Antifa movements outside of Western countries?

[Bolshevik Sickle]

ITT: Antifa movements outside of Western countries

http://img855.imageshack.us/img855/2807/uwnp.jpg
I know this might seem like a shitpost, but I am asking a question that I don't have the answer too.

Is there any known Far-Left or Antifa movements outside of the Western World?

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Egypt-Antifa/210273092443898 (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Egypt-Antifa/210273092443898)
There seems to a very small Antifa group in Egypt (Egypt has about 80 million people and that Antifa Egypt page only has 620 likes), but they don't seem to very militant outside of the internet.

I would suspect think that there would be an Antifa-esque movement in Syria that opposes Assad, especially since he openly endorsed by Western Fascists.
http://louisproyect.org/2013/06/23/british-fascist-vists-syria-as-guest-of-bashar-al-assad/ (http://louisproyect.org/2013/06/23/british-fascist-vists-syria-as-guest-of-bashar-al-assad/)
http://freehalab.wordpress.com/2013/10/10/assads-neo-nazi-supporters/ (http://freehalab.wordpress.com/2013/10/10/assads-neo-nazi-supporters/)

Although I guess a good reason for the lack of Antifa-inspired movements outside of the West is due to the fact that most non-western countries are more oppressive (thus making civil uprising harder and more difficult) or lack of technology and communications (so less social media, where Antifa movements are usually organized)

[Sasha]

There are obviously far left groups all over the world, specific antifa groups in the style of Western autonomous antifa groups are a more specific phenomenon. I know these kind of groups, besides indeed Egypt to exist in Japan, most of the major countries in south America, Israel, australia and NZ (though I guess they count as West) and Russia. Obviously Russia (at least where these groups are, Moscow/st Petersburg) is also in the west though they deserve a mention as they, besides from an far left background they also have "ethnic" antifascist self defence groups from the Caucasus.

[Sasha]

Oh, and I forgot small groups in Indonesia and other Asian countries that have an anarcho punk scene, I think you can say that where ever there is a left-politiced punk/skinhead scene and/or football ultra's there are "antifa" groups.

[Bolshevik Sickle]

Oh, and I forgot small groups in Indonesia and other Asian countries that have an anarcho punk scene, I think you can say that where ever there is a left-politiced punk/skinhead scene and/or football ultra's there are "antifa" groups.

Yeah that's the way I see, not necessarily Antifa in name but definitely Antifa-inspired.

[IBleedRed]

The problem with Syria is that it is a complete mess. Yes, Assad is endorsed by the European far-right, but he is opposed by none other than Islamic fundamentalists. So, who should antifa activists side with? The answer should be "neither side", but in practical terms, for Syrians on the ground, there are two sides to choose from. One is quasi-fascist and somewhat repressive, but affords secular politics a chance to break through, whereas the other side is even more repressive and much more reactionary (the "rebel" side).

Ba'athism is a reactionary ideology but it is not the worst condition for the countries of that region. The early-to-mid 20th century saw the rise of secular politics in the Middle East, embodied by various nationalist and some socialist parties. Now, both are equally threatened by Islamic fundamentalists. As bad as Ba'athists are, Marxists have a better chance of being heard in a secular society than in an Islamic society.

My 2 cents.

[Bolshevik Sickle]

If you consider Feminist movements to fall under the category of Antifa, then here is a Feminist movement in Brazil. It's minuscule though, and plus since I'm form a Western country I won't hear about what goes on in Latin America very often (but it still concerns me just as much as the rest of the world).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slutwalk_in_Latin_America#Brazil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slutwalk_in_Latin_America#Brazil)
http://g1.globo.com/rio-de-janeiro/noticia/2011/07/marcha-das-vadias-reune-mulheres-no-rio-contra-violencia-sexual.html (http://g1.globo.com/rio-de-janeiro/noticia/2011/07/marcha-das-vadias-reune-mulheres-no-rio-contra-violencia-sexual.html)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7f/Marcha_das_Vadias_Bras%C3%ADlia2011.JPG/400px-Marcha_das_Vadias_Bras%C3%ADlia2011.JPG


