Arcata, CA Bans Plastic Bags

[Skyhilist]

http://www.times-standard.com/localnews/ci_24659251/arcata-city-council-passes-plastic-bag-ban-safe

Well this is fairly nice. Arcata now has bans on fast food chains, plastic bags, growing of GE crops within city limits, and nuclear weapons. And they also have a cool ecologically sound wastewater treatment system using their Humboldt State University, where I was recently accepted. They're also only half an hour from Redwood National Park and have a community forest with large Redwood trees in it. Being in the middle of the Emerald Triangle also seems like a nice bonus.

Seems like a pretty cool place to live and somewhere where I might like to move very soon. Do you guys have any insights or thoughts about Arcata, or any thoughts about the new things they've banned? I mean don't get me wrong they've still got problems just like everywhere else with capitalism, but still, seems like a pretty cool place.

What do you guys think though?

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

In my experience, towns that embrace progressive issues like this always seem to have an insane cost of living. So what looks like good public policy is in reality a collective pet project for the wealthy liberal inhabitants to brag about at their next dinner party. Great if you can afford it, alienating as hell if you can't.

Here in Ohio we have a town named Yellowsprings which seems like an equivalent. Very progressive, lots of arts and community groups etc. But if you're just visiting, which is probably the case because it's expensive to live there, it's basically a left-wing tourist trap. Lots of crafts and $30 organic meals, show your solidarity by gouging the hell out of other progressives for your shitty healing crystals! Neat bike trails and parks though.

[Skyhilist]

I get what you're saying, and I have definitely gotten that feeling in places like Sedona, AZ. But surprisingly, the cost of living doesn't seem to be too high in Arcata. Stuff isn't overly expensive, rent is only like $350/mo and the college is actually the cheapest of the 6 schools I've been looking at. Who knows though, that might be because their economy is largely dependent on marijuana so they don't have to use things like expensive organic meals and yoga sessions and shit like that to support themselves and also a fairly active radical community, at least compared to most places.

Also, they have an Earth First! chapter, an anarchist bookfair every year.

[Lily Briscoe]

I've known some homeless hippies who have 'set up camp' (lol) in Arcata (I always assumed it was 'Arcada' until I saw this thread) while seeking, erm.. employment, but that's about all I know about it. It sounds pretty lame from the original post though tbh. Maybe not if you're a hippie, though.

[Ele'ill]

great idea banning plastic bags here in the pnw, now everyone's paper grocery bags turn to pulp within seconds of walking out of the grocery store "are you walking today?" IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU DOUBLE BAG IT IT'S TWO PAPER BAGS IN AN OCEAN

[Skyhilist]

I mean you could bring reusable bags if it's that bad lol. Also there was this one store I remember where they put groceries in this box thing, but it also had a handle. It seemed pretty nifty.

[Skyhilist]

I've known some homeless hippies who have 'set up camp' (lol) in Arcata (I always assumed it was 'Arcada' until I saw this thread) while seeking, erm.. employment, but that's about all I know about it. It sounds pretty lame from the original post though tbh. Maybe not if you're a hippie, though.

Yeah there are hippies but there are also radicals. I'll just try to steer clear of the trustafarians I guess if I do move there lol

[Ele'ill]

I mean you could bring reusable bags if it's that bad lol


do food stamps cover that

[Skyhilist]

do food stamps cover that

They're like $0.99 I think, but I see your point. No one could blame you for stealing some though, and I'd gladly give them to anyone who I knew could use them. But yeah I agree that does suck. But banning plastic bags I still think has a net positive impact although I can see how in the PNW in the rain it could be a pain in the ass.

[Os Cangaceiros]

No fast food? Lame.

[Os Cangaceiros]

It's like that on the east end of Suffolk County, too, where I used to live. They don't allow chain stores (except for Starbucks, cuz the yuppies gotta have their coffee)

[Marshal of the People]

What is wrong with genetically engineered crops? They could potentially save lives in developing nations as well as improve the health of people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_rice

[Skyhilist]

No fast food? Lame.

