Marxism in China

[Sabot Cat]

I have a few questions in regards to Marxism in China that I was hoping someone on the board could help answer.

1)Are the works of Karl Marx widely read and distributed among the Chinese populace, and what regard is he held in generally?

2)Are there people who have an education in Classical Marxism, apart from Marxism-Leninism and Maoism?

3)How class conscious would you estimate most of the Chinese proletariat to be?

4)If the answers to some of the above questions are in the affirmative, could Marxist ideology serve as a revolutionary flashpoint against "socialism with Chinese characteristics" and the corrupt elite who supports it?

[Comrade Chernov]

What I think we're seeing with China is essentially a repeat of post-Stalin policies under Khruschev. They're becoming more bureaucratic, centralized, and at the same time revising their policy in order to look more appealing to the world. The only difference is that they're also becoming more and more capitalist as well.

[KurtFF8]

The only difference is that they're also becoming more and more capitalist as well.

Which thus makes China now quite distinct from the USSR under Khrushchev.

I don't know the answers to the OP's questions but I will say that Marxism seems quite popular in China still, considering that the ruling officials at least continue to pay lip service to it (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c69_1386175374&comments=1)

[Sabot Cat]

What I think we're seeing with China is essentially a repeat of post-Stalin policies under Khruschev. They're becoming more bureaucratic, centralized, and at the same time revising their policy in order to look more appealing to the world. The only difference is that they're also becoming more and more capitalist as well.

I know that's true for the elite, but I'm pretty much wondering what the chances are for the Chinese proletariat rising up against perceived capitalist roaders in the Communist Party. If revolutionary class struggle is so glorified in the education and media for the Chinese people, one would expect for at least some to be motivated to apply it in real life?

[Teacher]

Not pretending to be an expert but I have been to China and research China quite a bit.


1)Are the works of Karl Marx widely read and distributed among the Chinese populace, and what regard is he held in generally?

Widely read and distributed, no. I don't really get the impression that the average person in China cares that much about politics frankly. If you ask a random Chinese person on the subway about Marx you're likely to get the same puzzled/indifferent response you'd get from someone in the United States.


2)Are there people who have an education in Classical Marxism, apart from Marxism-Leninism and Maoism?

Not sure what you mean by Classical Marxism. Actually, as a caveat, I haven't interacted much with Chinese university students or professors. They might be the type who have actually read Marx, Lenin, Mao, etc but the average person doesn't really care about these figures. Mao is someone who is admired but more as a national hero/liberator than as a communist revolutionary.


3)How class conscious would you estimate most of the Chinese proletariat to be?

Not very. Again, I think it is very similar to the United States. People are more concerned with consumerism, socializing, and trying to be upwardly mobile than with making revolution.

[Sabot Cat]

I don't know the answers to the OP's questions but I will say that Marxism seems quite popular in China still, considering that the ruling officials at least continue to pay lip service to it (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c69_1386175374&comments=1)

Hm, that's the first reference I've seen to just Marxism by the CPC. Thanks for the link~


Widely read and distributed, no. I don't really get the impression that the average person in China cares that much about politics frankly. If you ask a random Chinese person on the subway about Marx you're likely to get the same puzzled/indifferent response you'd get from someone in the United States.

Not sure what you mean by Classical Marxism. Actually, as a caveat, I haven't interacted much with Chinese university students or professors. They might be the type who have actually read Marx, Lenin, Mao, etc but the average person doesn't really care about these figures. Mao is someone who is admired but more as a national hero/liberator than as a communist revolutionary.

Not very. Again, I think it is very similar to the United States. People are more concerned with consumerism, socializing, and trying to be upwardly mobile than with making revolution.

I suppose I figured that because the Chinese proletariat are daily confronted with a relative lack of income, poor working conditions, an increasingly capitalist and corrupt elite, while emerged waist-deep in propaganda that glorifies communist revolution, they would be more likely to have class consciousness. But I suppose the heavy censorship has created a societal chilling effect that squelches not just political discourse, but political feeling.

I guess the Chinese intelligentsia are the most likely then to lead a revolutionary struggle, perhaps with students acting as supporters. As in the Hungarian Revolution of 1956 or the June Fourth Incident, both of which were ruthlessly crushed...

[chinsesleftist]

1, Chinese people rarely read Marx's writings. It should be said that China's ordinary people rarely read. Few intellectuals have read, but a lot of right-wing intellectuals.

2, China's secondary schools and universities have courses on Marxism and Mao Zedong Thought. Content more meaningful aspects of materialism. Other areas, there may distort Marxism-Leninism and Mao Zedong Thought. Because China since Deng Xiaoping implemented revisionism.

3, Chinese youth is no "class consciousness." But the Chinese people generally feel social inequality.

4, not many people support the rulers. But the Chinese people have been poisoned by the Confucian spirit of moderation, coupled with the government's brainwashing, so the lack of courage to struggle.

[Sabot Cat]

First of all, thanks for responding~ :)


1, Chinese people rarely read Marx's writings. It should be said that China's ordinary people rarely read. Few intellectuals have read, but a lot of right-wing intellectuals.

