Why is the USA's working class attracted to right-wing politics?

[Bolshevik Sickle]

I find it unusual that the Western working class in general tends to be attracted to right-wing politics? I know you have labor unions and socialist groups in the United States but (no offence) most of the members are usually middle-class and limp-wristed (don't kid yourself), why is this? :confused:

Before the 50s working class people were up in arms to march with socialists and other left-wing groups.

It's pretty rare that you see working class people with left-wing groups (nowadays) My guess is that they are attracted to right-wing nationalism, and will vote for the right-wing as long as it means keeping women in the kitchen and gay people in the closet, even if means they have to remain lower-class.

[Hrafn]

What the hell are you on about.

[Bolshevik Sickle]

What the hell are you on about.

That Working class people in the west seem to be attracted to right-wing politics and capitalism. If you look at Tea Party demos they usually consists of working-class people, but in OWS rallies you see people wearing designer clothes with dyed hair.

[Sabot Cat]

Some of the white working class is perhaps more attracted to right-wing politics, but the same cannot be said for the rest of the proletariat.

[Hermes]

Sorry, 'limp-wristed'?

[Lily Briscoe]

I find it unusual that the Western working class in general tends to be attracted to right-wing politics? I know you have labor unions and socialist groups in the United States but (no offence) most of the members are usually middle-class and limp-wristed (don't kid yourself), why is this? :confused:

It's pretty rare that you see working class people with left-wing groups (nowadays) My guess is that they are attracted to right-wing nationalism, and will vote for the right-wing as long as it means keeping women in the kitchen and gay people in the closet, even if means they have to remain lower-class.

I think you have a really weird mental image of the working class... This is 2013; the working class in the United States isn't a bunch of gigantic, womanizing, muscular men with enormous, rock-hard hammers or whatever silly caricature you are relying on. For starters, women actually comprise most of the workforce in the US these days, so I don't really know what you mean about "limp-wristed" and "keeping women in the kitchen". It seems to betray a complete detachment from the subject you are actually commenting on.

That Working class people in the west seem to be attracted to right-wing politics and capitalism. If you look at Tea Party demos they usually consists of working-class people, but in OWS rallies you see people wearing designer clothes with dyed hair.
A lot of OWS were students, but a lot of the Tea Party were classic, land-owning middle class. I don't think the US working class does tend to be particularly right-wing; I think workers here tend to be very apolitical.

[Tenka]

Sorry, 'limp-wristed'?

The OP seems unaware of the general homophobia of this terminology. Not sure if trolling or just ignorant....
Anyway, polls in the U.S. have shown fairly high "acceptance" of homosexuality (make of that whatever you will), and since most people are working class, one infers that most working class people are not really homophobic in the U.S., whatever contrary perception some time spent at grade school or in the comments section of Youtube may form. Tea Party is astroturf, white supremacists are largely viewed as a joke (a bad joke that they should stop telling), and sexism is a lot more subtle, insidious, than the presented caricature (except in comments section of Youtube).

Also what Strix said.

[tallguy]

I find it unusual that the Western working class in general tends to be attracted to right-wing politics? I know you have labor unions and socialist groups in the United States but (no offence) most of the members are usually middle-class and limp-wristed (don't kid yourself), why is this? :confused:

Before the 50s working class people were up in arms to march with socialists and other left-wing groups.

It's pretty rare that you see working class people with left-wing groups (nowadays) My guess is that they are attracted to right-wing nationalism, and will vote for the right-wing as long as it means keeping women in the kitchen and gay people in the closet, even if means they have to remain lower-class.
I think it is the result of a clever manipulation by the ruling class via the media as USA being the home of the "rugged individual". Taken to it's extreme, this fits in nicely with a capitalist system where everyone is indoctrinated into seeing themselves as atomised, Ayn-Randian ruthlessly competitive economic agents. It's all pretty fucked up and sad from where I am standing on this side of the Atlantic. Though, I'm bound to say, it's not much less sad here since Thatcher broke the working class. There is still something of an after glow of class solidarity here. But, that's all that's left here, an afterglow. We need thing to get a lot worse and quickly, before circumstances force people to look to one another to help them face their common enemy. I think we are seeing the first tentative signs of that with occupy and all the rest. I have some hope.

