters, not to think of stopping the march(!) or hitting people, the indignation of the protesters would have been so massive that the cops would fear for their lives. The dignity of the cause of the protest (the strength of Labor) was untouchable, so I felt.



But the reality is that most people you meet at protests don't go there because they are of a strong political conviction that what they are protesting for is correct, but because they sympathize with this or that issue or just want to let off some steam. Before a protest begins you can basically tell whether the chauvinist and reactionary petty-bourgeois elements will feel the liberty to slander it based on the political situation of the protest's idea and the conviction of its participants.


Let me rephrase that question: have you personally been hit or pappersprayed by the police?

I have, once, and let me tell you, it's not something you just deal with because of your conviction. So don't pull that "they aren't trying hard enough" just because they've been "beaten". When comrades are injured fighting to help people, and you shit on them, you gotta rethink your position.

[Sasha]

You seem to think good-guy-activism changes the world, I think party-building changes the world.

so, where is your party? got what? a hundred members and a 2 monthly 8 page newspaper thats preaching to the converted?
i'll take my good-guy activism every day, not only are we doing something tangible today, the chance we do something remotely revolutionary is also considerably higher than your when hell is freezing over.

[The Feral Underclass]

I think party-building changes the world.

No doubt. History shows us just how successful party building is. Look how they govern us. Shame it's always at the expense of the working class.

[Sea]

Is it just me or do these anarchists, when it comes to working within legal organizations, have better Bolshevik tactics than most self-professed Bolshevists do?

(I mean that as a complement, BTW)

[Workers-Control-Over-Prod]

Let me rephrase that question: have you personally been hit or pappersprayed by the police?

I have, once, and let me tell you, it's not something you just deal with because of your conviction. So don't pull that "they aren't trying hard enough" just because they've been "beaten". When comrades are injured fighting to help people, and you shit on them, you gotta rethink your position.

Well, sorry for that experience. I'm not saying that the protesters are not "trying" hard enough. Obviously they are doing pretty much all a protester can do, stand your ground. But the conditions leading up to the protest are shite and doom it to irrelevance.

People who protest and/or are beaten by the bourgeois state are not instantly my "comrades". Most people I've met protesting have reformist politics. If the people protesting were actually, organized comrades (people with a common socialist striving towards an egalitarian future) and if the political frame of the cop/protester confrontation were changed by the existence of an armed mass communist party in opposition, then everyone would be aware that the slightest act of violence or encroachment of the democratic demonstration of the masses would escalate confrontations and legitimize armed defense/revolution at the hand of the People.

[Prometeo liberado]

Yes, you have caught me comrade. I am jealous of the herculean Anarchist rabble of Hamburg. Look what they have achieved! A few bottles have been broken, we all got an adrenaline kick and get to go back home to our bills and shitty routine tomorrow.

Pretty sure that negative prism you're looking thru can't see what others may. And that is that in so many other cities and around the world the most one could expect is 10 veteran activist showing up to a city council zoning meeting with a petition with 11 signatures, 10 being theirs.

[BIXX]

No need to get vulgar, comrade. I have done nothing of the kind you've mentioned. Actually I gave 5 dollars to a homeless guy the other day, I didn't really feel different afterwards though. I wouldn't even see the point in "smashing" murdering neo-nazi movements since the German State finances and arms them, not to mention that Fascism is a natural and constantly reoccurring product of capitalism.



Seeing as I can't get a job that pays enough for me to live by myself, I've been been forced to live with my parents. My Cop father in fact puts immigrants into the notoriously despicable asylum houses in Bavaria, so I don't think he'd let me take home some refugee from Syria or something. But my personal life aside...

This is exactly the difference between you and me: You seem to think good-guy-activism changes the world, I think party-building changes the world.

the party will solve nothing.

[bcbm]

If the people protesting were actually, organized comrades (people with a common socialist striving towards an egalitarian future) and if the political frame of the cop/protester confrontation were changed by the existence of an armed mass communist party in opposition, then everyone would be aware that the slightest act of violence or encroachment of the democratic demonstration of the masses would escalate confrontations and legitimize armed defense/revolution at the hand of the People.

if wishes were horses...

