Time to get organized

[Bolshevik Sickle]

If you ask me, the Antifa movement has become too disorganized, while the opposite is true with Far-Right movements. I will show some examples.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Pn_McwP3DaA/To7vC8BPO5I/AAAAAAAACqI/dw1KeXEAHe4/s400/occupy+wall+street+tea+party.jpg

Tea Party

·Clean cut, well-dressed, organized, calm and collected.
Occupy Wall Street

·Disorganized, Chaotic, not very calm, and messy.


If someone is watching a comparison between the two movements on television chances are they will align themselves with the Tea Party based on the way the Tea Party presents themselves.

http://www.out.com/sites/out.com/files/e6953ea97aaf21fe7dc0e1a2ad755149.jpg

This kind of behavior is nothing new from the Far-Right, but it's becoming increasingly popular with Far-Left groups like Antifa too.


http://vkb.isvg.org/@api/deki/files/1021/=greek_flags.jpg
This kind of violence is counterproductive, and only serves as potential heat on our records. I would not condone a violent anarchist uprising unless it were in a time of true oppression (i.e. Martial Law, Police State, Purge). To do so at any random point in time would be pointless.


http://imageshack.us/a/img441/3794/dzvu.jpghttp://www.library.yale.edu/slavic/microform/images/Comintern2.GIF

Revolutionaries then

http://www.gonzotimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/anarchists.jpg

"Revolutionaries" now. I mean, I know they are anarchist and protesting against the war, that's good. But do you honestly think they look like they're in the position to at least psychologically defeat some Neo-Nazis?

http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/3843/ailh.jpghttp://i1.ytimg.com/vi/EOf9xItatMM/mqdefault.jpg

My guess is a resounding NO. These Neo-Nazis (Or "National Socialist" as they like to be called) look like they are more than willing to pound in the skulls of their enemies.


http://www.splcenter.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/jtready360.jpg

The enemy is getting smarter, it's time we do the same.

[Comrade Samuel]

As much as I'd like to go on a rant about how you're asking us to become more like the enamy....perhaps it's more important to question why there are penises sword fighting on that neo-Nazi insignia in the 2nd picture from the top. :laugh:

[The Jay]

Who is this "our" and what made you think that this was a good idea?

[Bolshevik Sickle]

As much as I'd like to go on a rant about how you're asking us to become more like the tea baggers....
Because, anarchy is not chaos (http://www.secretsofthefed.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/318917_380678852014375_166739894_n.jpg), so there's no reason to be chaotic.

why there are penises sword fighting on that neo-Nazi insignia in the 2nd picture from the top.
I didn't put that there lol.

[Taters]

...huh

So let me get this straight... you're telling us to act more like neo-nazis and adopt their tactics?

[Bolshevik Sickle]

...huh

So let me get this straight... you're telling us to act more like neo-nazis and adopt their tactics?

No, I am talking about simply adopting the style and tactics of our predecessors.

http://www.local-life.com/st-petersburg/pages/m.1161_1917-russian-revolution.jpghttp://img706.imageshack.us/img706/2730/ickh.jpg
http://www.marxist.com/images/stories/china/Jinzhou_1948.jpg

They were revolutionaries, not just pissed off hipsters.

[Remus Bleys]

3/10
still lold

[Taters]

No, I am talking about simply adopting the style and tactics of our predecessors.

They were revolutionaries, not just pissed off hipsters.
It's not fucking 1917 anymore, you twit.

[Bolshevik Sickle]

It's not fucking 1917 anymore, you twit.

I'm not actually talking about a coup d'eat, I just mean we should be more elegant.

[Leftsolidarity]

so you want us to dress up and play revolutionary instead of just being normal people and dressing as we please?

[Taters]

I'm not actually talking about a coup d'eat, I just mean we should be more elegant.

elegant? dress up in nazi uniforms and stand around you mean?

It could not be any clearer you're a fascist troll.

[Tenka]

I'm not actually talking about a coup d'eat, I just mean we should be more elegant.

Lenin's fur clothes are pretty nice.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Time to organize our wardrobes!

"Hegel remarks somewhere that all great world-historic facts and personages appear, so to speak, twice. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce." -Marx

[Bolshevik Sickle]

elegant? dress up in nazi uniforms and stand around you mean?

It could not be any clearer you're a fascist troll.

I'm trying to combat these fascist groups thank you very much. Also I'm actually part jewish to be honest, so even sympathizing with the Neo-Nazis is out of the equation for me.

[Remus Bleys]

elegant? dress up in nazi uniforms and stand around you mean?

It could not be any clearer you're a fascist troll.

Fascism revealed by Fashion.
Geti it? Its funny. Hahahaha.