That is unfortunate, but I suppose it makes sense. :(


2, China's secondary schools and universities have courses on Marxism and Mao Zedong Thought. Content more meaningful aspects of materialism. Other areas, there may distort Marxism-Leninism and Mao Zedong Thought. Because China since Deng Xiaoping implemented revisionism.

It's kind of insidious how the bourgeois ensures that the only people who learn revolutionary ideologies in full are those who are unlikely to use them due to the typical income demographics of higher education and the ensuing indoctrination, not just in China but the world over...


3, Chinese youth is no "class consciousness." But the Chinese people generally feel social inequality.

4, not many people support the rulers. But the Chinese people have been poisoned by the Confucian spirit of moderation, coupled with the government's brainwashing, so the lack of courage to struggle.

I figured that there would be some underlying tension between the proletariat and the bourgeois regime; I believe the catalyst for revolutionary is there, and I'm glad to have learned more about the situation, although it's disappointing to know that China isn't necessarily that much more likely to have a revolution than the United States or the Russian Federation despite being ostensibly a Marxist-Leninist nation.

[Lenina Rosenweg]

The impression I got...

There is enormous cynicism in the Chinese "Communist" Party. There is a saying that "a bureaucrat who isn't rich is an idiot". Noone in the government believes in or cares about Marxism.

Marxism of a sort is taught in highschools and universities. "Politics" is a required course. Marxism is taught as something which "made China strong", in highly nationalistic terms.People aren't encouraged to actually use Marxism.

Middle class youth are very pro-capitalist.Basically there is a strong wish for "normal" capitalism like that of Taiwan and Hong Kong.

Having said all this, there is an enormous revival of Maoism among working class youth and people living in the interior, cut off from the boom on the coasts. In some areas there has also been a revival of Maoism in local government circles, much broader than the disgraced Bo Xilai.

[blake 3:17]

There's apparently some space for Marxist thought in academia. I was a bit amazed that Paul Le Blanc was invited there... These are a couple of his reports. One on the Rosa Luxemburg conference in 2006 http://www.europe-solidaire.org/spip.php?article4928 and one on a more recent Lenin conference in 2012 http://links.org.au/node/3164

[Sabot Cat]

There's apparently some space for Marxist thought in academia. I was a bit amazed that Paul Le Blanc was invited there... These are a couple of his reports. One on the Rosa Luxemburg conference in 2006 http://www.europe-solidaire.org/spip.php?article4928 and one on a more recent Lenin conference in 2012 http://links.org.au/node/3164

I've heard of the surprising Paul Le Blanc invitation, but not the two conferences which suggest at least some toleration of Marxist ideals that are antithetical to the PRC's style of governance. Thanks~ =)



The impression I got...

There is enormous cynicism in the Chinese "Communist" Party. There is a saying that "a bureaucrat who isn't rich is an idiot". Noone in the government believes in or cares about Marxism.

Marxism of a sort is taught in highschools and universities. "Politics" is a required course. Marxism is taught as something which "made China strong", in highly nationalistic terms.People aren't encouraged to actually use Marxism.

I figured that Marxism, workers' liberation, etc. in the PRC's government and educational system akin to democracy, liberty, etc. in the US's government and educational system. It's sad that all of these are great ideals, but the positive connotations of the words associated with them have been appropriated as a vacuous vessel for crass self-advancement of those in power.


Middle class youth are very pro-capitalist.Basically there is a strong wish for "normal" capitalism like that of Taiwan and Hong Kong.

It seems like that these people are the ones most likely to peacefully attain power in the current system, especially with the ascension of more people from the financial sector in the sixth generation (and beyond) of Chinese leadership like Zhang Qingwei, during a future where the elderly will make up 33% of the Chinese population by ~2050 if my admittedly mainstream sources aren't too biased. It seems as though such a bureaucratic cadre could reform the entire PRC to have a larger privatized sector, especially if they somehow find a way to cooperate with the Pan-Blue Coalition to assimilate the ROC and the symbolic ideological opposition they provide, perhaps by the KMT and the CPC formally concluding the Chinese Civil War through a treaty.


Having said all this, there is an enormous revival of Maoism among working class youth and people living in the interior, cut off from the boom on the coasts. In some areas there has also been a revival of Maoism in local government circles, much broader than the disgraced Bo Xilai.

Hm, that's pretty interesting; I think that my above described shift towards private capitalism could be countered by rural and lower-income peoples who aren't so keen on being swindled by a government that regularly tries to talk like a Marxist, but walks like a capitalist. They might try to lead a revolution against the government, perhaps enabled by democratization reforms performed to save face internationally (with those in power having the hope that the reactionary structure of parliamentary governments would preserve the power of the Chinese bourgeois) that would then enable things like the Beijing Workers' Autonomous Federation from rising again, which could also making a general strike more likely. I hope that such a struggle would be successful, because it would be great for the workers of China, as well as the workers of the worlds who might rise up to follow their example. We'll see what the future holds.