What is the best leftist party that would lead USA into a workers-state?

[AmilcarCabral]

Since Trotsky said that there is no way in this world for the majority of poor people to get out poverty, without joining and supporting a socialist workers party, what do you guys think would be the most authentic leftist party of America? Because I used be part of the socialist party of USA, but I've noticed that most of the socialist party of USA members do not give importance to the founding fathers of socialism and communism (Marx, Engels, Gramsci etc.)

So what is the best leftist party that really believes in a workers government (as a transitional phase toward an anarchist-communist system), and in doing things "by the book" just like Marx and Engels wrote in their works.


.

[Bala Perdida]

I've heard good things about the Party for Socialism and Liberation,PSL. Im not an expert on political parties though.

[AmilcarCabral]

Hi, by the way I got this list of leftist parties from a website called "broadleft". I think that website is down. But anyways here is a list of the main leftist political movements in America:

http://www.frso.org/
http://www.cc-ds.org/
http://www.cpusa.org/
http://www.dsausa.org/dsa.html
http://www.socialism.com/drupal-6.8/
http://www.gpus.org/
http://www.iww.org/
http://www.internationalsocialist.org/
http://www.internationalist.org/
http://www.thelaborparty.org/
http://www.laborstandard.org/
http://www.lrp-cofi.org/
http://www.lrna.org/2-pt/rc.html
http://adams.patriot.net/~cnc/lgn.htm
http://www.leftturn.org/
http://www.nbufront.org/
http://www.newdemocracyworld.org/
http://www.newsandletters.org/issues/2011/Nov-Dec/index.asp
http://www.pslweb.org/
http://www.plp.org/
http://www.socialdemocrats.org/
http://www.socialistaction.org/
http://www.socialistalternative.org/
http://www.slp.org/
http://socialistparty-usa.org/
http://www.debsiantendency.org/
http://www.greenparty.org/index.php
http://the-spark.net/
http://abqrazaunida.blogspot.com/
http://www.uspacifistparty.org/
http://www.usmlo.org/
http://www.progressiveparty.org/
http://www.workerscompass.org/
http://www.workersdemocracy.org
http://www.socialistappeal.org/
http://www.workersparty.org/
http://www.socialism.org.i8.com/
http://workersolidarity.org/
http://www.workers.org/
http://www.workingfamiliesparty.org/



I've heard good things about the Party for Socialism and Liberation,PSL. Im not an expert on political parties though.

[Bala Perdida]

Cool. I look forward to finding out more.

[AmilcarCabral]

Cooperation: The problem i see in the left of the whole world, and in people who want a real change, who I think are the great majority of humans. Is that you see people on Facebook, on the internet, supporting Immigration Reform bills, Climate Change protests, Occupy Protests, black liberation movements and many other progressive movements.

But for some reason that I don't know those same people who are fed up with corporate oligarchic capitalism and with international global bankers, wars and the corruption of bankers, corporations and governments is that most of those people are reluctant to become full active members of leftist workers parties.

People need to realize that time is going real fast, that we will die soon, we will get old soon and that we must join leftist movements. Because alone, reading alternative news and posting articles on Facebook and on discussion boards we won't see a destruction of capitalist governments in any country of the world, and Europe will continue with their neoliberal corporate social-democrat governments and USA will continue with Democrats and Republicans. Africa, Middle East nations, many Asian nations and Latin American nations will continue in poverty



Cool. I look forward to finding out more.

[Bala Perdida]

I think taking part in protests and active demonstrations is the way to go. I mean, I'm relatively new at this so I do some studying when possible.

[Fourth Internationalist]

Since Trotsky said that there is no way in this world for the majority of poor people to get out poverty, without joining and supporting a socialist workers party,

I'm curious as to what his original quote was, as this is a kind of an odd statement.


what do you guys think would be the most authentic leftist party of America?

If we can include any organization, not just parties, then I would say the League for the Revolutionary Party (lrp-cofi.org). Otherwise, I'd have to say that all the "leftist" parties in the U.S. are reformist, social democratic, or Stalinist.


Because I used be part of the socialist party of USA, but I've noticed that most of the socialist party of USA members do not give importance to the founding fathers of socialism and communism (Marx, Engels, Gramsci etc.)

Because they aren't a Marxist party. In fact, they are most certainly an openly reformist party.