With a protest irreverent name, the March of *****es took hundreds of women, on the afternoon of Saturday (2), Copacabana Beach, the South Zone of Rio de Janeiro. The demonstration is to combat sexual violence and assaults committed against women. According to the Military Police, about 300 people participated in the movement. There were no riots or serious occurrences. According to the organizers, the movement was named in a protest in Canada in February. The action was a response to the declaration of a policeman during a lecture at the University of Toronto, one of the most important in the country. The agent would have suggested to students who avoid dressing like "sluts" to avoid being victims of sexual harassment.

I know this falls more under the category of bourgeois feminism, but it's better than nothing.

[Bala Perdida]

I know there's a strong presence of Anarchists in Mexico. I can't name specific groups but I know they're there. I don't think Mexico is a politicaly western country. Also I've heard of Anarchist movements in Venezuela opposed to both right wing organizations and the PSUV.

[Tim Cornelis]

I'm sorry, but we might as well start to list any feminist, anarchist, or socialist group in existence, or outside Western countries. Yes, there are anarchist groups in Venezuela and Mexico, and Kenya, and Nigeria, and South Africa, and India, and Brazil. There are feminists movements in virtually any country, Bangladesh, India, Peru.
It's not as if some small non-revolutionary feminist movement in Brazil has any significance, and why would it fall under antifascism?

[Flying Purple People Eater]

South Africa has a shit ton of antifa groups. Maybe not under exactly the same terms, but they are most certainly anti-fascist.

[Devrim]

South Africa has a shit ton of antifa groups. Maybe not under exactly the same terms, but they are most certainly anti-fascist.

I wouldn't imagine that South Africa has 'Anti-Fascist' groups in the European sense. It really wouldn't make much sense there at all.

To a certain extent, I would imagine that it is quite a 'European' thing. 'Fascism' doesn't have the same resonance outside of Europe (and North America).

Devrim

[Bolshevik Sickle]

I wouldn't imagine that South Africa has 'Anti-Fascist' groups in the European sense. It really wouldn't make much sense there at all.

To a certain extent, I would imagine that it is quite a 'European' thing. 'Fascism' doesn't have the same resonance outside of Europe (and North America).

Devrim

I see your point, but in the OP I just mean like Antifa-esque or Antifa inspired.

Also.
https://www.facebook.com/AnarchistsLebanon (https://www.facebook.com/AnarchistsLebanon)
Video of Turkish Antifa (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGi3QI1aM6w)
http://www.awalls.org/ (Anarchist movement in Israel, but Israel seems pretty western as far as culture goes. (http://www.awalls.org/)

"Anarchism is international" (http://struggle.ws/inter.html) - This website contains information on past and present anarchist movements throughout the world.

[Bala Perdida]

Im just answering with what I can. I remember the anarchists being pretty active during the 2012 elections in Mexico alongside the Yo Soy 132 movement, which has basically died out by now. In those terms then I guess your right to call them small.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

I wouldn't imagine that South Africa has 'Anti-Fascist' groups in the European sense. It really wouldn't make much sense there at all.
Devrim

Well I don't know what you mean by the 'in the European sense' (what the hell does that even mean? Red and black flag logos?), but it most certainly has groups committed to anti-fascism and clashing with white supremacist groups.

And there are HEAPS of fascists in SA. The personality of a 'Non-racist' to the average white Afrikaner would get you thrown in prison for hate crimes in any other country.

[Devrim]

I see your point, but in the OP I just mean like Antifa-esque or Antifa inspired.

Also.
...Video of Turkish Antifa (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGi3QI1aM6w) ...


I have never heard of any Turkish Antifa. That video shows the Turkish Communist Party.