[Ravachol]

I think party-building changes the world.

This about sums up the weight one ought to give to your opinion lol

[Ele'ill]

So back onto the topic of the folks who put their bodies and lives on the line rather than a bunch of newspapers and buttons or whatever how are the arrestees holding up how are the injured folks doing?

[Ele'ill]

Seeing as I can't get a job that pays enough for me to live by myself, I've been been forced to live with my parents.

Hey, are you aware that this thread is about a squat resistance? Has that just zoomed over your head as a concept or..?




My Cop father in fact puts immigrants into the notoriously despicable asylum houses in Bavaria,That sounds like irreconcilable differences to me if i were you I'd leave and never look back.


so I don't think he'd let me take home some refugee from Syria or somethingwhy are you basing your political praxis on what your dad (a cop) would let you do lol that is so weird

[Zukunftsmusik]

Hey, are you aware that this thread is about a squat resistance? Has that just zoomed over your head as a concept or..?

Nah, apparantly it's no good to defend yourself from eviction if you're not building the party

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

Lol 20 people 'building the party' in the basement of their student union is a better example of radical organization than 10,000 people turning out to defend something that activity connects their surrounding community in common struggle, I guess.

[Per Levy]

So back onto the topic of the folks who put their bodies and lives on the line rather than a bunch of newspapers and buttons or whatever how are the arrestees holding up how are the injured folks doing?

Demonstranten: über 7.500
Polizeibeamte: etwa 4.000
Verletzte Demonstranten: 500 Personen, darunter 20 Schwerverletzte
Verletzte Polizisten: 120 Beamte, darunter 19 Schwerverletzte
Demonstranten, die vorläufig in Gewahrsam genommen wurden: 320
Festgenommene Demonstranten: 21



Protestors: over 7500

Police: around 4000
Hurt Protestors: 500 and 20 are badly hurt
Hurt Police: 120 and 19 who had to go to a hospital
Protestors who got jailed temporarily: 320
Jailed protestors: 21

sadly i got no infos on how bad the protestors got hurt. the numbers of hurt police should be fake as usally.

[Ele'ill]

here are some more pictures not necessarily of the event though, thought they were inspiring and pretty cool



http://derhonigmannsagt.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/demonstration-im-schanzenviertel-in-hamburg.jpg

http://view.stern.de/de/original/625883/Hamburg-St-Pauli-Rote-Flora-Rote-Flora.jpg



http://libcom.org/files/images/blog/1532115_266099466876956_760891218_n.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-GhZ1DBzlWjU/UrbcsxerOMI/AAAAAAAALmY/YmNKsjzIrbs/s1600/flora1.JPG

[Per Levy]

so from what i've read over the christmas days, all protestors are free again, no one is jailed anymore, the last they held captive were released because of lack evidence and all that. that isnt to bad, still i think that many of the protestors will be charged.

[Sasha]

Shit is escalating again, last week the cop station in st pauli got attacked again and a few cops got bricked and hospitalized. Cops have been going on a rampage ever since, they declared the whole st pauli and schanze areas "risk area" basically putting the hood under martial law. People are getting stopped and frisked all over by riotcops, leftist looking ppl are either getting banned of the area or if they live there get an curfew order.
Updates on the "enough is enough" page on Facebook.

[Full Metal Bolshevik]

Attacking cops? Shouldn't attacking cops be a self defense resort? (if they get between our enemies like in most manifs).
Not going out of our way to hurt them.

[BIXX]

Attacking cops? Shouldn't attacking cops be a self defense resort? (if they get between our enemies like in most manifs).
Not going out of our way to hurt them.


They are our enemies. They maintain the social order, so the less of them walking the streets the better.

All my heroes kill cops.

[Full Metal Bolshevik]

They are our enemies. They maintain the social order, so the less of them walking the streets the better.

All my heroes kill cops.

I think some of them would rather be cops than unemployed. Don't cops have a high rate of suicide and depression? I think I read something about that on national news.

[BIXX]

I think some of them would rather be cops than unemployed. Don't cops have a high rate of suicide and depression? I think I read something about that on national news.