So what is the best leftist party that really believes in a workers government (as a transitional phase toward an anarchist-communist system), and in doing things "by the book" just like Marx and Engels wrote in their works.


Why do you label it as an anarcho-communist society, rather than simply a communist society, since you include that you wish to see a non-anarchistic transition to communism?

[Remus Bleys]

I've heard good things about the Party for Socialism and Liberation,PSL. Im not an expert on political parties though.

Oh god not the PSL. They literally uphold modern day China

[Sam_b]

Parties won't lead the USA to a workers state, a mass of the working class will.

[TheMaroon]

I say libertarian socialism. The party pulls from both sides of the political spectrum. It supports the overall demograph, and it is favorable to all classes.

[Czy]

No dose of abstract theory or ivory tower strategizing will lead to revolution. A movement created from the bottom-up, empowering workers through information and knowledge, on the other hand, will.

[Geiseric]

There isn't a viable working class party in the United States, because there isn't a mass political movement in the United States. The two go hand in hand. The people here probably wouldn't even join one if we had a working class party, which is the sad part.

[Bala Perdida]

I say libertarian socialism. The party pulls from both sides of the political spectrum. It supports the overall demograph, and it is favorable to all classes.
Libertarian Socialism is an ideology isn't it? This ideology which involves anarchist variations of socialism.

[G4b3n]

I say libertarian socialism. The party pulls from both sides of the political spectrum. It supports the overall demograph, and it is favorable to all classes.

Libertarian socialism is a far left ideology that favors the suppression of the bourgeoisie and empowerment of the working class just like any other genuine socialist ideology.
Like others have said, there is no working class party because there is no mass working class movement. Even if there was, I believe a revolutionary worker's union would be better equipped for the task.

[CommunistComrade]

I am going with the PSL. We are much more Marxist than the CPUSA, which is essentially democratic, but to a broader extent. Not trying to bash the CPUSA, but that party just does not fulfill my socialist needs.

[AmilcarCabral]

Yeah you are right, i guess that the Communist Party of USA is just like the socialist party of France and the communist party of china. What an evil world this is, of parties that are called "socialist parties" are really capitalist parties

The left is such a mess, so divided, that I think that most poor people of this world are still voting for traditional neoliberal capitalist parties, because humans are not dumb and most people are aware of how the left is divided into too many small parties.

It is the task of the intellectual leaders of the left of this world to create a plan, to invent a plan, on how can see see united revolutionary leftist parties that would be a light at the end of the tunnel for the people of this world that are unemployed, hungry and are living a hell on earth of debts, taxes and economic stress



.



I am going with the PSL. We are much more Marxist than the CPUSA, which is essentially democratic, but to a broader extent. Not trying to bash the CPUSA, but that party just does not fulfill my socialist needs.

[Prometeo liberado]

I am going with the PSL. We are much more Marxist than the CPUSA, which is essentially democratic Wow, if the cpusa is your standard then you have waaay too much other shit to worry about than this thread. Yet you are dead right in that the very non-democratic(again small 'd') cpusa is democratic compared to the foolishly dictatorial ways of the psl.

[Proteus2]

What is the best leftist party that would lead USA into a workers-state?

I don't know the answer to that just like I don't know the answer to: 'what is the best toothpaste the working class can choose for healthier teeth? I'm sure both questions are very important to the working class.

[SensibleLuxemburgist]

The U.S. Progressive Labor Party.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Labor_Party_(United_States)

[Sasha]

You'll have a better chance with the democrats, heck, you'll have a better chance with the tea-party than with any of the groupscules, sects and LARPers on that ^ list...

[Leftsolidarity]

Workers World Party.

Might as well say the party I'm in because there's really no basis for anyone to give a real answer to this question other than what they personally favor. If we knew wouldn't we all be in that party?

[Sasha]

also "because Trotsky said so" really isnt a really good premise, after all after 70 years or so so far all evidence point towards that the dude was wrong in that.

[Brutus]

The U.S. Progressive Labor Party.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Labor_Party_(United_States)

They're dubbed anarcho-maoists. Furr is a member, which should tell you their credibility level.

[Red Shaker]

They're dubbed anarcho-maoists. Furr is a member, which should tell you their credibility level.

I have read some of Furr's material and find it more credible than much of the anti-Stalin material I have read. I would be interested in your criticisms of it.

[VinnieUK]

'Workers Government' is an oxymoron.

