Gun Control

[Red Star]

I was just debating gun control with conservatives and I really do think they are retarded. Apparently they think every citizen in the US should be allowed to carry a gun. Bull Shit! You'd have thousands of murders each day. Anyways they really believe it and I need some back up from the left on this issue. If your ever on AOl go to chat room from the right. Those hill billy bastards piss me the hell out of me.

[Son of Scargill]

I think that 30,000 odd gun related woundings and killings a year would be enough of an argument.Shit,we probably get about 100 per year,and most of them are farmers topping themselves.
But unfortunately,gun incidents are increasing in the UK.

[Viva Zapata]

what I think they should do is stop selling ammunition. most people won't give up their guns so I think this is the best sollution

[CommieBastard]

The law in the US constitution allowing people to carry guns was originally a measure to ensure that militias could easily be raised in defence of the country against the threats of Mexicans, Brits and Indians. Problems which i would say are quite irrelevant now...

[RedCeltic]

We have gun control here in New York, and it works to an extent, we do have reduced crime. However, the problem is that guns can still come in from other parts of the countery. Some places you can buy a gun like you can a pack of smokes. It seems nearly impossible to seperate a red neck from his firearms.

[Moskitto]

I found these quotes by NRA exectuives on annother forum which make quite humourous reading.

"The NRA's goal is to protect law-abiding gun owners and hunters."

"All gun control efforts will lead to a total ban on guns."

"Gun control only effects law-abiding citizens. Criminals won't be affected by gun control laws."

"Gun control is a socialist plot to disarm America and 'take our guns away'."

"The supporters of gun control are motivated by 'fear' of guns."

"The second amendment to the Constitution was intended to arm the people against a possible tyrannical government. We would need modern weaponry, like semi automatic assault rifles, to fight the government."

"When criminals can no longer have easy access to guns, they will turn to other deadly weapons such as knives and baseball bats to commit their crimes."

"The primary reason for the high level of crime in this country is that judges are too soft on criminals and the legal system allows too many criminals to go free."

"A machine gun is no more deadly of a weapon than a baseball bat."

"Owning a gun will protect you from crime."

"There are 20 thousand gun laws in this country. Why do we need any more?"

"Israel and Switzerland have very high rates of gun ownership and they don't have our crime problems. This proves that guns are not the problem and gun control is not the answer."

"The NRA supports the law-enforcement community."

"The Brady law isn't having much effect catching criminals. There were only 15 convictions of Brady law violators in 1994, 21 in 1995 and 30 in 1996."

"Guns are used legally in self-defense about 2.5 million times a year in the U.S."

"In no instance throughout all of history, in any nation, has gun-control stopped until all guns have been removed from the populace."

"The statistics about gun deaths are misleading because most of the people killed by guns are criminals shot in the act of breaking the law."

"Florida's crime rate dropped after they passed a law to allow concealed weapons to be carried in public. Therefore concealed carry laws must reduce crime."

[Guest]

Actually if you downright outlaw guns then they will be a enormous black market in which more death will occur.
I say just restrict guns more but dont make them illegal.

[RedCeltic]

Yes I agree with you there Guest, and it's doubful anyone could pass such a law outlawing Guns altogether. While one can't buy a gun in New York City... New York State law requires all firearms to be registered... one must be 18 to purchase a rifle and 21 to purchase a hand gun... all hand gun owners must first be licenced and are subjected to a waiting period.

While most states in the North East have such laws, most down south don't... and in some places you can carry a hand gun on your person freely, or sit it up there on the dashboard of your car.

While there needs to be federal laws restricting guns, out right banning them will defeat the purpous.

[Guest]

Well I'm no redneck, but after reading some of the rantings from a lot of the half-wits on boards like this and others, I certainly want to have my weapon readily accessible when you clowns try to bring on the "revolution". I'll be going for head shots, and I'm pretty good!

[Freiheit]

oh my god, this stupid rednecks!

[Taj]

Quote: from Guest on 5:33 am on Dec. 20, 2001
Well I'm no redneck, but after reading some of the rantings from a lot of the half-wits on boards like this and others, I certainly want to have my weapon readily accessible when you clowns try to bring on the "revolution". I'll be going for head shots, and I'm pretty good!


well maybe you can give us your addres so we can come over once to see you and bring the revolution to you!

[RedCeltic]

Quick Guest grab your shot gun... a brigade of red army soldgers are marching down your street! Can you hear the jingle of 'em? They mean busness... better go hide in the basement.