Well, they still maintain the social order (as that's what their job is designed to do, "maintain the peace/enforce the law") and cops are also willing to pepperspray and beat folks for little to no reason, often against those laws they swore to uphold, and then laugh about it later.

I don't give a shit if they would rather be cops than unemployed. They're still assholes.

Edit to add: they make a lot while doing it, too. http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes333051.htm

Also their rates of depression don't interest me. Maybe they should be pigs.

[Sasha]

An unauthorized demonstration (sponti) is taking place now in st pauli, about 600 in the demo, another 200 or so are being held in kettles in the schanz area.

[Ele'ill]

Attacking cops? Shouldn't attacking cops be a self defense resort? (if they get between our enemies like in most manifs).
Not going out of our way to hurt them.


I think this discussion should be dropped or split from this thread.

[Ele'ill]

An unauthorized demonstration (sponti) is taking place now in st pauli, about 600 in the demo, another 200 or so are being held in kettles in the schanz area.

What's the word? I couldn't find anything really when you made the post just some thumbnails of pigs in white helmets surrounding a few folks up against a building

[Sasha]

Last i heard at least one of the kettles everybody got put on busses so they are probably all arrested, further no news.

[Sasha]

Seems that the police/local government is desperate to break the leftist resistance in the city, next to the already continued harrasment of the lampedusa imigrant activists and now the autonomem the cops evicted and flattend the occupy camp that was still active in the city this morning.

[Sasha]

again sponti demo's tonight in the "dangerzone", again groups are getting kettled, solidarity demonstrations in frankurt and berlin.

[Sasha]

http://revolution-news.com/activists-hamburg-protest-danger-zone/

[Sasha]

Sponti with more than a 1000 participants is marching towards the reeperbahn as we speak.

Cops seem to have (partly) fabricated the attack on the copstation that was the excuse for the emergency order

[Sasha]

The demo disbanded peacefully at the finish point.

[Sasha]

To protest the ridiculous state of emergency (defacto martial law) in the area residents have been putting silly and embarrassing things in their bags for the cops to find.
A stop and search where the riotcops confiscated a toiletbrush made the national tv, as such there will be a freedom of toiletbrushes demonstration tonight.
There have also already been flags and banners spotted with the iconic st pauli jollyroger with crossed toiletbrushes instead of crossbones. :lol:

[Sasha]

Fc0G0ku1Z-U

Facebook event page: https://m.facebook.com/events/553472861410688/

[Sasha]

8 January 2014 Last updated at 16:58 GMT US travel warning for Hamburg after police crackdown

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/72158000/jpg/_72158381_020414943-1.jpg Tension in Hamburg exploded into violence last month


The US embassy in Berlin has issued a travel warning for Americans visiting Hamburg after a police crackdown on leftist protesters in the German port.
Americans are advised in the warning (http://germany.usembassy.gov/hamburg-restricted-zone/)to avoid demonstrations or public gatherings in the areas affected, which include the main nightlife district.
They are also urged to carry ID because of police stop and search powers.
After some of the worst rioting seen in Germany in years, police declared parts of Hamburg "danger zones" on Saturday.
The unrest has centred on the eviction of an anarchist community centre, the Rote Flora, which was set up by squatters in a former theatre nearly 25 years ago.
Thousands of demonstrators turned out for a protest on 21 December at which dozens of people, including police officers, were injured in clashes.
On 28 December, masked rioters pelted a police station with bottles and stones. Three policemen were injured, at least one of them seriously.
'Not that bad' Police now have special powers to stop and search people in the gefahrengebieten, or "danger zones", which are in force 24 hours a day and cover the red light district of the Reeperbahn, the Old Town, St Pauli and Altona Nord, where Rote Flora is located.
http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/72158000/jpg/_72158443_020414896-1.jpg The violence centred on the Rote Flora squat, used as a cultural centre by anarchists
"If stopped without proper identification, persons may be detained by police without further justification," the US embassy warns.
Since the "danger zones" were declared, leftist bloggers have accused the police of effectively imposing "martial law".
The travel warning for Hamburg, Germany's second biggest city and one of the wealthiest and most dynamic towns in Europe, was greeted with some incredulity by Germans.
"The US called a travel warning for my city of Hamburg!?" wrote one blogger on Twitter. "Honestly? That sounds like we were living in a civil war area. It's not that bad."
"Travel warnings from the US embassy for South Sudan, Libya and the Hamburg Danger Area," another tweeter quipped.
Current UK government travel advice (https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/germany) for Germany does not mention Hamburg specifically but notes that travellers should carry their passports with them at all times as German police have the right to ask to see identification.