As for whether there is Fascism in Turkey even, there is certainly no neo-Nazism. It just doesn't exist. Of course the left likes to use fascism as a buzz word, and I have heard the three main political parties all called fascist at one point or other.

If I had to charecterise any Turkish organisations as 'fascist' it would be the ultra-nationalists, but they are very different to European fascists.


Well I don't know what you mean by the 'in the European sense' (what the hell does that even mean? Red and black flag logos?),

I mean groups like the European Antifa groups.


...but it most certainly has groups committed to anti-fascism and clashing with white supremacist groups.

And there are HEAPS of fascists in SA. The personality of a 'Non-racist' to the average white Afrikaner would get you thrown in prison for hate crimes in any other country.

There aren't groups running around playing at gang war with white-supremacist groups in South Africa. Neither are there white racist groups going round attacking ethnic minorities. They are an ethnic minority. When groups like the AWB put up their heads too high, the state deals with them with its police force and law. Probably the image that springs to most people (who are old enough to remember when these sort of groups had any pretence of power) is a Bophuthatswanan policeman shooting an AWB member back in the 1980s:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0c/Bophuthatswana_coup_Execution.jpg

The guy in the left of the picture who is just about to shoot the three AWB members is a policeman not an Antifa member.

Devrim

[Tifosi]

There aren't groups running around playing at gang war with white-supremacist groups in South Africa. Neither are there white racist groups going round attacking ethnic minorities. They are an ethnic minority. When groups like the AWB put up their heads too high, the state deals with them with its police force and law. Probably the image that springs to most people (who are old enough to remember when these sort of groups had any pretence of power) is a Bophuthatswanan policeman shooting an AWB member back in the 1980s:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/0c/Bophuthatswana_coup_Execution.jpg

The guy in the left of the picture who is just about to shoot the three AWB members is a policeman not an Antifa member.

Devrim

Got anything I can read on this or Bantustans in general?

[Bolshevik Sickle]

I have never heard of any Turkish Antifa. That video shows the Turkish Communist Party.

As for whether there is Fascism in Turkey even, there is certainly no neo-Nazism. It just doesn't exist. Of course the left likes to use fascism as a buzz word, and I have heard the three main political parties all called fascist at one point or other.

If I had to charecterise any Turkish organisations as 'fascist' it would be the ultra-nationalists, but they are very different to European fascists.


The only thing different would be skin color and facial structure, and probably lack of swastikas and third reich-imagery. But I'm sure they would share the same reactionary views and European Fascists, like homophobia, strict immigration laws, and hostility to LGBT rights.

[Devrim]

Got anything I can read on this or Bantustans in general?

Not really, it was pretty big news when it happened. I can remember watching it on TV. The Wiki page on the coup is here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bophuthatswana_coup). I don't know of anything particularly interesting that was written about it though.

Devrim

[Devrim]

The only thing different would be skin color and facial structure,

Well, people in Turkey are pretty similar, ethnically, to other people in Southern Europe. According to various studies, the populations of Turkey and Greece are virtually genetically the same, so the 'skin colour', and 'facial structure' are pretty much the same too.


and probably lack of swastikas and third reich-imagery.

Well, yes, obviously.


But I'm sure they would share the same reactionary views and European Fascists, like homophobia, strict immigration laws, and hostility to LGBT rights.Obviously not on immigration laws. Immigration laws are not a subject of political discussion in Turkey. It is not a topic that the right, or anybody else goes on about. Actually the whole system was overhauled, and made much easier a couple of years ago, and there was no political discussion of it at all. I would doubt most people even noticed.

Which leaves it down to "homophobia" and "hostility to LGBT rights", which of course the right is against, though even the concept of what it means to be a homosexual is quite different in Turkey than in the West. It is not much to hang a definition of fascism on though. Particularly when you get outside the West, homophobia is rampant in the left as well, and you will find many left groups describing homosexuality as a bourgeois deviation caused by capitalist society.