[Bolshevik Sickle]

Sorry, 'limp-wristed'?

The OP seems unaware of the general homophobia of this terminology.

Sorry! I didn't know. I thought limp-wrist was just another term for "weak".

[Jimmie Higgins]

That Working class people in the west seem to be attracted to right-wing politics and capitalism. If you look at Tea Party demos they usually consists of working-class people, but in OWS rallies you see people wearing designer clothes with dyed hair.

Well in someways yes, but I think in most of your examples here the opposite is true. For one thing on a general level, workers tend to vote Democratic and poor workers tend not to vote at all. On the issues, there's a general "social-democratic" sentiment among large numbers of workers and this used to be refelected more in the democrats before the mid-80s... They were never not a capitalist party and were never a friend to workers, but they used to at least organize to Co-opt the social-dem sentiment. But since at least bill Clinton the party has dropped all pretense on that and pose as rational technocrats generally as opposed to the irrational dogmatic republicans. So the result is that many workers with conservative social views will vote republican, because there's little difference on anything but some superficial stances on social issues.

For the specific example, while at some occupies there was both a more liberal orientation and many organizers might be sort of yuppie types or college educated NGO-types, I think the initial appeal and slogans were very popular among many urban workers. I don't have anything but anecdotal examples from occupy, but there's been a lot of demographic research on tea party supporters and the evidence is that they are on average richer and older than most people in the u.s.... Also have more education (which is a fact that blows the minds of yuppie liberals who tend to think all conservatives are blue collar workers with no education).

But what I think may be the case is that people in the u.s. Are less confident in left strategies and ability to deliver and that in the official politics the options are so narrow that it further demoralizes people and makes the settle or even adapt to the conservative neoliberal options.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

American politics are skewed to the right pretty much, even in the bourgeois scheme of things. I mean, even the Democrats are a right-wing party.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

Sorry! I didn't know. I thought limp-wrist was just another term for "weak".
Yeah, it's always been a term of abuse for gay men. But at least you know now.

[consuming negativity]

The USA as a whole is more right-wing than most other developed countries. It's the whole cultural individualist cowboy thing, compounded with a million other factors that include everything from the way we are educated to the relatively spacious country we inhabit.

[Jimmie Higgins]

In addition to the comrade's point above, Racism is an albatross around the neck of the u.s. Working class. It creates divides, is a barrier to class consciousness and practical organization and allows for greater repression of movements.

[The Feral Underclass]

I thought limp-wrist was just another term for "weak".

Yes it does. It is also a pejorative way to describe homosexual men.

[Os Cangaceiros]

Some of the white working class is perhaps more attracted to right-wing politics, but the same cannot be said for the rest of the proletariat.

Hahaha work in a cannery or in construction for a bit and then tell me that

[Os Cangaceiros]

Before the 50s working class people were up in arms to march with socialists and other left-wing groups.


Also this is pretty much myth-making in it's implication of some sort of substantial alliance between the far left and the broader working class. Working class people were more combative in the past but that was overwhelmingly in support of their own economic self-interest in terms of gaining more wages, more benefits etc, it wasn't in relation to the more "esoteric" political goals of the far-left, which has always been a tiny minority in the USA compared to the working population of the nation as a whole, even back during the "glory days" & which, for the most part, working class people in this country had little to no interest in.

[Sabot Cat]

Hahaha work in a cannery or in construction for a bit and then tell me that

I'm not saying that all working class people of color are going to affiliate more with the left-wing in U.S. politics, just that an overwhelming majority do, much more than they would with astroturf movements like the "Tea Party" and the like.

http://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/ucuq4h3maeuir6zbpjhglw.gif

My point in bringing this up is that the OP is operating under the impression that the conservative leanings of the white working class is representative of all of the proletariat, when that just isn't true. In fact, I would argue that right-wing politics are more popular with the white proletariat as a reaction to the diversity in American society more than anything else.

