pipeline through my hometown water supply

[adipocere]

If you want, please sign this petition (https://www.change.org/petitions/the-alabama-supreme-court-and-governor-robert-bentley-support-a-requirement-that-plains-southcap-reroute-their-oil-pipeline-away-from-big-creek-lake-in-mobile-county-and-at-their-own-expense). The gulf coast is already wrecked enough. Now Chevron and pals are trying to destroy the land as well.
Our water is still a public utility - apparently it's fighting the company in court. The petition is to the supreme court and the governor of Alabama.


/sigh

[Remus Bleys]

petition? really?

[adipocere]

petition? really?
what is your suggestion? spray paint a fucking anarchy sign on the side of it? the only thing more useless than petitions are assholes like you.

[Remus Bleys]

Oh so internet hardman.

Im not even a fucking anarchist. I don't know, your part of a party, protest! Get people worked up, Im sure they already are. But petition? Because those have been so historically helpful?

[adipocere]

Oh so internet hardman.

Im not even a fucking anarchist. I don't know, your part of a party, protest! Get people worked up, Im sure they already are. But petition? Because those have been so historically helpful?

I'm not even sure anyone here is really aware of this - particularity that they are trying to use eminent domain to seize land belonging to the water utility. The political process in Alabama is cartoonishly corrupt.

Anyway it's all I can do right now, at this moment.

[Quail]

Remus Bleys - sarcastic one-liners like this:

petition? really?
are rude, not constructive and count as spam, and this isn't exactly an isolated incident.

This is a verbal warning, and if I see you post anything like this anywhere else on the forum you will receive an infraction.

[helot]

what is your suggestion? spray paint a fucking anarchy sign on the side of it? the only thing more useless than petitions are assholes like you.

I kind of take exception to that as i am an anachist and my response would be 'organise'.



I'm not even sure anyone here is really aware of this - particularity that they are trying to use eminent domain to seize land belonging to the water utility. The political process in Alabama is cartoonishly corrupt.

Anyway it's all I can do right now, at this moment.

Do you know when the plan to go ahead with it is? If barely anyone's aware of it that's the first port of call; to disseminate info and try to agitate.

[Remus Bleys]

Remus Bleys - sarcastic one-liners like this:

are rude, not constructive and count as spam, and this isn't exactly an isolated incident.

This is a verbal warning, and if I see you post anything like this anywhere else on the forum you will receive an infraction.

I don't really understand this to be honest. The usefulness of a petition is a bit null and void, as it relies on the notion that "the people" actually control the state and that through the state "the people" can force a corporation to stop doing x. A petition is in this respect not only inherently reformist but also naive.
I can't help but feel absurd when a "petition" is offered up on a website called "Revolutionary Left." I feel that it should go without saying that petitions are ineffective, and internet petitions doubly so. What does the opinion of some guy in Ohio matter to a business drilling an oil pipeline somewhere in Alabama?
I mean, why do I really need to explain that petitions are liberal and ineffective, and instead real opposition in the real world should be the weapon of choice?

[Quail]

I don't think that petitions are useful either, to be honest, except for particular circumstances like supporting asylum seekers. But there are ways of going about discussing what could be done instead of/as well as a petition where you don't actually have to be rude to the person you're talking to.

[Ele'ill]

what are petitions going to do, what is the anticipated outcome if there are billions and billions of signatures?

[blake 3:17]

Signed it. Please share about what's going on & any ways expression of solidarity could be useful.

[adipocere]

what are petitions going to do, what is the anticipated outcome if there are billions and billions of signatures?

The petition is specifically to the Governor of Alabama. The outcome is that the Governor may read it, though we are talking about the state where Karl Rove engineered the imprisonment of one governor to aid Bush. (The night Siegelman was reelected in 2002 someone literally stole the ballots in the back of a pickup truck and returned them the next day with Bob Riley as a winner. Siegelman was then put in federal prison (http://free-don.org/) where he still is today. - It's an interesting story by itself) As I said, politics are cartoonishly corrupt here. I doubt a petition would do anything, but certainly smug nihilism is just wind in the sails for fracking.

