Propaganda game?

[Full Metal Bolshevik]

Nowadays making a videogame is easier than ever. I wonder if we could take this advantage and create a game that spreads knowledge about Socialism and Communism.

Of course, as a 'gamer' I'd demand a good game, not just propaganda. But take a look at Papers Please, a simple game but interesting for many people (even if I found the gameplay a little exhausting).
Or look at 1979 Revolution (Kickstarter campaign) watch?v=RSkRThUScVg It certainly looks interesting.

Wouldn't it be feasible for us to make a game like this? A fictional futuristic or alternative revolution where the characters tells the story about communism and capitalism and they overthrow the current system. It doesn't even have to be a revolution, it could be just informative as long as it keeps players interested.

What do you think?

[tuwix]

I think it's waste of time. World socialist revolution won't come from game, but from failure of capitalism.

[Glitchcraft]

I agree with the above statement but I would still play. sign me up as tester.

[Halert]

I'm a decent programmer, i have good experience with developing video game. If you need a programmer i'm willing to take part in the project.

[Hrafn]

I think it's waste of time. World socialist revolution won't come from game, but from failure of capitalism.

Oh I guess I won't bother putting up any of these leftist posters either, they won't spark a world revolution after all

[Full Metal Bolshevik]

I think it's waste of time. World socialist revolution won't come from game, but from failure of capitalism.How can people make a revolution if they don't know about Communism?
The purpose of the game is to spread information.


I'm a decent programmer, i have good experience with developing video game. If you need a programmer i'm willing to take part in the project.
Thanks :)
This was just an idea that came to me yesterday, but I do not have anything concrete, which is normal considering I know nothing about programming. The only thing I have going on for me is that I've been playing games since before I have memories, and I'm very observant, so I kinda feel confident in making one.
Main issue is that I know much less about Communism that some of you, I'm still in the learning phase (aren't we all?), I have lots of stuff to read, so I lack the confidence in portraying Communism right.

Anyone has more opinions on this?

[xxxxxx666666]

This was just an idea that came to me yesterday, but I do not have anything concrete, which is normal considering I know nothing about programming. The only thing I have going on for me is that I've been playing games since before I have memories, and I'm very observant, so I kinda feel confident in making one.
Main issue is that I know much less about Communism that some of you, I'm still in the learning phase (aren't we all?), I have lots of stuff to read, so I lack the confidence in portraying Communism right.

Anyone has more opinions on this?

Don't worry there are lots of people in the learning phase (like me, and I'll even say I'll forever stay in a learning phase forever, one should never stop learning ;))

As for a possible starting point, here's a link to Karl Marx on online-literature where one may read Karl Marx's works for free:

http://www.online-literature.com/karl-marx/

That is if you haven't read them already.;)

Good luck and I look forward to your game!:)

[Panda Tse Tung]

Depending on the engine i might be able to help.

[BIXX]

It would be cool if the game had a library that you could look at all the texts from Marxists.org and theanarchistlibrary.com etc... Plus other literature. It'd be interesting to leave the characters political development to the choice of the player, but ensure they'd witness the horrid out world has to offer, and from there the player decides what they think is correct.

[Brandon's Impotent Rage]

Although I'm all in favor of making a game to spread class consciousness...we have to be extremely careful at how we go about it.

Extra Credits did a video on the topic of propaganda games, and they bring up some issues that we need to pay attention to:

UP4_bMhZ4gA

You have to be careful that you are spreading awareness and NOT actively misinforming your audience.

[Crabbensmasher]

On a somewhat related note, I'd love to see a remake of Crisis in the Kremlin. You know, recreate it to play in browser, expand the game's material, find new videoclips, new music/sound. It would be a really easy project, because there's basically a blueprint sitting right in front of you.

[Full Metal Bolshevik]

I'm a decent programmer, i have good experience with developing video game. If you need a programmer i'm willing to take part in the project.


Depending on the engine i might be able to help.
What type of stuff can you do?


It would be cool if the game had a library that you could look at all the texts from Marxists.org and theanarchistlibrary.com etc... Plus other literature. It'd be interesting to leave the characters political development to the choice of the player, but ensure they'd witness the horrid out world has to offer, and from there the player decides what they think is correct.
Great idea about the library!

It's hard to think about what we could do without knowing what the programers are capable of doing, as I said, I know nothing about programing. But I was thinking showing the prespective of the protagonist in the working enviornment, maybe experiencing work itself, the challenge would be how to make it interesting for the player. Show a bit of the annoying things we see in real life, like workers turning on other workers because of gender or wages. But as the game progresses we see the working class gaining consciousness.

But I don't know how to make the player deciding what they think is correct. What if they do what we don't want them to do? We'd program the game to go a different way?