[Remus Bleys]

I'm not saying that all working class people of color are going to affiliate more with the left-wing in U.S. politics, just that an overwhelming majority do, much more than they would with astroturf movements like the "Tea Party" and the like.

http://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/ucuq4h3maeuir6zbpjhglw.gif

My point in bringing this up is that the OP is operating under the impression that the conservative leanings of the white working class is representative of all of the proletariat, when that just isn't true. In fact, I would argue that right-wing politics are more popular with the white proletariat as a reaction to the diversity in American society more than anything else.

>implying that democrats aren't right-wing capitalist assholes

[Os Cangaceiros]

The Democratic Party is not the "left", it's a center-right capitalist party, so I'm not sure what the significance of allegiance to it is. In fact most white workers I know (and I live in one of the few remaining American states where the forces of traditional organized labor are still pretty powerful) are strong supporters of their own unions as vehicles for their own self-interest, getting into a union means that you'll make good money, and that's sharply at odds with anti-union Tea Party rhetoric, which I think goes to show how "working class" forces like the Tea Party are.

That's not to say that white union workers here are left-leaning or progressive, though. They're not. They hold the same reactionary right-wing views that blacks, latinos, Asians, and everyone else do. They just have a clear view of their own self-interest, and I don't think that the support for this or that capitalist party has any significance beyond that. (Although there are complex reasons why some people do occassionally vote against their economic self-interest, esp. in the American South).

I think the main division between the "forces of reaction" and the "forces of progress", if any can be discerned at all, is generational and not racial. In regards to social issues anyway.

[Sabot Cat]

>implying that democrats aren't right-wing capitalist assholes


The Democratic Party is not the "left", it's a center-right capitalist party, so I'm not sure what the significance of allegiance to it is.

"Lean Democratic" is pretty much the only way the survey taking group allowed people to say they are more left-wing than not, even if they aren't with the Democratic Party.


In fact most white workers I know (and I live in one of the few remaining American states where the forces of traditional organized labor are still pretty powerful) are strong supporters of their own unions as vehicles for their own self-interest, getting into a union means that you'll make good money, and that's sharply at odds with anti-union Tea Party rhetoric, which I think goes to show how "working class" forces like the Tea Party are.

And I have known many white workers who are reactionaries because they lack class consciousness, although I do agree with your general point.



I think the main division between the "forces of reaction" and the "forces of progress", if any can be discerned at all, is generational and not racial. In regards to social issues anyway.

I think it's both, in regards to economic issues.

[Comrade Chernov]

It's because of the concept of the American Dream that portions of one generation of Americans had. The notion that if you work hard enough and stay positive and keep at it, you can be upper-middle-class by the time you retire and live out your final years in luxury.

Which is, of course, utter bullshit, but the masses seem to eat it up.

[Bolshevik Sickle]

Some of the white working class is perhaps more attracted to right-wing politics, but the same cannot be said for the rest of the proletariat.
Hahaha work in a cannery or in construction for a bit and then tell me thatI'm not saying that all working class people of color are going to affiliate more with the left-wing in U.S. politics, just that an overwhelming majority do, much more than they would with astroturf movements like the "Tea Party" and the like.

http://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/ucuq4h3maeuir6zbpjhglw.gif

My point in bringing this up is that the OP is operating under the impression that the conservative leanings of the white working class is representative of all of the proletariat, when that just isn't true. In fact, I would argue that right-wing politics are more popular with the white proletariat as a reaction to the diversity in American society more than anything else.>implying that democrats aren't right-wing capitalist assholes

Democrats are Crony Capitalists
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2013/11/07/obamacares-crony-capitalism-worse-than-we-thought/ (http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2013/11/07/obamacares-crony-capitalism-worse-than-we-thought/)
http://www.aei-ideas.org/2013/07/obamacare-crony-capitalism-at-its-finest/ (http://www.aei-ideas.org/2013/07/obamacare-crony-capitalism-at-its-finest/)

