Gingerism

[Comrade #138672]

I had never really thought about it before, but could gingerism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_hair#Prejudice_and_discrimination_against_redh eads) be considered a form of discrimination? Apparently gingerism has been around since the Middle Ages. In the Middle Ages, people with red hair and freckles were often branded as "vampires", "werewolves", or otherwise "evil", because of their looks. In modern times, people with red hair and freckles are often the target of ridicule. South Park made an episode about them, in which they were depicted as "people without a soul". How is this not harmful? Sometimes people are even afraid to be perceived as "gingers". "On this photo, I look like I am ginger, but I really assure you that I am not." This happened for real and it was not the first time I had seen someone say something like that.

If it is real, where does it come from? Even though some people consider gingerism as a form of racism, I am pretty sure that it is not. Is it, in any way, linked to racism, though (similar to how sexism is linked to heterosexism and cissexism, all three coming from patriarchy)? Preferably someone could explain it from the viewpoint of class society, e.g. capitalism.

[Tenka]

There is a common phrase: "to beat someone like a red-headed stepchild".
I am not sure, but I think discrimination against red-haired people stems from their births being uncommon, what with the recessive gene and all; and since they did not then look like either of the parents, they might have suffered abuse based on ignorance in the old pre-science days.

And people keep traditions alive.

[Lily Briscoe]

"Discrimination" of red-haired people...? It's a joke, right...? :unsure:

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

Almost everyone I've meet in real life who has ever joked at this possibly being a thing or actually thought it might kinda exist was a privileged white person who would look at you sideways if you suggested that racism against black people was a thing and that black people are only poor because they're just dumb and lazy, and wouldn't hesitate to make a wise crack about Asians or Indians.

All of these invented oppression are merely ways of mocking the idea of racism, all it does is de-legitimize the grievances of actually oppressed minorities.

Being made fun of isn't oppression, you know what is? Colonialism, genocide, slavery imperialism, mass incarceration, and all that goes with it. If you can show me a case of institutionalized anti-gingerism then be my guess. Otherwise there's no need to invent a new oppression where one doesn't exist.

[Remus Bleys]

Its like the furry thing really.

[goalkeeper]

remember that time the police killed a ginger person because he was ginger

[Sam_b]

Don't start posting image macros in a serious part of the forum, okay?

As for the answer, YAbM is correct. What this is, in all seriousness, is an attempt to undermine the real struggles of people who are victims of racism, sexism, homophobia on a daily basis. I point to a Scottish example - the same day that Pride Glasgow was on there was a 'Ginger Pride' march in Edinburgh. Whether or not this was intentionally tongue-in-cheek I don't know - but one thing for sure is that we felt completely belittled because of it, as if something as important as Pride was something you could just compare and set up with things like this 'gingerism'. It is not a thing - people get bullied for having red hair. But this is bullying. It has nothing to do with the power dynamics of say racism.

To pick an example out of thin air, a lot of people have large ears. So let's replace the OP title with 'large earsism'. Now if this was a thread it would get laughed out of here. People were victimised in the Middle Ages for having red hair? I am left handed - people used to get bullied for being left handers, instructed to write with the right hand and so on. Is this discrimination and oppression then? Making these sorts of comparisons does nothing except hurt the real victims of discrimination in society.

[tachosomoza]

Yeah, this is just an effort to cheapen actual discrimination issues that people are fighting against. Europeans with red hair are still white people, they've never been enslaved, lynched or arrested because of their hair color. It's ridiculous.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

Gingers have no souls. They need to steal the souls of others to survive. Obama is secretly a ginger.

In all seriousness, YABM is completely correct in that this is another case of blindness by trying to downplay the extreme history and power of real forms of institutional discrimination. You don't get stopped and frisked or treated as if you are a criminal for having red hair.


There is a common phrase: "to beat someone like a red-headed stepchild".

Where the hell is that common!? Whoever says that shit sounds like a god-damned psychopath!