Also, maybe having more than one prespective could be better, like having 3 different protagonists in 3 different parts of the world, having different but similar experiences at the same time.


Although I'm all in favor of making a game to spread class consciousness...we have to be extremely careful at how we go about it.

Extra Credits did a video on the topic of propaganda games, and they bring up some issues that we need to pay attention to:

UP4_bMhZ4gA

You have to be careful that you are spreading awareness and NOT actively misinforming your audience.
I'm familiar with Extra Credits :)
And that thought never passed through my mind.


Thanks for the input :)

[Red Economist]

But I don't know how to make the player deciding what they think is correct. What if they do what we don't want them to do? We'd program the game to go a different way?

Gaming is a form of interactive 'problem-solving'. Instead of presenting the 'ideology' as literature, you get them to play their way through the decisions as game play (or as the Extra Credits Video said- use the game mechanics...) e.g. Do you start a revolution in the city or the countryside? Do you organize a centralized party or a much looser association etc, with each decision changing the outcome over time. To some extent this follows a Marxist position of establishing truth via 'practice', only in a virtual environment. But, this is why as Brandon's Impotent rage said, the line between educating and indoctrinating is very thin in such a medium. It depends on the way the game mechanics and content are designed. A game should set a situation, raise the problems for the players to solve, not pre-determine the conclusions. So it would have to be fairly open and free.

It might actually be true to say that the kind of people who would play a 'revolution' game will already be fairly left-wing (or just think communism is cool) so you could end up 'preaching to the converted'.

Would recommend having a look at 'Republic:The Revolution'. It's a poor game (in terms of gameplay) but dealt with the same subject matter. It major failing is the plot is extremly linear, so it's worth thinking about whether you want MORE than one way to win (or lose) the game... as this reduces the chance of it being pure propaganda and also makes it re-playable and an ideologically diverse moral landscape for players to explore.

[Comrade #138672]

I think it's a nice idea. It should at least be given a try. Who knows, it might be good.

[BIXX]

The biggest issue is that a game like this would need an extremely advanced AI, both in the areas of group mechanics as well as programming the computer to have its own "feelings".

That way the AI would reflect reality closer, IMO.

[Skyhilist]

I think it's waste of time. World socialist revolution won't come from game, but from failure of capitalism.

In chemistry, the activation energy necessary for a reaction to take place is lowered by the presence of a catalyst. Lets think about where else this might be applicable...

[Full Metal Bolshevik]

Gaming is a form of interactive 'problem-solving'. Instead of presenting the 'ideology' as literature, you get them to play their way through the decisions as game play (or as the Extra Credits Video said- use the game mechanics...) e.g. Do you start a revolution in the city or the countryside? Do you organize a centralized party or a much looser association etc, with each decision changing the outcome over time. To some extent this follows a Marxist position of establishing truth via 'practice', only in a virtual environment. But, this is why as Brandon's Impotent rage said, the line between educating and indoctrinating is very thin in such a medium. It depends on the way the game mechanics and content are designed. A game should set a situation, raise the problems for the players to solve, not pre-determine the conclusions. So it would have to be fairly open and free.

It might actually be true to say that the kind of people who would play a 'revolution' game will already be fairly left-wing (or just think communism is cool) so you could end up 'preaching to the converted'.

Would recommend having a look at 'Republic:The Revolution'. It's a poor game (in terms of gameplay) but dealt with the same subject matter. It major failing is the plot is extremly linear, so it's worth thinking about whether you want MORE than one way to win (or lose) the game... as this reduces the chance of it being pure propaganda and also makes it re-playable and an ideologically diverse moral landscape for players to explore.

Yeah, after reading the examples you gave I felt that I was being short sighted. I was thinking that the player could opt to go against the revolution and support bourgeoise and couldn't imagine a way to do that :P
But yes, the details of the revolution should be up to the player.

I think if the game is good, people will play it irregardless of their thoughts on the issue, specially if it's well marketed.

I'll take a look into that game.

[BIXX]

Yeah, after reading the examples you gave I felt that I was being short sighted. I was thinking that the player could opt to go against the revolution and support bourgeoise and couldn't imagine a way to do that :P

But yes, the details of the revolution should be up to the player.



I think if the game is good, people will play it irregardless of their thoughts on the issue, specially if it's well marketed.



I'll take a look into that game.


I think if you showed the player just how poisonous life today is, then they would be likely to swing our way (maybe not, however). But I think a big issue is that we should try to make the plot not revolve around that player, but rather the real world, which the player is a part of.

Certain events in the game world (police killings, protests, etc...) would happen even if the player stayed home and did nothing all day, just like real life. I don't think we should make the revolution depend on the player, no matter how tempting.