[consuming negativity]

Yeah, because having a battalion of anarchist soldiers [and that's who you posted to compare the protesters to - soldiers] bearing rifles and walking down the streets of Washington DC would totally make middle-class liberals rally to our side. The revolution needs designer clothes and Starbucks coffee! :lol:

[Remus Bleys]

Here is the case against you: literally everything you have posted involvew fascism so much.
This "every racist is an equal racist."
The sheer stupidity in your posts.
You will post random shit on my wall that's nice.
You sent me a pm if I was in a relationship (isn't that a fash joke? That revleft is a gay dating site?)
Your obsession with nazbol. I remember you calling yourself nazbol several times on the chat.
And "they perfer to be called national socialists" bullshit.

Edit: your love of that nationalist stalinist speaker.
Furthermore: who uses the word homosexual in casual conversation?

My suggestion to you is
1. Be less stupid. You may have to quit this account and make a new one for the sheer embarrassment or continue posting, moving on from this silliness.
2. If you really are fash, get a better hobby.

[Bolshevik Sickle]

elegant? dress up in nazi uniforms and stand around you mean?

It could not be any clearer you're a fascist troll.

No, not Nazi uniforms. I was thinking nice Lenin-era Bolshevik style. Of course the trench coats would be a drag if the weather was hot. I still think we should be presentable. With of course communist or leftist paraphanelia and imagery.

[BIXX]

Because, anarchy is not chaos (http://www.secretsofthefed.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/318917_380678852014375_166739894_n.jpg), so there's no reason to be chaotic.

I hope anarchy will be chaos. You see, chaos is simply the breaking of patterns, so it means most often self-expression.

Also acting violent against the social order is not a bad thing.


I didn't put that there lol

I don't believe you! Lies!

[Remus Bleys]

Secrets of the fed. Lool.
Conspiracy theory about banks bullshit. Yeah, that isn't historically connected to antisemitism or anything.

[Bolshevik Sickle]

You will post random shit on my wall that's nice.

I think you're cool :)

You sent me a pm if I was in a relationship (isn't that a fash joke? That revleft is a gay dating site?)
I just wondering dude... :glare:

Your obsession with nazbol. I remember you calling yourself nazbol several times on the chat.
It's called a joke :glare:


And "they perfer to be called national socialists" bullshit.
Because name-calling is never good. Just going around calling your enemies "Fascist, Racist, Nazi" sounds illiterate. I call people what they are, even if I don't agree with them. Capitalists are nothing but pigs, but the ideology they follow is capitalism, as such, I call them capitalist. ;)


Furthermore: who uses the word homosexual in casual conversation?
That's the scientific term for gay



My suggestion to you is
1. Be less stupid.
Maybe I should...


You may have to quit this account and make a new one for the sheer embarrassment or continue posting, moving on from this silliness.
I'll just stop being silly :unsure:


2. If you really are fash, get a better hobby.
Not even white :glare:
.

[Bolshevik Sickle]

Secrets of the fed. Lool.
Conspiracy theory about banks bullshit. Yeah, that isn't historically connected to antisemitism or anything.

Well of course I am against the Federal Reserve. Marxist-Leninism is in itself opposed to a Central Bank.

[Futility Personified]

Remus... He isn't a fascist. Stop acting like an arsehole, recently you seem to have taken this upon yourself to start acting extremely high and mighty with people when you think they are wrong and quite frankly it is tiring. The OP might be a bit naive with this one but everyone is with something at some stage (for the record OP this isn't the greatest of ideas haha!) and just because we don't all share your towering intellect, doesn't give you carte blanche to start shitting on people from a great height.

[Remus Bleys]

Remus... He isn't a fascist. Stop acting like an arsehole, recently you seem to have taken this upon yourself to start acting extremely high and mighty with people when you think they are wrong and quite frankly it is tiring. The OP might be a bit naive with this one but everyone is with something at some stage (for the record OP this isn't the greatest of ideas haha!) and just because we don't all share your towering intellect, doesn't give you carte blanche to start shitting on people from a great height.

Id like to comment on this before I get on a pc and respond to sickle.

I wasn't calling him a fascist. Nor did I imply that. If you had reading skills you would realize it was taters and not me who said he was fascist. I didn't call him fascist, I said this is why people think he is fascist so he would stop doing these things.

Just because I don't sugarcode shit does not make me "nean" or elitist. Just because the way I write and talk bothers you does not give you carte blanche to start acting like I shit on everu post.

I mean why and when did the left turn into "the respectable discourse society"m?

[Ceallach_the_Witch]

No, not Nazi uniforms. I was thinking nice Lenin-era Bolshevik style. Of course the trench coats would be a drag if the weather was hot. I still think we should be presentable. With of course communist or leftist paraphanelia and imagery.

I wasn't aware that historical re-enactment was considered a viable revolutionary tactic :rolleyes:

[#FF0000]

words

The pictures of "revolutionaries then" you're linking are of armed militias, though. Demonstrators throughout history aren't usually there dressed up in uniforms, acting orderly. Also, the pictures of Occupy Wall Street you've posted are pictures of people being beaten by cops. You're expecting people to act orderly when they're being assaulted?

Going to a protest in business casual isn't going to make anyone take you seriously -- nobody takes the Tea Party seriously except for true believers, for instance. Being organized isn't the same as being image-conscious and expecting good press from big media outlets.