[Mather]

As things stand at the moment, I would say none. Most of these parties have been around for decades now and have more or less nothing to show for it, they remain tiny in size and have next to no impact on the course of the class struggle in the US.

If and when there is an upsurge of class struggle in the US, my bet would be on an entirely new political formation taking root amongst the working class.

[Red Shaker]

They're dubbed anarcho-maoists. Furr is a member, which should tell you their credibility level.


As things stand at the moment, I would say none. Most of these parties have been around for decades now and have more or less nothing to show for it, they remain tiny in size and have next to no impact on the course of the class struggle in the US.

If and when there is an upsurge of class struggle in the US, my bet would be on an entirely new political formation taking root amongst the working class.
In 1914, the Bolshevik Party which had been around for nearly two decades had at best a few hundred active members. But this core of cadre, given the onset of WWI, and the right line, was able to grow dramatically and lead a revolution in 1917. A small organization with the right line can grow quickly as the world situation changes. Although size is important in the long run, currently line and practice are probably primary.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

In 1914, the Bolshevik Party which had been around for nearly two decades had at best a few hundred active members. But this core of cadre, given the onset of WWI, and the right line, was able to grow dramatically and lead a revolution in 1917. A small organization with the right line can grow quickly as the world situation changes. Although size is important in the long run, currently line and practice are probably primary.

Of course, we now know (from practice, which you say is primary) that small parties seizing state power tend to lead towards a situation of one-party dictatorship. And I don't mean that in some fangled, 'DotP' type of dictatorship, but by its usual meaning - dictatorship of the party over the rest of that society, including the working class.

I don't really understand why you say 'current line' is primary over size. That doesn't make sense. If you have the correct line, you will have size. If you don't have size, your line is probably wrong. And let's face it, every party around has its own line, all claiming to be correct, using almost every possible interpretation of Marxist theory that exists hitherto (and some that are totally divergent from Marxism), and none of them attract the working class.

Arguably, it is the form a movement takes that holds primacy over this correct line bullshit, and the party form seems to me to be a dead end, judging from practice in the 20th century, and the current state of things.

[Geiseric]

also "because Trotsky said so" really isnt a really good premise, after all after 70 years or so so far all evidence point towards that the dude was wrong in that.

Implying other stands of leftism have had more success than Bolshevism is incorrect. Although the leadership of most Stalinist parties were genuinely opportunist, many people were inspired by the Russian revolution. Ignoring the material conditions is the idealist way of looking at things.

[Remus Bleys]

Implying other stands of leftism have had more success than Bolshevism is incorrect.
You're doing this thing wrong, what you should have said was something like "implying that other strads of leftism had more success than Bolshevism" see like watch this

implying that bolshevism is trotskyism

Although the leadership of most Stalinist parties were genuinely opportunist,
Yes and? What does the leaders of the Stalinist parties being oppurtunist tools that destroyed worker movements have to do with the Russian Revolution?

many people were inspired by the Russian revolution. Ignoring the material conditions is the idealist way of looking at things.
Again, Im not sure how this is relevant to anything in this thread

[Red Shaker]

Brutus, I agree with you that a small party making a revolution is not a winning strategy as practice has shown us. But just having a bigger party in of itself is not sufficient to guarantee a successful outcome. Building a mass revolutionary party and fighting for communism seem to be the correct line. Figuring out how to put this line into practice is the difficult part. Take a look at the CPUSA. In the 1920's it was a rather small organization. It developed the line of fighting racism and militant industrial unionism. It wasn't until the Flint Strike of 1937 and the Scottsboro Boys Struggle that this line led to significant growth of the CP. When it retreated from this line at the start of WWII, its membership leveled off and after the war started to decline. I know that there are many other factors involved in this development, but I am just trying to make the point that line makes a difference and that implementing it takes time.

I think a mass revolutionary party is the form we need. What that mean exactly is open for discussion. I am interested in your ideas of form.

[Mather]

In 1914, the Bolshevik Party which had been around for nearly two decades had at best a few hundred active members. But this core of cadre, given the onset of WWI, and the right line, was able to grow dramatically and lead a revolution in 1917.

There is one big difference between the situation in Russia in 1914 and the US in 2014. Russia in 1914 had much higher levels of class struggle and working class militancy than the US does today, even the US had higher levels of class struggle and working class militancy back then as compared with today. When the state of class struggle and working class militancy is at a low ebb (as it is today) then it is not really surprising that revolutionary parties/organisations remain small and marginal forces with little to no support amongst the working class.