source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-25651806

[Sasha]

Hamburg police set up 'danger zones' to curb violence

After clashes over the eviction of a left-wing cultural center, Hamburg has established a so-called danger zone giving police the right to stop and search people. Critics warn it's an infringement of rights.
http://www.dw.de/image/0,,17344439_303,00.jpg (http://www.dw.de/hamburg-police-set-up-danger-zones-to-curb-violence/a-17344596#)
Batons, fireworks and black face masks - so far, that's all the Hamburg police has to show after checking more than 400 people on the approaches to the city's Sternschanze area. Since, Saturday, they've been acting under powers to stop, search and check papers in so-called danger zones given them by a 2005 order.
The police have so far stopped around 100 people from remaining in the area. There's been one arrest and 45 people were detained - most of them were on a "stroll through the danger zone" organized by activists on the Internet.
The trigger for the current unrest was the clashes during a December 21 demonstration by left-wing radicals (http://www.dw.de/injuries-as-activists-and-police-clash-over-hamburgs-rote-flora-center/a-17315992)against the eviction of the Rote Flora cultural center. The center, in an anarchist squat, had existed for almost 25 years. Hundreds were injured in street violence following the demonstration.
http://www.dw.de/image/0,,17315673_404,00.jpg (http://www.dw.de/hamburg-police-set-up-danger-zones-to-curb-violence/a-17344596#) The clashes between police and protesters led to hundreds of injuries

The following weekend, a group of masked attackers severely injured three policemen at a local police station. According to media reports there were also attacks on the private homes of several politicians.
The city's governing Social Democrats as well as main opposition Christian Democrats both agree the establishment of temporary so-called "danger zones" makes sense. Opposition Greens and Liberal Free Democrats, though, have called for the decision to be examined in light of whether it's a disproportionate response.
Especially the Left party is opposed to the measure and wants to take the issue to court. Spokesperson Christiane Schneider said that "establishing a danger zone where tens of thousands of people live" was clearly going too far.
Crime hotspots and danger zones
http://www.dw.de/image/0,,17343647_404,00.jpg (http://www.dw.de/hamburg-police-set-up-danger-zones-to-curb-violence/a-17344596#) Joachim Lender of Hamburg police defends the measure as necessary and effective

But many in the police see things differently. Joachim Lenders of the police union says he can understand that not everybody is happy with the situation, but insists it's a useful measure to curb violence in the area around the Rote Flora center.
Danger zones had worked very well in the past, he says, for instance when targeting the drugs scene in a park not far from Rote Flora. "An open drugs scene had developed there and it was identified as a crime hotspot, so we also established a danger zone there." Since then, the situation has much improved and the measure has been lifted, Lenders told DW.
Heated tension
For months, there've been three political issues brewing in Hamburg. Aside from the controversy as to whether to evict the Rote Flora center, there's also been anger over the clearing of several 1960s housing blocks to make way for new investments. The third issue is the deportation of refugees who'd come from Lampedusa.
http://www.dw.de/image/0,,17315675_404,00.jpg (http://www.dw.de/hamburg-police-set-up-danger-zones-to-curb-violence/a-17344596#) Tensions between left-wing activists and the authorities had been brewing for months

The police, Lenders explains, feel they have a duty towards the people living in the Rote Flora area: "There are many people living there who don't like the violence, arson and willful damage to property."
Many of the residents had been hoping for a peaceful coexistence with the squatters in Rote Flora but "they've have had it up to here with rowdies who have been travelling to Hamburg especially looking after confrontation with the police. They use opportunities like the May 1 demonstration or local festivals simply for violence and unrest."
Green party spokeswoman Antje Möller however thinks that dialogue should be favored over increased police presence. "It's only political dialogue that will help, not more powers for the police," she told German public radio. "I'm worried that this will lead to an escalation that none of us wants."
Across Germany, police have set up danger zones in urban areas in more than forty cases since 2005 - in most cases though only for a few hours during an event like a football match or a demonstration.
It's not clear how long the police will maintain the danger zone in Hamburg. In the past, such long-term danger zones have been used, not just in Hamburg, mostly to combat drugs crime. But Joachim Lenders of the Hamburg police says he has never seen such an extent of politically motivated violence in the past.




source: http://www.dw.de/hamburg-police-set-up-danger-zones-to-curb-violence/a-17344596

[Leo]

I have a few questions about these demonstrations.