[psycho chicken]

what's wrong with guns? guns don't kill people, people do.
for example, in switzerland, where there is compulsary military service for all males, they keep their rifle upon leaving the military. this means there is a large firearms ownership per capita. surely this means people walk down the street firing round after round into any one that moves. well that's what the gun control lobby wants you to think. there is practically no crime involving firearms or violence. think about it. would you break into someone's house if you know the've got an assualt rifle lying around? didn't think so

also, drugs are illegal. but people can still get them. guns, if banned, would be the same

and whats the most dangerous sport? shooting? surely! guns kill people right? wrong. shooting is one of the safest sports around. the most dangerous being horse riding i believe.

and for your infomation, i'm no red neck, just a normal person who enjoys shooting, and i don't see why i should be discriminated for that

[RedCeltic]

Firstly, I didn't mean to imply that everyone who liked guns was a red neck, that was just a joke... and... I have never seen anyone admit they where a red neck except Jeff Foxworthy. (You might be a red neck if... you ever had to say "Honey come move this transmission so I can take a bath." )

You have a good point about banning guns... prohibition of alcohal was a huge falure, but it made organised crime alot of money. The same is with drugs, and... there already is a black market for guns... banning them outright would be counter productive.

The issue here is "Gun Control" not banning guns... we have gun control in New York state... and you can still buy one outside of NYC... if your over 21, without a criminal record... and willing to wate for a few days than there is no problem for you to buy one.

We need more restrictions on guns... more education on the proper use, storage, and handling of them...

But not prohibition of them.

[CommieBastard]

Guns can fuck off.
Admittedly, an outright ban in the US wont solve your fucked up system, because too many people have guns..
well i don't know what you can do, you're pretty much screwed... once you let something like that in, you can't get it out.

Guns are illegal here in the UK, and i'm sure as hell glad of it.

Gun crimes? virtually nil.
But in the US there are shootings all the time.

You say guns dont kill people, but people do? well, guns give them the means to do it with ease, without guns its a helluva lot harder.

Did anyone suggest that everyone having a gun would mean everyone would always be shooting one off? no, thats an invention of your mind.
But what guns being widely available DOES mean is that people have the oppurtunity to use them, when and if they feel like it. Admittedly, the majority of people might be responsible, but there is always the occasional psycho.
Aslo, what about crimes of passion? someone feels momentarily like doing something, if there's a gun to hand, they might.. if they have no means to kill, they wont.
As for whether you'll go into a house if you think there's a sub-machine gun in there.. criminals aint dumb, they'll target houses where no-one is armed, and i don't want a gun. The system you are proposing is one that restricts my freedoms, it means i HAVE to buy a gun. Fuck that, what do i want with the means to kill? society cannot comprehensively change for the better until civilians do not have the means to kill one another. I mean, wtf do u need a gun for if no one else has a gun? you're just upping the stakes more and more... what next, fucking bazookas?

Who said shooting was a dangerous sport? it's obvious why it isnt one, its only allowed miles from buildings, and you are standing stock still while shooting some far off target...
so why the fuck would it be dangerous?
its the other shooting sport, the one thats done on other people, that is the fucking dangerous one.


Now, shooting as a sport? no preoblem with it, but the guns should be kept under lock and key in the shooting galleries... not freely available to any civilian who wants to use one on their neighbour. There, see, everyones happy, you get to shoot the fuck out of things, and i dont have to have the fuck shot out of me.

[Moskitto]

Dangerous sport statistics are dodgy.

Any water based sport is ranked as being quite dangerous.

eg. Fishing is officially the 7th most dangerous sport, even though the chances of actually drowning are pretty small.

I think that Motor Racing is the most dangerous sport though because it's statisticly the most dangerous occupation.

[el che1220]

well---as a swiss citizen, I'm required to have a gun (assault-rifle in my case)....I grant you that here people don't kill each other with their guns...but the regulations concerning the guns lent by the Swiss Army are very strict and quite dissuasive----I can't go into the details of these regulations..but the NRA often cites the Swiss "example" for their convenience....but they oversimplify it to have "concrete" arguments----:)

[Capitalist]

Like Guest,
I have no problem with Gun Control, Ballistic Recordings (= Finger Prints for Guns), Gun Locks, or Permits and Licenses and shooting communist in the event of another communistic bullshit revolution.

Cars Kill People too, we don't outlaw them - but we make certain the public is protected from cars - the same should be done with guns.

I do not support the NRA - they are too extreme on open gun policy.

However if you take the right to guns away from the people - the government will take over the people.

Like Cuba - Only the Military is allowed to carry guns. It is illegal for the general public to have guns.