[Full Metal Bolshevik]

I think if you showed the player just how poisonous life today is, then they would be likely to swing our way (maybe not, however). But I think a big issue is that we should try to make the plot not revolve around that player, but rather the real world, which the player is a part of.

Certain events in the game world (police killings, protests, etc...) would happen even if the player stayed home and did nothing all day, just like real life. I don't think we should make the revolution depend on the player, no matter how tempting.
Agreed, I'm saying the player would be part of it.

Like, the revolution would happen anyway, but the player could choose what to do during it.

Of course, this can't be a game where the protagonist is 'the chosen one' or a 'real hero' since I feel it goes against out principles, but the player has to feel a bit of importance during the game.

[BIXX]

Agreed, I'm saying the player would be part of it.



Like, the revolution would happen anyway, but the player could choose what to do during it.



Of course, this can't be a game where the protagonist is 'the chosen one' or a 'real hero' since I feel it goes against out principles, but the player has to feel a bit of importance during the game.


Yeah. I don't know. It'd be a tough thing to pull off, that's for sure.

[Halert]

To answer your question, my programming skills are quite broad. I have developed flash games, Xbox games, pc games. I have experiance with network programming. I confident that i can handle the project as a programmer.


The biggest issue is that a game like this would need an extremely advanced AI, both in the areas of group mechanics as well as programming the computer to have its own "feelings".

That way the AI would reflect reality closer, IMO.

If we make use of a Multi-agent system it should be doable. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-agent_system

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

1. Just to put it out there, I'm an experienced FQA Tester, and know how to convey things to Devs in ways that make sense.

2. I'd love to see something in the vein of Civ, in terms of play style, but without its crass ideological presumptions. Maybe a healthy dose of SimCity, with a helping of Gramsci?

[Rugged Collectivist]

Wasn't there a Revleft group in the past that attempted to make a visual novel? what happened with that?

[Full Metal Bolshevik]

I've been reading about the Paris Commune, since it's an historial and local event, wouldn't it be easier by starting there? A small game on the event would be nice. The problem is that we lose in the end and the player can't do anything to stop it.

[Comrade #138672]

I've been reading about the Paris Commune, since it's an historial and local event, wouldn't it be easier by starting there? A small game on the event would be nice. The problem is that we lose in the end and the player can't do anything to stop it.Wouldn't that make a terrible propaganda game?

[Full Metal Bolshevik]

Wouldn't that make a terrible propaganda game?

Not necessarily.
If we can make the player emphasize with the characters and the cause, then he would be frustrated at the situation.

[John Lennin]

Who is the taget group?

[Diirez]

I could assist with the writing if needed.

[Brandon's Impotent Rage]

Somebody brought up making a game similar to Civ....and I'd get behind that as well.

I'd think a good basic scenario would be to try and engineer a socialist revolution. This goal could be achieved in game in numerous ways, much how Civ can be won in numerous ways as well.

I'm thinking three major ways:

-A political/democratic revolution that installs socialist politicians in a bourgeoisie system

-A violent, popular revolution that overthrows the State and creates a Dictatorship of the Proletariat

-A Blanquist coup that installs a vanguard party


The goal in the end would be to achieve socialism, but each method would have its own pros and cons.

[Full Metal Bolshevik]

I like the idea too, but I don't play games like Civ often.

[popcorn]

I have an idea, and it's kind of sappy, but how about a multiplayer game that sneakily situates the players as competitors, but the gameplay / levels could function in a way so that -surprise!- you slowly realize that you all need to cooperate in order to win the game. So figuring that out would be the main puzzle to solve, but you still couldn't get anywhere unless everyone else comes to that conclusion too. If there's no way for a player to directly communicate that realization to the other players, it could be interesting to see how the dynamics play out when some people know that they need to cooperate and are willing to sacrifice something of their own in order to finish the game, and others don't know, or just won't do it. I think (I don't know much about game theory) this is something like the Prisoner's Dilemma? Any kind of game (even really simple ones like word games or logic games) could run on this concept, as long as you restrict communication between the players (which would be easy if they're strangers playing over the internet). It wouldn't have to be (and probably shouldn't be, cause it would ruin the surprise), like, explicitly communism-themed, and it would be a cool kind of bait-and-switch propaganda thing too, to make the players (hopefully) have feelings (like frustration, etc) over cooperation. :grin:

[Panda Tse Tung]

What type of stuff can you do?

Not the type of stuff people are discussing currently.

[Full Metal Bolshevik]

Not the type of stuff people are discussing currently.
I asked what can you do, not what you can't do :(

I proposed the idea to the forum, but I really don't know how to approach this, that's why I'm hesitant.