I would also point out that many of the parties in the US (CPUSA, RCP, WWP, SWP etc...) have been around for a lot longer than the Bolsheviks before they came to power. Most of these parties reached their high points in terms of numbers and support decades ago, only to see a decline afterwards.


A small organization with the right line can grow quickly as the world situation changes. Although size is important in the long run, currently line and practice are probably primary.

As The Boss rightly points out, if a party/organisation has the right line then that should correspond in terms of their numbers and support amongst the working class. It shouldn't be a case of either or.

[Brotto Rühle]

Otto Ruhle puts it nicely:


The revolution is the political and economic affair of the totality of the proletarian class. Only the proletariat as a class can lead the revolution to victory. Everything else is superstition, demagogy and political chicanery. The proletariat must be conceived of as a class and its activity for the revolutionary struggle unleashed on the broadest possible basis and in the most extensive framework.

[Remus Bleys]

Otto Ruhle puts it nicely:
This doesn't exactly contradict vanguardism though.

[AmilcarCabral]

Mather: hi, I think that one of the main causes of why the low-wage working classes of USA of today 2014 are so anti-change is something that John Steinbeck said that the workers and poor people of USA do not see themselves as an oppressed sector, but instead the workers and poor americans try to fool and lie about their own reality by thinking of their own selves as part of the oppressor ruling class. One of the main tools that the oligarchic capitalist oppressor ruling class does this is by giving the oppressed poor and low-wage working class "Sugar on their cereal bowl".'

In other words the US capitalist system somehow lets the poor and workers enjoy more things than the workers and poor people of Russia in 1900s. Today in America poor people and workers can buy cars at cheap prices. Cheap low priced pizzas, an abundance of good tasting food. In America the poor people fill their houses full of lots of toys, gadgets like playstations, nintendos. Lots of used stuff bought at thrifty stores, and pawn shops, etc.

In other words poor americans right now can soothe and sedate their pain and suffering a lot easier today than the pain and suffering felt by the poor sectors of Russia in 1900s.

My sister who is an oppressed worker and who earns about 11 dollars per hour and her husband who doesn't even have a college degree and has 2 jobs (one job as a private security guard at a football stadium and the other cleaning floors in an office building), they have their house full of junk stuff. Playstation 3 games, big screen TVs and lots and lots of toys.


gJbqKLcCjp4
The great majority of poor americans are not able to get out of The Matrix, because they devote their free time to stupid movies, playstation games, sports games and hobbies, in order to live in a fake-world in USA. Because living in the real world in USA would is too painful, but life in the real world is what turns people into professional communists


In other words, the great majority of americans not only the poor are like little children and might even suffer from the peter pan disorder because of the excess of toys, hobbies and entertainments in their personal lives. That excess of hobbies, and toys i think is one of the main reasons of why the US working classes, including the workers of Wal Mart, Mcdonalds, Publix, Kroger supermarkets, K-Marts etc are so stuck-up, so self-absorbed and so anti-politics, because of the excess of hobbies, toys, games and entertainments that destroy the reality of life in America (which is a very painful country for the majority of people), and turns America into a paradise on earth (like the movie The Matrix)


.


There is one big difference between the situation in Russia in 1914 and the US in 2014. Russia in 1914 had much higher levels of class struggle and working class militancy than the US does today, even the US had higher levels of class struggle and working class militancy back then as compared with today.

[Taters]

Amilcar, you're the best poster on this forum.
You're absolutely right; the US working classes are uncaring, lazy, and, above all, ignorant. We communists need to unceasingly bludgeon them over the head with how dull and idiotic they are for not thinking like us leftists. Amilcar, I see a bright, red future for all of us.

[SonofRage]

Mather: ]

In other words, the great majority of americans not only the poor are like little children and might even suffer from the peter pan disorder because of the excess of toys, hobbies and entertainments in their personal lives. That excess of hobbies, and toys i think is one of the main reasons of why the US working classes, including the workers of Wal Mart, Mcdonalds, Publix, Kroger supermarkets, K-Marts etc are so stuck-up, so self-absorbed and so anti-politics, because of the excess of hobbies, toys, games and entertainments that destroy the reality of life in America (which is a very painful country for the majority of people), and turns America into a paradise on earth (like the movie The Matrix)


.