[Guest]

"We need more restrictions on guns... more education on the proper use, storage, and handling of them... But not prohibition of them."
Hmm...where have I heard this argument before...oh, that's right, it's the NRA's platform.

[RedCeltic]

I never said anything about the NRA pro or con

[El Commandante]

Moskitto, some of those reasons that they have for owning a gun are insane!

Gun control is a socialist plot to disarm America and 'take our guns away'."

"The supporters of gun control are motivated by 'fear' of guns."

"The second amendment to the Constitution was intended to arm the people against a possible tyrannical government. We would need modern weaponry, like semi automatic assault rifles, to fight the government."

"When criminals can no longer have easy access to guns, they will turn to other deadly weapons such as knives and baseball bats to commit their crimes."


According to them it's socialists wanting to take their guns from them, yeah, and the martians steal all the donuts. There arguements are so superbly stupid, perhaps Bush wrote them?

[CommieBastard]

Question your government, but do not shoot it.

After all capitalist, you are as much under your governments thumb as any cuban.

Here in the UK people arent allowed guns, are we bullied by the army? why, deary me, i beleive we're not.
The majority of the police don't even have guns, and thank god for that too, because giving police guns is a dumb idea.

If you want protection from your military, then get rid of the damn military.

If your scared of foreign militaries? support their countries labour movements. If all labour movements in the world recognise their shared goals of both equality and internationalism, and therefore both join disarmament campaigns, then no one has anything to fear.

No one except the ruling classes needs the military.

[Red Star]

I've got nothing against owning guns. Its people wanting the righ to carry concealed weapons every where they go that scares me. I asked one coservative "So would you carry your handgun with into Disney World if you could?" He replied, "You never know when the goofs are going to get you." Thats what what bothers me. Everyone carrying handguns like the old west.

Hunting rifles and shotguns are fine. I go hunting myself. But when you start carrying a Glock or Beretta to the grocery store somethings gone wrong. For instance how often do a couple guys get drunk and get in a fight? Well if everyone was carrying guns you'd have murders all the time instead of a couple black eyes. There is absolutely no reason the general public should be allowed to carry concealed weapons.

The argument constantly brought up is that carrying handguns prevents rape and attack on women. I'd like to know how much combat training these women have. Do they plan on knocking the attacker on the ground pulling out their 9mm and killing him? They're firing bullets that can travel 3 miles. What about the public that could easily be hit by a stray shot.

Wouldn't it be safer and perhaps easier to carry tazers or pepper spray.

Another thing that bothers me, As long as you have a liscense you can buy the biggest damn gun you can tow behind your truck. What the hell? Do these Red Necks think they're forming a militia.

[Moskitto]

There's a problem with the second ammendment arguement.

The second ammendment only allows people to own guns as part of a well organized militia, otherwise it doesn't allow the individual to own even a pea shooter.

There's a problem with the police not having guns.

If the police don't have guns you get people who've got guns who can basically do what they like. Although stinger guns are probably much better weapons for the police as they allow for mistakes to be made.

Although a policemans last words a few years ago after he was shot were "What use is a stick against a gun?"

(Edited by Moskitto at 11:16 pm on Dec. 20, 2001)

[CommieBastard]

there's no problem with the police not having guns if no one else has guns...

[psycho chicken]

but that's the point. you will never get rid of guns.
here in australia, all weapons must be registered and kept in a safe unless being used, cleaned, etc. i have no problems with this. it stops some psycho busting into my house and taking my gun so he can go rob the petrol station down the road.

as for the NRA, they are a bunch of rednecks. carrying concealed pistols around every where is a joke. tasers and pepper spray should work for instances like that, i doubt many rapists use guns anyway.

[Moskitto]

While there are fewer guns here than in other places, there are still some.

Because there are some guns it is neccesary for some police to use guns, although it is not neccesary for all police to have guns, rather police should have the option to use guns if entering a dangerous situation.

Also guns (or indeed any weapon) are not neccesarilly the most effective weapons. In very close combat (as shown in some WW1 battles) a club can be a far more effective weapon than a gun due to the proximities.

Likewise, if approaching someone who's armed with a shotgun, it is perhaps not wise to go in armed with a club.

[Conghaileach]

from CommieBastard:
Here in the UK people arent allowed guns, are we bullied by the army?

That's funny. You can get gun licenses over here in Northern Ireland. Oh wait, sorry... Unionists can get gun licenses. All they have to do is give the guy they're Orange Lodge number, and hey presto - they have a legally-possessed weapon to protect themselves from fenian scum.