[Remus Bleys]

Democrats are Crony Capitalists
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2013/11/07/obamacares-crony-capitalism-worse-than-we-thought/ (http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2013/11/07/obamacares-crony-capitalism-worse-than-we-thought/)
http://www.aei-ideas.org/2013/07/obamacare-crony-capitalism-at-its-finest/ (http://www.aei-ideas.org/2013/07/obamacare-crony-capitalism-at-its-finest/)this site reaks of libertarianism

[Bolshevik Sickle]

Some of the white working class is perhaps more attracted to right-wing politics, but the same cannot be said for the rest of the proletariat.
Hahaha work in a cannery or in construction for a bit and then tell me thatI'm not saying that all working class people of color are going to affiliate more with the left-wing in U.S. politics, just that an overwhelming majority do, much more than they would with astroturf movements like the "Tea Party" and the like.

http://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/ucuq4h3maeuir6zbpjhglw.gif

My point in bringing this up is that the OP is operating under the impression that the conservative leanings of the white working class is representative of all of the proletariat, when that just isn't true. In fact, I would argue that right-wing politics are more popular with the white proletariat as a reaction to the diversity in American society more than anything else.>implying that democrats aren't right-wing capitalist assholes

Democrats are Crony Capitalists
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2013/11/07/obamacares-crony-capitalism-worse-than-we-thought/ (http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2013/11/07/obamacares-crony-capitalism-worse-than-we-thought/)
http://www.aei-ideas.org/2013/07/obamacare-crony-capitalism-at-its-finest/ (http://www.aei-ideas.org/2013/07/obamacare-crony-capitalism-at-its-finest/)this site reaks of libertarianism

http://imageshack.us/a/img10/9564/6hi0.png

[Lily Briscoe]

It's because of the concept of the American Dream that portions of one generation of Americans had. The notion that if you work hard enough and stay positive and keep at it, you can be upper-middle-class by the time you retire and live out your final years in luxury.

Which is, of course, utter bullshit, but the masses seem to eat it up.

I don't know anybody who thinks they are ever going to comfortably retire (the recession seemed to dispel any illusions that people still had about that possibility), let alone anyone who thinks they are magically going to go from working a shit job to somehow 'living in luxury'.

[Taters]

Democrats are Crony Capitalists
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2013/11/07/obamacares-crony-capitalism-worse-than-we-thought/
http://www.aei-ideas.org/2013/07/obamacare-crony-capitalism-at-its-finest/

I guess it makes sense that'd you get your idea of communism and capitalism from libertarian sites.

[Bolshevik Sickle]

Some of the white working class is perhaps more attracted to right-wing politics, but the same cannot be said for the rest of the proletariat.
Hahaha work in a cannery or in construction for a bit and then tell me thatI'm not saying that all working class people of color are going to affiliate more with the left-wing in U.S. politics, just that an overwhelming majority do, much more than they would with astroturf movements like the "Tea Party" and the like.

http://content.gallup.com/origin/gallupinc/GallupSpaces/Production/Cms/POLL/ucuq4h3maeuir6zbpjhglw.gif

My point in bringing this up is that the OP is operating under the impression that the conservative leanings of the white working class is representative of all of the proletariat, when that just isn't true. In fact, I would argue that right-wing politics are more popular with the white proletariat as a reaction to the diversity in American society more than anything else.>implying that democrats aren't right-wing capitalist assholes

Democrats are Crony Capitalists
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2013/11/07/obamacares-crony-capitalism-worse-than-we-thought/ (http://www.commentarymagazine.com/2013/11/07/obamacares-crony-capitalism-worse-than-we-thought/)
http://www.aei-ideas.org/2013/07/obamacare-crony-capitalism-at-its-finest/ (http://www.aei-ideas.org/2013/07/obamacare-crony-capitalism-at-its-finest/)this site reaks of libertarianismI guess it makes sense that'd you get your idea of communism and capitalism from libertarian sites.

So you support ObamaCare or what?

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

Can you explain the difference between crony capitalism and normal capitalism for us?