First of all how many people are participating? From what I've understood so far, the number seems to be between 8,000 to 10,000 in Hamburg, is this correct? Are all the protestors more or less the already politicized people in the city (leftists, anarchists, the squat movement, other radicals etc.) or are there others sponteneously coming out? If so to what an extent? If not, what is the general feeling about the events among the working class and specifically the young proletarians? What is the situation in other cities? Is it a few leftists demonstrating here and there or something more? Did the martial law in Hamburg cause an outburst or is the general feeling supportive of the state?

I would be glad if someone can answer my questions, thanks in advance.

[Sasha]

A 500 ppl bicycle demonstration is being blocked by riotcops atm.

[Ritzy Cat]

The police, Lenders explains, feel they have a duty towards the people living in the Rote Flora area: "There are many people living there who don't like the violence, arson and willful damage to property.

I'm sure they feel that duty...


Green party spokeswoman Antje Möller however thinks that dialogue should be favored over increased police presence. "It's only political dialogue that will help, not more powers for the police," she told German public radio. "I'm worried that this will lead to an escalation that none of us wants."

I looked more on the Green Party website and this lady Muller in Hamburg says something of this sort here...


This danger area has caused far beyond Hamburg for criticism. The measure was totally disproportionate. It was necessary that the police back rows and reduced the area. But it also lacks for the three new risk areas, the creation of a specific threat. This theme is of course currently for us. We continue to call for the repeal of the danger areas. Moreover basically want to discuss the criteria to be linked to the future risk areas in Hamburg. "
http://www.gruene-fraktion-hamburg.de/innenpolitik-vorstand/09-01-2014/verkleinerung-ist-nur-erster-schritt-der-deeskalation

Additionally, the glorious Social Democrat Ralf Stegner said this..

The Social Democrat Party Leader of Schleswig-Holstein, Ralf Stegner told the German newspaper "Hamburger Abendblatt" that the government must act with a zero-tolerance strategy against violence against police officers. Stegner also reminded that the protection of the health of officials is essential.
http://www.worldbulletin.net/?aType=haber&ArticleID=126594

The protection of the official's health is obviously much more important then the squatters hanging around the square & the privacy of everyone who walks by there...

[Sasha]

+500 people are having a massive pillowfight at the moment on a square in the middle of the dangerzone...

[Leo]

Bump?

[Sasha]

Hamburg: Danger Zones lifted, City may buy Rote Flora

January 15, 2014 - Germany (http://revolution-news.com/category/revnews/germany/), Revolution News (http://revolution-news.com/category/revnews/) - Tagged: Anti-Government (http://revolution-news.com/tag/anti-government/), antireport (http://revolution-news.com/tag/antireport/), enough is enough (http://revolution-news.com/tag/enough-is-enough/), Gefahrengebiet (http://revolution-news.com/tag/gefahrengebiet/), Germany (http://revolution-news.com/tag/germany/), government corruption (http://revolution-news.com/tag/government-corruption/), Hamburg (http://revolution-news.com/tag/hamburg/), human rights (http://revolution-news.com/tag/human-rights/), LampedusaHH (http://revolution-news.com/tag/lampedusahh/), police (http://revolution-news.com/tag/police/), Police Brutality (http://revolution-news.com/tag/police-brutality/), Police Corruption (http://revolution-news.com/tag/police-corruption/), police violence (http://revolution-news.com/tag/police-violence/), protest (http://revolution-news.com/tag/protest/), rbnews (http://revolution-news.com/tag/rbnews/), revolution news (http://revolution-news.com/tag/revolution-news/), Rote Flora (http://revolution-news.com/tag/rote-flora/), SPD (http://revolution-news.com/tag/spd/)

http://revolution-news.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Iconic.jpg (http://revolution-news.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/Iconic.jpg)Photo via Enough is Enough