It's my understanding that there is fast food: just that fast food chains can't build MORE restaurants there (so maybe my initial post was misleading). And of course, there are at least a few fast food-like restaurants that just aren't chains. Anyways, it's nice in my opinion to see a town not completely overrun by McDonald's, Wendy's, Burger King, WalMart, etc.

[Skyhilist]

What is wrong with genetically engineered crops? They could potentially save lives in developing nations as well as improve the health of people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_rice

That's not really the point of this thread. Start a new thread if you want to have this debate. Perhaps someone who hasn't already had this discussion a million times would care to indulge you.

[hatzel]

Arcata now has bans on fast food chains, plastic bags, growing of GE crops within city limits, and nuclear weapons.

Urgh. Seriously, if you look at stuff like this and think 'yes, this is a reasonable group of people, doing the right thing by banning nuclear weapons' rather than 'wow, what a bunch of pathetic posers making out like they actually did anything by banning nuclear weapons' then you really need to reassess a) politics; b) reality.

Oh yeah and just remind me isn't this the same city council that needed a court judge to tell them (http://articles.latimes.com/2012/sep/27/local/la-me-arcata-panhandling-20120927) they weren't actually allowed to ban panhandling? Yeah, definitely doesn't sound like a town of privileged ego-caressing wankers trying to show everybody why they're, like, better people and all that...

[BIXX]

great idea banning plastic bags here in the pnw, now everyone's paper grocery bags turn to pulp within seconds of walking out of the grocery store "are you walking today?" IT DOESN'T MATTER IF YOU DOUBLE BAG IT IT'S TWO PAPER BAGS IN AN OCEAN


Hahahaha so fucking true. I hate when they give me that pulp waiting to happen. It only makes sense if you drive, and even then those stupid weak handles (if they even have handles) break like, all the time.

Plus plastic bags can be re-used as poop bags for your pets.

Honestly, plastic bags are good for poor folks in our current system. Presumably, we would have better shit to work with during communism but I have no idea what it is. Probably primarily growing your own food.

[Skyhilist]

Urgh. Seriously, if you look at stuff like this and think 'yes, this is a reasonable group of people, doing the right thing by banning nuclear weapons' rather than 'wow, what a bunch of pathetic posers making out like they actually did anything by banning nuclear weapons' then you really need to reassess a) politics; b) reality.

Let me get clear - I don't presume that things like that actually do anything. However, they are an indication that people at least aren't a bunch of brain dead militarists, which is a nice change from some of the places I've lived.


Oh yeah and just remind me isn't this the same city council that needed a court judge to tell them (http://articles.latimes.com/2012/sep/27/local/la-me-arcata-panhandling-20120927) they weren't actually allowed to ban panhandling? Yeah, definitely doesn't sound like a town of privileged ego-caressing wankers trying to show everybody why they're, like, better people and all that...

You're right that is pretty lame.

[Skyhilist]

Hahahaha so fucking true. I hate when they give me that pulp waiting to happen. It only makes sense if you drive, and even then those stupid weak handles (if they even have handles) break like, all the time.

Plus plastic bags can be re-used as poop bags for your pets.

Honestly, plastic bags are good for poor folks in our current system. Presumably, we would have better shit to work with during communism but I have no idea what it is. Probably primarily growing your own food.

I get what you're saying, but ultimately the existence of plastic bags do more harm than good. They might be a nice convenience, and you might personally be able to reuse them, but where most of them end up and their environmental impact makes it so that the benefits of banning them outweigh the negatives.

[Lily Briscoe]

Plastic bags - the defining question of our times.

[Skyhilist]

MN8JYhByVYg

[Rss]

Have you people heard of canvas bags? Or backpacks? Or string-bags?

[Ele'ill]

are they the free alternative?

[Quail]

I generally use my rucksack and some reusable bags for my shopping, but I also get plastic bags because they work as like... free bin liners, etc. I don't think banning plastic bags is really the way to go tbh. There are other ways of encouraging people not to use them or to reuse them, etc.