Recently I've been starting to think that there may be something to the MIM "labor aristocracy" analysis of workers in the first world. Are the workers you're describing materially bought off? In comparison to their third world counterparts, they may be.

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk

[SensibleLuxemburgist]

With regards to my last post, if the Internationalist Communist Tendency or the International Communist Current would set up local parties in the US then I would not hesitate in changing my choices to these honorable left communist internationals. Otherwise, the Progressive Labor Party is fine enough for me in this nation's largely broken left-wing.

http://www.leftcom.org/en

http://world.internationalism.org/

[Mather]

@ AmilcarCabral: I'll have to disagree with you on this one.

I think it is a good thing that workers can enjoy the few little luxuries in life afforded to them with what little wages they have. The miseries of poverty and alienation hang over the heads of ever worker and little luxuries like TV and video games are but a small form of relief of the daily grind that we all suffer from. At the end of the day workers are human, not robots and if these small luxuries were taken away I highly doubt that would somehow magically translate into a higher form of class consciousness. The working classes of Haiti or Afghanistan have none of the luxuries you attest to yet class consciousness in those two countries is even lower than in most industrialised developed countries, so your theory really doesn't hold up. The less materially well of workers are the less likely they are to develop class consciousness and revolt as they will have more pressing issues to think about such as personal survival.

Marxism and communism rejects asceticism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asceticism) as we wish develop the human potential, rather than live a monastic life like monks. Ultimately asceticism is a reactionary school of thought as it tells people to be happy with their lot in life (even if that means poverty and misery) and to accept their status. Such nonsense was peddled by the Christian clergy who told peasants that they should not complain about their lot in life on Earth as great riches and rewards awaited them in the afterlife.

On the issue of the low levels of class consciousness, there is no one determining factor but a whole host of ones.

The fall of the USSR/Eastern Bloc is one. Whilst the 'socialism' of these regimes was rotten and wholly alien to genuine Marxism and communism, the fall of the USSR/Eastern Bloc provided a great deal of ideological ammunition to the capitalist class and allowed them to present the end of the Cold War as a great victory for capitalism and confirmation of the 'failures' of communism. It was within this context that Francis Fukuyama declared the "end of history".

Another factor is one where we on the revolutionary left need to take some of the blame. All in all most of the revolutionary left has been nothing short of a joke. Anarchists, Trotskyists, Marxist-Leninists etc... have all made huge mistakes in their approach to politics and the working class. In many ways I do not blame workers for not wanting anything to do with what passes for the revolutionary left in the industrialised developed countries as the revolutionary left have done a very good job in alienating many people who might otherwise wish to find an alternative to the madness of capitalism.

There are also many other factors at play and we should not limit ourselves by equating the lack of class consciousness with any one single factor, least not one based on an thoroughly anti-materialist outlook such as asceticism.

As for John Steinbeck, why on earth should I care what he thinks? Did you know that he was a reactionary who offered his services to the CIA, was close friends with President Lyndon B. Johnson and supported the Vietnam War. We don't need to take any lectures from him!

[RedWaves]

No party is going to change jack shit in America.

You know it, I know.

I disagree with Trotsky totally on this.


We need a revolution. A true leftist Revolution to overthrow the capitalist dictatorship, and until that happens, nothing is going to change. Capitalism will continue to go through it's phases and probably adapt into Fascism, but we are never going to see a total reform for the people unless the people get up to it and lead a true leftist revolution.

We're never going to see a revolution in America cause people just like holding up signs to protest, and they would be too scared they'll lose their American Idol or whatever privileged entertainment that is given to them. Western society is too engraved in slave culture and obedience to ever rise up against the evil machine.

The only other way besides revolution would be a reform and don't kid yourself, that is not going to happen, I don't care how popular a group becomes. America is run by a two party dictatorship and both those parties sold their soul to the dollar a long ass time ago. If you have learned anything by now, it's that money = power.



also "because Trotsky said so" really isnt a really good premise, after all after 70 years or so so far all evidence point towards that the dude was wrong in that.

Totally 100% agree with this.

[Jimmie Higgins]

Mather: hi, I think that one of the main causes of why the low-wage working classes of USA of today 2014 are so anti-change is something that John Steinbeck said that the workers and poor people of USA do not see themselves as an oppressed sector, but instead the workers and poor americans try to fool and lie about their own reality by thinking of their own selves as part of the oppressor ruling class. One of the main tools that the oligarchic capitalist oppressor ruling class does this is by giving the oppressed poor and low-wage working class "Sugar on their cereal bowl".'