After Hamburg police divided the “danger zone” into three smaller areas (http://revolution-news.com/hamburg-danger-zones-lifted-city-may-buy-rote-flora/%28http://revolution-news.com/after-massive-protests-hamburg-police-try-to-fool-the-media-again/) last week, police authorities lifted the danger zones on Monday. The move came after protests continued to grow during the weekend, and after strong criticism against the police and the state government of Hamburg in German mainstream media. On Tuesday, the city of Hamburg announced that they want to buy back the autonomous cultural center Rote Flora to maintain its occupied status. The Rote Flora has been occupied by autonomous activists since 1989, but owner Klaus-Martin Kretschmer wants to evict the building (http://revolution-news.com/hamburg-germany-rote-flora-will-stay-incompatible/).
http://revolution-news.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/demo-roteflors.jpg (http://revolution-news.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/demo-roteflors.jpg)
After more than a week of daily protests and strong criticism against Hamburg police authorities, the police announced that the so-called “danger zones” (which are actually state of emergency zones where police are able to stop, search, ban and detain people as they please) were over on Monday. Mainstream media criticized the excessive use of force by police, and the police fabrication of an attack on Davidwache police station (http://revolution-news.com/hamburg-danger-zones-lifted-city-may-buy-rote-flora/%28http://revolution-news.com/day-3-of-dangerzone-protests-in-hamburg-police-lies-exposed/%29) at Hamburgs famous Reeperbahn. Protesters were reclaiming the streets on a daily basis, and because of the spontaneous nature of the protests – and the massive support of local residents – police forces couldn’t control the protests, and after 9 days of daily protests, authorities finally gave up. During the 9 days that the danger zone existed police had harassed 990 people, banned 195 people from the area, detained 66 people and made only 5 arrests.
The ongoing protests became increasingly more creative, eventually employing an iconic toilet brush as a symbol of freedom after a video of man caught with a toilet brush was filmed at a danger zone checkpoint.
Also, on January 10th, activists organized a giant pillow fight to protest the danger zone:
That same day, a leftover Christmas tree fell victim to danger zone protestors.
http://revolution-news.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/xmastree1.jpg (http://revolution-news.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/xmastree1.jpg)Photo from Enough is Enough (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=670837289604884&set=a.488001111221837.105576.485088638179751&type=1&theater)


For German activists, closure of the danger zone was an important win, as it was the first time police authorities installed a danger zone to suppress political protests. Many activists feared that other German cities might follow the pilot project of police authorities in Hamburg. On Monday afternoon and in the evening hours, there were still protests ongoing in Hamburg because people are mobilizing against the law that makes these danger zones possible, and also to make it clear that they have not forgotten their original demands. People demand the right to stay for the “Lampedusa in Hamburg” refugees, make clear that they are against the demolition of the Esso houses, and that they will defend the autonomous cultural center Rote Flora (which is still under threat of eviction).
http://revolution-news.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/dangerdance.jpg (http://revolution-news.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/dangerdance.jpg)Post-danger zone protest on January 13th, Photo via Enough is Enough (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=672094806145799&set=a.488001111221837.105576.485088638179751&type=1&relevant_count=1)