Devrim

[Sasha]

I would certainly classify the MHP/greywolves as fascists though, obviously they have almost nothing in common with nazism, they are politically more close to the junta's in south America etc.

[Devrim]

I would certainly classify the MHP/greywolves as fascists though, obviously they have almost nothing in common with nazism, they are politically more close to the junta's in south America etc.

Well yes, you could describe them as fascists, and perhaps the BBP even more so. As you say there is no Nazi imagery at all. They may be fascists, but they certainly aren't Nazis.

There is not the same feeling about 'fascism' as there is in Europe though. There certainly aren't Antifa style organisations today running around having confrontations with them. A friend of mine, who is a member of the CHP, the 2nd International party in Turkey, voted for them 'tactically' in the last elections. This was not uncommon. I can't imagine European leftists tactically voting for fascist parties.

The second question, and this is also related to the above point, is how different are they from other mainstream Turkish political parties? When they were in government (as a junior coalition partner) a few parliments ago, I didn't really notice any difference.

Devrim

[Sasha]

Yeah,maybe its different over there, we actually had a bunch of scuffles with the greywolved (or better, wanabe greywolves), they have a habit of attacking Kurdish comunity places here and once stabbed a hungerstriker in the Hague to death. As such we often, or at least used to,, mobilse with AFA against mhp congresses etc, also there was a prominent research group originating in AFA that exposed greywolves infiltration in the socdem and greenparties.

[B.K.]

First let's define what "antifa" is. For me, "antifa" is a specific term for the members of various youth subcultures who are confronting those whom they see as "fascists" by street fighting. From this viewpoint, labelling all and every leftist or even bourgeous feminist organization as "antifa" would be a too big stretch.

Given this definition, antifa movements indeed are almost nonexistent outside of Western countries. Here in Russia, most of such movements seem to have ceased their existence in the last few years - mostly because the current problems with this country are way too serious, and can't be solved just by bashing some nazi hooligans on the streets. Moreover, the whole movement seems to be discredited by attacks on people that had nothing to do with nazis. As a result, most lestists and anti-fascists in Russia doesn't call themselves "antifa" any more.

As a general rule, most youth subcultures are very small (if existent at all) outside the "West", mostly because non-western countries are indeed more oppressive, and even wearing unusual clothes/paraphernalia is very much frowned upon in many of such countres. Moreover, the society there often associate youth subcultures (not all, of course, but most) with antisocial behaviour, excessive drinking and doing drugs.

[newdayrising]

I don't think feminists count as Antifa.
In any case the actual Antifa thing in Brazil is pretty restricted to youth subculture, pretty much a punk vs. skin thing and very much a waste of time. At best, it's kids who want to "do something" politically but end up getting caught up in mindless gang wars.

Also what constitutes a "western" country?


If you consider Feminist movements to fall under the category of Antifa, then here is a Feminist movement in Brazil. It's minuscule though, and plus since I'm form a Western country I won't hear about what goes on in Latin America very often (but it still concerns me just as much as the rest of the world).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slutwalk_in_Latin_America#Brazil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slutwalk_in_Latin_America#Brazil)
http://g1.globo.com/rio-de-janeiro/noticia/2011/07/marcha-das-vadias-reune-mulheres-no-rio-contra-violencia-sexual.html (http://g1.globo.com/rio-de-janeiro/noticia/2011/07/marcha-das-vadias-reune-mulheres-no-rio-contra-violencia-sexual.html)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7f/Marcha_das_Vadias_Bras%C3%ADlia2011.JPG/400px-Marcha_das_Vadias_Bras%C3%ADlia2011.JPG



I know this falls more under the category of bourgeois feminism, but it's better than nothing.