Anyway, if you want to see how a medium sized city gets bulldozed by oil interests:
http://blog.al.com/live/2013/07/mobile_city_council_endorses_r.html

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

Fracking is getting a lot of national attention and there have even been a few small victories of towns successfully banning the practice, so I don't think organizing is that unrealistic, even in Alabama. Fucking with the water supply is something that should be able to transcend the bullshit red vs blue paradigm at a local level. Are there local town meetings you can attend to at least try to bring up the issue to local residents? They may be totally in the dark about it.

I don't want to jump on your for the petition but for something like this, a passive response may as well be no response. You're going to have to group up and start some shit on this issue, this isn't a public park or historically significant landmark, its your fucking water.

[adipocere]

Fracking is getting a lot of national attention and there have even been a few small victories of towns successfully banning the practice, so I don't think organizing is that unrealistic, even in Alabama. Fucking with the water supply is something that should be able to transcend the bullshit red vs blue paradigm at a local level. Are there local town meetings you can attend to at least try to bring up the issue to local residents? They may be totally in the dark about it.

I don't want to jump on your for the petition but for something like this, a passive response may as well be no response. You're going to have to group up and start some shit on this issue, this isn't a public park or historically significant landmark, its your fucking water.

That is my attitude. I don't exactly live in Mobile, it's just where my family is, and I don't have many connections there anymore but I've been thinking about more active things I could do.

One of the problems about this city is that it's sprawling, atomized, racially segregated and right-wing Christian. There are communities within it - the monied enclaves, the churches and the black community and miles and miles of poor necks outside the city limits. Historically, the only thing that galvanized people in this city was oppressing blacks. Anyway, I'm still considering...

[Remus Bleys]

I doubt a petition would do anything, but certainly smug nihilism is just wind in the sails for fracking.
Not signing a petition =/= doing nothing
In fact, right here you state that you don't think a petition would work, so it would seem that you admit that signing a petition = doing nothing. So creating this and passing it all around really does seem to be a waste of time, effort, resources etc when you could be organizing.

[Ele'ill]

The petition is specifically to the Governor of Alabama.

and do you think they/their class position benefits from the pipeline



smug nihilism is just wind in the sails for fracking.

i think irrelevantly symbolic forms of action keep the sailboat afloat

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

In defense of petitions:

They're not very good for their ostensible purpose, as a tool for lobbying, however, they can be a great conversation starter. I question their usefulness in this particular context (specifically, RevLeft - an informative thread in the Ongoing Struggles forum might be a better bet), but if you want to go door-to-door, or set up an info table, they're pretty invaluable. They're a great way of feeling out where people stand and getting their contact info in one go.
I worked for a while for an ENGO going door to door and, while on one hand I thought the whole project was pretty useless, I did end up with a notebook full of names, addresses, and notes about people's political opinions, feelings about the tar sands, etc.
Of course, what's important is the interaction and the note-taking, not the petition per se. As for internet petitions, well . . . I confess, I don't necessarily see them being particularly more useful than a tweet or a facebook status (ie hardly).

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

In defense of petitions:

They're not very good for their ostensible purpose, as a tool for lobbying, however, they can be a great conversation starter. I question their usefulness in this particular context (specifically, RevLeft - an informative thread in the Ongoing Struggles forum might be a better bet), but if you want to go door-to-door, or set up an info table, they're pretty invaluable. They're a great way of feeling out where people stand and getting their contact info in one go.
I worked for a while for an ENGO going door to door and, while on one hand I thought the whole project was pretty useless, I did end up with a notebook full of names, addresses, and notes about people's political opinions, feelings about the tar sands, etc.
Of course, what's important is the interaction and the note-taking, not the petition per se. As for internet petitions, well . . . I confess, I don't necessarily see them being particularly more useful than a tweet or a facebook status (ie hardly).


I was going to post something similar. The petition might actually be useful, but only if you take it out into your community. You can use this to raise the issue with your neighbors. Bring information about this specific project along with information about the human and environmental impact of fracking. 90% of the people you talk to might not give a shit but the few that do can become a hard core for the next step of actually organizing against it.