In other words the US capitalist system somehow lets the poor and workers enjoy more things than the workers and poor people of Russia in 1900s. Today in America poor people and workers can buy cars at cheap prices. Cheap low priced pizzas, an abundance of good tasting food. In America the poor people fill their houses full of lots of toys, gadgets like playstations, nintendos. Lots of used stuff bought at thrifty stores, and pawn shops, etc.

There are certainly things about class consciousness in the u.s. That present huge hurdles, but I don't think what you describe here really gets at it at all. First I think historically in the u.s. This has not been the case. The movements of the 60s/70s came at the height of class mobility and the lowest point of class inequality in u.s. History. The northern black movement came when black living standards and mobility had been increasing for a generation (despite massive racial inequalities and so on... Black workers were not on par with most white workers, but the movements wanted to close that gap).

I'm not arguing that the opposite is always true either. There is certainly a sort of crisis point where people are just too backed into a corner to accept things. But IMO, for the us, we do tend to hit these points, but by then we have no way of organizing a counter and so people just move out of Detroit or people just make due in isolated misery and invisibility.

But anyway, I think this crisis point is not an absolute one, but a relative one. People can deal with a lot of shit as long as they can keep dealing with it. But under different conditions, what that is is different. So I think a petrol shortage in the u.s. Where workers can't afford to live close to work, where people can't reproduce themselves without transportation, would be as explosive as bread shortages in the past. In a European city, a subway strike might do that.


My sister who is an oppressed worker and who earns about 11 dollars per hour and her husband who doesn't even have a college degree and has 2 jobs (one job as a private security guard at a football stadium and the other cleaning floors in an office building), they have their house full of junk stuff. Playstation 3 games, big screen TVs and lots and lots of toys.oh Jesus, this is a let them eat cake argument in my view. Yeah I live on $12/hour and have a computer, iPad and a tv. I also have a fridge and a space heater. I don't have a car, I don't have health coverage, I don't have retirement, I don't have enough money to feel that I could raise a child. Relatively I make less than someone in the 60s on minimum wage made ($16-17/hour would be the adjusted 60s minimum wage... And living costs would also be much less relatively) have less free time and work harder. I work roughly twice as hard as I did when I began this job in fact because my job used to be two people per shift and since the recession it's been 1person despite having more work to do. The difference is that the job market got worse, so people will settle for worse.

No on goes on strike over a play station because that is the same cost as a fith of monthly rent for a studio apartment in the Bay Area. People do strike over working conditions, health benefits, retirement etc.

So seeing wealth in terms of consumer goods is completely inaccurate and gives a distorted picture of things.



gJbqKLcCjp4
The great majority of poor americans are not able to get out of The Matrix, because they devote their free time to stupid movies, playstation games, sports games and hobbies, in order to live in a fake-world in USA. Because living in the real world in USA would is too painful, but life in the real world is what turns people into professional communists
workers in the u.s. Have much less free time than workers in similar positions in Europe or other parts of the Americas. Play stations are a poor consolation for not having weeks off per year, paid maternity leave, healthcare, or a sense of purpose or a stable future.

[RedMaterialist]

There are certainly things about class consciousness in the u.s. That present huge hurdles, but I don't think what you describe here really gets at it at all. First I think historically in the u.s. This has not been the case. The movements of the 60s/70s came at the height of class mobility and the lowest point of class inequality in u.s. History. The northern black movement came when black living standards and mobility had been increasing for a generation (despite massive racial inequalities and so on... Black workers were not on par with most white workers, but the movements wanted to close that gap).


So, is there anything specific that can be done? The revolution is not going to happen anytime soon (unless there is another great depression.) The only real action that can be taken is the education of the masses. This education can only take place on street corners, union halls, by giving speeches, handing out leaflets. This would have, I think, to take place in the larger cities in the west and north central and north east. Is there any party organized to do this? How much money would it take to keep a dozen or so radicals doing this?

If I were younger I might have made an attempt to do something like this. Maybe revleft could coordinate something or help with the leaflets and speeches.

[Ocean Seal]

Oh lord everytime, we think of what the best party is, it just depresses me because its kind of like winning a pee-wee football award. The competition isn't very solid. Lets make some strides towards building a party that we are ultimately proud of before discussing who's sect is the best.