[Bolshevik Sickle]

I don't think feminists count as Antifa.
In any case the actual Antifa thing in Brazil is pretty restricted to youth subculture, pretty much a punk vs. skin thing and very much a waste of time. At best, it's kids who want to "do something" politically but end up getting caught up in mindless gang wars.

Also what constitutes a "western" country?

Western countries (in Blue)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/Clash_of_Civilizations_map.png

[newdayrising]

Ok, this is a list of "western countries" according to someone.
But how do you define it?
In what way exactly is New Guinea or the Philipines more "western" than, say Chile?

Really, I have no idea what Americans are saying when they talk about "western society".

[Bolshevik Sickle]

Ok, this is a list of "western countries" according to someone.
But how do you define it?
In what way exactly is New Guinea or the Philipines more "western" than, say Chile?

Really, I have no idea what Americans are saying when they talk about "western society".

Not really. Western countries are predominately European populated countries. "Westernized" countries are countries with Western liberal influence, like Japan and South Korea.

[newdayrising]

My question is not the kind you answer with "not really".
Then your map is not worth much, is it?
Argentina, Chile, Uruguay and Brazil were predominantly populated by europeans, as opposed to The Philippines and New Guinea. However, there's a separate category for "Latin America".
Also, this definition of yours is according to who?
I still don't really get what "western" means. I'm not being ironic here, I think it's a term Americans use more often than other people.

[Devrim]

My question is not the kind you answer with "not really".
Then your map is not worth much, is it?

It is a bit of a strange map. Papua New Guinea is part of the West. European Turkey is Orthodox, as is Kazakhstan. It seems like it was made by someone who didn't really know what they were talking about.


I still don't really get what "western" means. I'm not being ironic here, I think it's a term Americans use more often than other people.

I think it is a term which is used outside America. Certainly people in the Middle East use it.

Devrim

[newdayrising]

Makes sense that they do. But is it in the same sense as americans do?
Who's regarded as "western" in the middle east, majority Christian countries with european cultural heritage in general or is it a more narrow definition, like the american one seems to be?
I've never been to the middle east but from my experience Europeans don't seem to talk about very much and the only people in latin america I've heard talking abou "the west" in a political context are weird neocon types and fascists.

[keine_zukunft]

Oh there are lots of antifa groups outside of the west and groups that do antifascist work too.
ok south america..chile, colombia and brazil i know for a fact that r.a.s.h is big there and they do have a significant neo nazi skinhead movement in that part of the world especially chile and brazil.
brazil notably has a big antifa scene too
brazil also has an anti antifa autonomous nat movement too which does show that politics is beyond 'subculture' wars as someone said earlier in this thread.
I believe beirut has an antifa group as there quite alot of fascist scumbags in the lebanon believe it or not!!
turkey im not sure but i have come across the greywolves many times. turkish antifascists have had street wars with them for years in kruezberg, where they own some restaurants too. the refugee camp was also attacked by greywolves too rather than by white german nazis.

[Buitraker]

Oh there are lots of antifa groups outside of the west and groups that do antifascist work too.
ok south america..chile, colombia and brazil i know for a fact that r.a.s.h is big there and they do have a significant neo nazi skinhead movement in that part of the world especially chile and brazil.
brazil notably has a big antifa scene too check
Here it is a interview from R.A.S.H Bogota(Colombia)


HbF12wC1FXU

[Left Voice]

http://www.labornetjp.org/news/2014/0316shasin

I know most people here don't understand Japanese, but the third picture should be self-explanatory. I know Japan has strong anti-racism groups, but it's the first time I'd heard of proper antifa groups.

[Left Voice]

Following on from the above post.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TqnUKd7vEU8

Again in Japanese, but it's pretty easy to figure out who are the nationalists and who are the anti-racist counter-protestors. I see a fair few antifa signs in there.

[Halert]

Announcement for Counter-demo in part english here:http://cracjpn.tumblr.com/post/79168202918/0316nopasaran
Picturs of event and some english about it here:
http://shitback.tumblr.com/