[Comrade #138672]

I do not see why studying the complexity of different modes of discrimination is necessarily a bad thing. This does not mean that it cannot be used as a tool to mock racism, but it seems that one cannot even ask this question, without being accused of downplaying the history of racism and other forms of "actual" discrimination. I want to emphasize that I take racism and other forms of discrimination very seriously.

Anyway, I have read something interesting here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_hair#Modern):

Redheads constitute approximately 4% of the European population.[11] Scotland has the highest proportion of redheads; 13% of the population has red hair and approximately 40% carries the recessive redhead gene.[12] Ireland has the second highest percentage; as many as 10% of the Irish population has red, auburn, or strawberry blond hair.[13] It is thought that up to 46% of the Irish population carries the recessive redhead gene.[citation needed] A 1956 study of hair color amongst British army recruits also found high levels of red hair in Wales and the English Border counties.[14]Thus, gingerism could be seen as a by-product of anti-Scottish, anti-Irish and anti-Welsh racism.

Red hair is also fairly common amongst the Ashkenazi Jewish populations, possibly because of the influx of European DNA over a period of centuries.[15] In European culture, prior to the 20th century, red hair was often seen as a stereotypically Jewish trait: during the Spanish Inquisition, all those with red hair were identified as Jewish.[16] In Italy, red hair was associated with Italian Jews, and Judas was traditionally depicted as red-haired in Italian and Spanish art.[17] Writers from Shakespeare to Dickens would identify Jewish characters by giving them red hair.[18] The stereotype that red hair is Jewish remains in parts of Eastern Europe and Russia.[19]Therefore, gingerism could also be seen as a by-product of anti-Jewish racism (anti-Semitism).

Can we discuss gingerism seriously now, or is it still not real enough?

[Remus Bleys]

Where the hell is that common!? Whoever says that shit sounds like a god-damned psychopath!
You hear that joke all the time in the good ol' USA

[Flying Purple People Eater]

I do not see why studying the complexity of different modes of discrimination is necessarily a bad thing. This does not mean that it cannot be used as a tool to mock racism, but it seems that one cannot even ask this question, without being accused of downplaying the history of racism and other forms of "actual" discrimination. I want to emphasize that I take racism and other forms of discrimination very seriously.

Anyway, I have read something interesting here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_hair#Modern):
Thus, gingerism could be seen as a by-product of anti-Scottish, anti-Irish and anti-Welsh racism.
Therefore, gingerism could also be seen as a by-product of anti-Jewish racism (anti-Semitism).

Can we discuss gingerism seriously now, or is it still not real enough?

It's not real. It hasn't been real for hundreds of years, and back then Europe was a land of crackpottery where having anything as 'otherly' as dark skin or heterochromic eyes (one blue eye and one brown) was cause for witch hunts. There is no major social or institutional discrimination against people who have red hair. However, certain ethnic group that are noticed for commonly having red hair (e.g. Chechnyans or Indigenous Australians) are racially discriminated against institutionally - not because they have red hair, but because that red hair plus a few other factors (skin colour, accent, etc) designates them as part of an ethnic group that is a victim of institutional racism.

The whole 'Gingers are oppressed' thing is total bullshit. It's like someone who is blonde saying they are as disadvantaged as African-Americans because of a fairly secluded joke about blonde people being stupid. Insulting and ridiculous.

[Tim Cornelis]

If you can show me a case of institutionalized anti-gingerism then be my guess. Otherwise there's no need to invent a new oppression where one doesn't exist.

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[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

The whole 'Gingers are oppressed' thing is total bullshit. It's like someone who is blonde saying they are as disadvantaged as African-Americans because of a fairly secluded joke about blonde people being stupid. Insulting and ridiculous.

That joke about blondes being daft is actually a sexist joke, however.

[Tenka]

I'm not sure where it was said gingers were oppressed or institutionally discriminated against today. They are not. That doesn't mean they aren't popularly reviled in some ways. Discrimination against gingers is comparable to that against "nerds" or "emos" or whatever social outcasts in severity (at least in America), a key difference being that it is genetic. And of course, the main reason for common distaste held for gingers is that they are uncommon. Simple. Nobody (that I've noticed) compares it to racism.