Last year there were more and more demonstrations for the right to stay for the “Lampedusa in Hamburg” refugees. Starting in October on an almost daily basis (after activists issued an ultimatum demanding the right to stay for refugees to the Hamburg senate during a general assembly at Rote Flora), there have been spontaneous demonstrations in Hamburg, as well as weekly registered demos, the biggest on November 2 (http://revolution-news.com/huge-demonstration-in-solidarity-with-lampedusa-in-hamburg-refugees/) having drawn more than 20,000 people.
While protests against the eviction and demolition for another gentrification project in Hamburg of the Esso houses have intensified in the last months of 2013, authorities evicted the houses just days before a big demonstration on December 21. About 10,000 people wanted to march in Hamburg to defend the Rote Flora, the Esso houses, and for the right to stay for refugees; but a huge army of riot cops attacked the demonstration (http://revolution-news.com/hamburg-police-attacked-rote-flora-demo-hh2112/) after activists marched just 20 meters, despite the demo being peaceful until the police attack. After riot cops attacked a demo against EU austerity in Frankfurt earlier this year, kettled about 1000 peaceful protesters for 10 hours, and brutally beat activists at many smaller demonstrations; people had had enough of police attacks against demonstrations, and defended themselves on December 21 in Hamburg. Clashes broke out and lasted until the early morning hours of the next day.
Police authorities claim that activists started the clashes, but their lobby groups demanded rubber bullets and tasers for the police. Hysterical media supported the police so much that authorities decided to install the danger zones. But after the strong protests and the elimination of the danger zones, Hamburg’s ruling social-democratic SPD party made a U-turn on Tuesday, and are now blaming the owner Klaus-Martin Kretschmer of the Rote Flora building for the clashes. The SPD announced that the city of Hamburg wants to buy the building back for 1.1 million Euro. Kretschmer bought the from city authorities in 2001 for 190.000 Euro in order to make a huge profit. But on the same day, Kretschmer reacted and he said he would not sell the building back to the city, and that he will continue with his plans to evict the Rote Flora and to build a theater with a car park inside the building. In a leaked letter (https://docs.google.com/gview?url=http://www.altona.info/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/StadtHamburgSchreibenanKretschmer-RoteFlora.pdf&chrome=true%29) from the city of Hamburg to Kretschmer, the city is even threatening to force Kretschmer to sell the building. The SPD wants to buy the building to maintain its occupied status.
In the letter, the city wrote that they “will not tolerate his (Kretschma) this behavior,” and that he is fueling the conflict. They also wrote that in the buyers contract, Kretschmer was obligated to maintain the status of the Rote Flora, and that they have the right to buy it back if Kretschmer violates these contract terms. In the letter, the city says that Kretschmer must accept the offer to buy back the building for 1.1 million Euro, and that if he doesn’t, the city will consider suing Kretschmer and seizing the building – compensating him with only 190.000 Euro.

Many are rightfully speculative of the city’s claim that they will buy the Rote Flora and maintain it’s status as an autonomist cultural center. After all, there are local elections on May 25 in Hamburg. It might be just a PR move of the ruling SPD party to refurbish their image a bit after many people lost all confidence in local authorities and police for taking away their basic rights and lying to them. On Thursday, Rote Flora will hold a press conference to give their assessment of the current situation.



source: http://revolution-news.com/hamburg-danger-zones-lifted-city-may-buy-rote-flora/

[Sasha]

also:


"It is 95 years today since Rosa Luxemburg was murdered by the German Social Democratic Party at the hands of the Freikorps. With a flawless display of good timing, the SPD celebrate by planning a demonstration against 'left wing violence'."

:rolleyes:

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

also:



:rolleyes:

They were hoping for a "10,000 people turnout" like the "2012 summer demonstrations against right-wing violence". I bloody well hope they struggle to get a hundred useful idiots to show up.

[bill]

They were hoping for a "10,000 people turnout" like the "2012 summer demonstrations against right-wing violence". I bloody well hope they struggle to get a hundred useful idiots to show up.

What is a "useful idiot"?

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

What is a "useful idiot"?

Someone who unwittingly serves, say, a reactionary agenda, without being much aware of it all the while.

[Leo]

Seriously, does no one have an answer to any of my questions? Doesn't anyone have an idea what's actually going on in Germany?

[bcbm]

Seriously, does no one have an answer to any of my questions? Doesn't anyone have an idea what's actually going on in Germany?

the latest article psycho posted seems to answer a few of them re: numbers, feeling of the locals, etc

[Sasha]

Seriously, does no one have an answer to any of my questions? Doesn't anyone have an idea what's actually going on in Germany?


within the not yet gentrified area's of the town there is massive support, the lampedusa refugee struggle has been a hot and popular topic for quite some time and for even longer (since 2009) a radical, popular and relatively successful anti-gentrification campaign has been running called "recht auf Stadt" (http://www.rechtaufstadt.net/), whats happening now should be viewed in that context.