[Rss]

are they the free alternative?

Wait, are you talking about those shitty thin dinky plastic bags they give out for free or those thick durable ones which you can use over and over again?

[Skyhilist]

If you buy a cloth bag for a few dollars (sometimes as cheap as a buck) and shop at certain stores it eventually pays for itself because you get like a 5 cent discount often for having a reusable bag at many stores. Or just steal one or whatever. I'm fairly certain something that costs like 99 cents shouldn't be too hard to attain.

[Skyhilist]

There are other ways of encouraging people not to use them or to reuse them, etc.

It'd be nice if people would listen, people tend to be stubborn though. I mean if you use plastic bags as liners though (as opposed to having them end up in some trash gyre), it's not like you couldn't just go a town over to get them or find some old ones you'd saved or something.

[RedHal]

they tried this here in my town, all it did was allow grocery stores to charge 5 cents per plastic bag. Now I'm always short on garbage bags, now they expect us to buy garbage bags?

[BIXX]

It'd be nice if people would listen, people tend to be stubborn though. I mean if you use plastic bags as liners though (as opposed to having them end up in some trash gyre), it's not like you couldn't just go a town over to get them or find some old ones you'd saved or something.


Some of us don't have that kind of time.

Paper vs plastic is kinda a bullshit thing, tbh. Banning them makes my life harder when I go shopping, cause you can't carry as much food back (esp cause they often tear and need to be double bagged, and don't get me started on those fucking handles). So, a solution? Don't walk, but drive!

Which is obviously SSSOOOOO great for the environment.

And then throw them away. I mean, you can reuse them, but you can also reuse plastic ones.

I guess what I'm getting at is that banning a bag isn't the right idea, as it assumes a one-size-fits-all solution.

This problem seemed like less of a big deal when I was in the Dominican Republic, people only having enough money to buy what they needed that night, so they'd only buy a few items, so they often reused the same bag or were able to carry their few items rather easily without one.

So, I think if people were to live more like that in other countries (I'm sure there are others I just don't have experience to back that up) it wouldn't be such a big deal. Buying what you need that night instead of buying enough food to feed everyone for a week or two (like many seem to do), would mean less to carry so it'd be more practical to have a single bag that you reuse or even just your hands and arms.

Of course when capitalism and other oppressive structures have been abolished people will be more free to do this, I would think. I imagine more people would be growing their own food, and when they get food wouldn't be determined by their paycheck.

[Skyhilist]

I see what you're getting at, although I still think that the impact of a few plastic bags in the environment each trip is probably worse than driving a few miles. The majority of people (I know not everyone) seem to drive anyways, so I think it at least makes sense for those people.

Plastic has a pretty big environmental impact though so what would you guys propose instead as a practicle short term solution that would cause people to you know, reduce the amount of shit that they're responsible for consuming and disposing of that ends up in a big trash gyre or killing some bird or turtle or something? I mean it can't all be a matter of convenience.

[Queen Mab]

A revolution without plastic bags is a revolution not worth having

[BIXX]

I see what you're getting at, although I still think that the impact of a few plastic bags in the environment each trip is probably worse than driving a few miles. The majority of people (I know not everyone) seem to drive anyways, so I think it at least makes sense for those people.

Plastic has a pretty big environmental impact though so what would you guys propose instead as a practicle short term solution that would cause people to you know, reduce the amount of shit that they're responsible for consuming and disposing of that ends up in a big trash gyre or killing some bird or turtle or something? I mean it can't all be a matter of convenience.


I think the impact is probably equal, when you consider that paper bags still are bad for the environment, even to a lesser extent.

However, regarding what I italicized, I think that fixin the environment SHOULDN'T be, but at the same time we have issues that are affecting us right now so convenience is something that eases pressure on us a lot, when we don't even have enough food all the time.

Like I said, if people were somehow willing to buy less at one time, the our problem would be fine. However this is again, more work, and people want to avoid that as much as possible.