Political Parties in the Soviet System

[Marshal of the People]

Just a quick question.

In the system of Soviet Democracy ho do you think it would work without political parties? (I think it would work fine without political parties)

And what do you think about political parties in general? I personally think they are useful at the moment though in a socialist or communist society I think they should not be necessary because I think Soviet democracy (also known as council democracy) is a good political system and political parties would not be needed in it.

[Logical seal]

wow wow wow

dude, This is a actual ideology, its called council-communism.

In other words, Depends on what ideology you are, Me personally, I dont think it would work.

[Marshal of the People]

wow wow wow

dude, This is a actual ideology, its called council-communism.

In other words, Depends on what ideology you are, Me personally, I dont think it would work.

Thanks for the quick reply, how helpful (I think?).

EDIT: I think I may be a council communist (or council socialist at least), I have have to look into it right away. Thanks Logical Seal you sure are logical. :D.

[Logical seal]

allways tell your self you can do it.

and you might be able to pull a banna out of your ass, and bring about a revoultion.

[Marshal of the People]

allways tell your self you can do it.

and you might be able to pull a banna out of your ass, and bring about a revoultion.

Okay... I have no idea what that means... :confused:

[Remus Bleys]

allways tell your self you can do it.

and you might be able to pull a banna out of your ass, and bring about a revoultion.
Im just so confused by this statement.

Also OP, I've always viewed the soviet system as being at its bottom a sort of mass direct democracy but with the leaders of the administration of local soviets being party members, and all functions higher being party members as well.

[Marshal of the People]

Im just so confused by this statement.

Also OP, I've always viewed the soviet system as being at its bottom a sort of mass direct democracy but with the leaders of the administration of local soviets being party members, and all functions higher being party members as well.

Yes, I guess Logical Seal doesn't really live up to his name.

I personally think direct democracy is the only way to ensure actual democracy. I think that the councils (or soviets) should be independent of any political party or other outside interest, they should be controlled directly by the people and they should directly serve the people. That is just my opinion anyway.

[Logical seal]

Im just so confused by this statement.

Also OP, I've always viewed the soviet system as being at its bottom a sort of mass direct democracy but with the leaders of the administration of local soviets being party members, and all functions higher being party members as well.

its advice remus, You can't be over-zealousy serious about everything when it comes to the left, People dont like those type of people

Take slavoj zizek for example.

A reason a majority of people like him, Is becuse he can say his thoughts perfectionally like a person needs to hear it, And doesent sound like a grumpy old man while saying it.

[Remus Bleys]

its advice remus, You can't be over-zealousy serious about everything when it comes to the left, People dont like those type of people

Take slavoj zizek for example.

A reason a majority of people like him, Is becuse he can say his thoughts perfectionally like a person needs to hear it, And doesent sound like a grumpy old man while saying it.
i will be sincerely shocked when someone understands what you meant by your "advice"
and this "you are grumpy" is just... pathetic. Sure you see how easily irritable i am in other threads, but not in this one. Please stop commenting on it. In fact, ive never been "grumpy" with you anyway.

[Remus Bleys]

Yes, I guess Logical Seal doesn't really live up to his name.

I personally think direct democracy is the only way to ensure actual democracy. I think that the councils (or soviets) should be independent of any political party or other outside interest, they should be controlled directly by the people and they should directly serve the people. That is just my opinion anyway. I don't uphold Soviet Mass Democracy becasue I like democracy, and I do think in certain situations the will of the majority must be curbed. I just see some form of soviet mass democracy (which itself is both democratic and anti-democratic) as one of the few viable ways that workers can keep proletarian dictatorship afoot.
If an alternative situation presents itself that somehow is as effective in maintaining proletarian rule and being non-democratic, id probably take that. I just don't see it.

[Marshal of the People]

I don't uphold Soviet Mass Democracy becasue I like democracy, and I do think in certain situations the will of the people must be curbed. I just see some form of soviet mass democracy (which itself is both democratic and anti-democratic) as one of the few viable ways that workers can keep proletarian dictatorship afoot.
If an alternative situation presents itself that somehow is as effective in maintaining proletarian rule and being non-democratic, id probably take that. I just don't see it.

I also agree the will of the people must be curbed but only if the peoples will harms them or anyone else.


If an alternative situation presents itself that somehow is as effective in maintaining proletarian rule and being non-democratic, id probably take that.

Why don't you like democracy? Aren't you afraid a dictatorship will gain power and become the new bourgeois like what happened in the USSR?

[Remus Bleys]

Why don't you like democracy?
because it is based on an argumentum ad populum, just because the majority of a group think something is right does not make it right. If we had democracy for say, the way we would deal with the environment, and put the proletariat in charge of this in its current state with no supervision, we would end up with some pretty bad ecological disasters (a majority of americans don't think that humans affect global warming iirc).
Thus, one must wonder, what exactly about the majority agreeing with something makes it correct or good or just? Nothing at all - it is an end, a tool, it will only been used when it is beneficial to use.
There is also the fact that democracy, which is the rule of the people, is a contradiction in terms. Society is composed of the bourgeois and the proletariat - they cannot rule together - either the proletariat is the ruling class or the bourgeois is. This "rule of the people" is impossible therefore.
Furthermore, in a stateless society, why would i want "the people" to rule me? What exactly would they do for me, and why, and why do they have this power?
I mean, Dauve to Lenin both agreed communism would not be democratic.

[Marshal of the People]

because it is based on an argumentum ad populum, just because the majority of a group think something is right does not make it right. If we had democracy for say, the way we would deal with the environment, and put the proletariat in charge of this in its current state with no supervision, we would end up with some pretty bad ecological disasters (a majority of americans don't think that humans affect global warming iirc).
Thus, one must wonder, what exactly about the majority agreeing with something makes it correct or good or just? Nothing at all - it is an end, a tool, it will only been used when it is beneficial to use.
There is also the fact that democracy, which is the rule of the people, is a contradiction in terms. Society is composed of the bourgeois and the proletariat - they cannot rule together - either the proletariat is the ruling class or the bourgeois is. This "rule of the people" is impossible therefore.
Furthermore, in a stateless society, why would i want "the people" to rule me? What exactly would they do for me, and why, and why do they have this power?
I mean, Dauve to Lenin both agreed communism would not be democratic.

So what do you propose instead?

[Remus Bleys]

So what do you propose instead?
I don't propose anything. It is not my job, nor do i have the abilities, to predict what form the organic movement of communism will take.

[Marshal of the People]

I don't propose anything. It is not my job, nor do i have the abilities, to predict what form the organic movement of communism will take.

While I don't necessarily agree with that or your views on democracy, thanks for your valued input.

[Logical seal]

err, Well Random comments like that, Are what I say most of the time in real life, Sometimes it excapes into the universe but uh...wont happen again.


The reason why I think soviets need poltical parties is:

If they dont have a offcial party in, Then there liable to be penetrated by capialist roaders, who will then revert it to wage-slavery.

and we all do not want that do we.

[Marshal of the People]

err, Well Random comments like that, Are what I say most of the time in real life, Sometimes it excapes into the universe but uh...wont happen again.


The reason why I think soviets need poltical parties is:

If they dont have a offcial party in, Then there liable to be penetrated by capialist roaders, who will then revert it to wage-slavery.

and we all do not want that do we.

Yes I agree, thank you.