[human strike]

The spectacle of opposition is spectacular.

[Tolstoy]

I actually do agree that behaving in a disorderly manner is often a poor idea.

To be frank however, the fact is that Nazis are always going to look like they want to pound some skulls because assholes like to punch skulls and assholes also love rascism, ergo no matter what they are going to be much better ass kickers than we commies and anarchists who are guided more by compassion and fantasize about hurting others less.

Rightist groups have always been well organized and that is because Fascists like being told what to do. That is why they are fascists.

[o well this is ok I guess]

emulate old revolutionaries by getting a ton of submachine guns

[A Revolutionary Tool]

I actually do agree that behaving in a disorderly manner is often a poor idea.

To be frank however, the fact is that Nazis are always going to look like they want to pound some skulls because assholes like to punch skulls and assholes also love rascism, ergo no matter what they are going to be much better ass kickers than we commies and anarchists who are guided more by compassion and fantasize about hurting others less.

Rightist groups have always been well organized and that is because Fascists like being told what to do. That is why they are fascists.

I don't know about that man. Back when I actually had to deal with racist scumbags on a daily basis and fight them all the time I was pretty good at kicking their asses. Though you might have a point about my state of physical fitness right now but to be fair I haven't had to fight a racist asshole for a while.

[Ravachol]

Revolutionaries then:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/57/SpanishLeftistsShootStatueOfChrist.jpg/250px-SpanishLeftistsShootStatueOfChrist.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2f/Apr2_richmond_riot.jpg

http://robertgraham.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/penny-illustrated-17-june-1871.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/9qKHcUT.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ZnktNzR.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/2i1qV2C.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/2EUd9QF.jpg

'revolutionaries' now:

http://i.imgur.com/weLIPIG.png

[servusmoderni]

Remus... He isn't a fascist. Stop acting like an arsehole, recently you seem to have taken this upon yourself to start acting extremely high and mighty with people when you think they are wrong and quite frankly it is tiring. The OP might be a bit naive with this one but everyone is with something at some stage (for the record OP this isn't the greatest of ideas haha!) and just because we don't all share your towering intellect, doesn't give you carte blanche to start shitting on people from a great height.

I agree, he roams around this forum like he's a messiah. And I kind of spit on messiahs.

[servusmoderni]

Having a decentralized leadership has always been the problem of socialist movements. No one assumes leadership and everyone fuck ups.

And wanting an organized leadership doesn't make us fascists. Just organized. If "organization" becomes a synonym for "fascism." We have a great problem.

Propaganda is an important part of the revolution and look what we're looking like right now, a big bunch of dirty hippies.

I agree with everything you said, all those anarchists are very counter productive.

[Sabot Cat]

We do not need to be more "elegant" or "shape up". We're protesting, not attending a formal ball, and if our bourgeois adversaries happen to be able to afford better clothes and organize their astroturf events better than our grassroots movements, so be it. I hate to sound like an after-school special, but it's not about what you wear, it's about what you do.

Besides, have you not heard about the Sukhomlinov Effect?

[Bolshevik Sickle]

Besides, have you not heard about the Sukhomlinov Effect?



Sukhomlinov Effect

In a conflict between two armies with uniforms, all other things being equal, the guys with the more elaborate uniforms will lose.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SukhomlinovEffect

I see your point.

[servusmoderni]

We do not need to be more "elegant" or "shape up". We're protesting, not attending a formal ball, and if our bourgeois adversaries happen to be able to afford better clothes and organize their astroturf events better than our grassroots movements, so be it. I hate to sound like an after-school special, but it's not about what you wear, it's about what you do.

Besides, have you not heard about the Sukhomlinov Effect?

Well, having fancy parade uniforms doesn't mean it'll be the same uniforms for combat.

I think he was more referring to the tactics we use. Unfortunately, some of our tactics are pretty thuggish and give the rightist media the opportunity to fuck us over.

[Remus Bleys]

Won't the media fuck us over either way?

[Sabot Cat]

Won't the media fuck us over either way?

Yes, not to mention the ever present threat of agent provocateurs...

[servusmoderni]

Won't the media fuck us over either way?

True, but they'll have less to complain about. We could actually gain some public support. I don't know if you realized, but our current image is terrible. They portray us as the spawn of Satan, an Axis of Evil just by ourselves. I think we should find a way to collectively solve this problem.

You know there's something wrong when the current biggest communist in America is supposedly Obama.

[servusmoderni]

Yes, not to mention the ever present threat of agent provocateurs...

I found a way around that, I bought the same pair of boots the cops wear. Sometimes they think I'm one of them. :lol: Sometimes they don't and they beat the shit out of me though...

[Niall]

There is a point to his post guys. Being all dressed in simialr clothing would make the authorities jobs in singling you out harder. A lot of the ultas groups do it - and Im not on about the fascist ones

[Radio Spartacus]

"Guys, we can have the revolution right now, we just need to start wearing peacoats!"

Seriously though, there is a problem with looking like a social pariah but I agree with the criticisms of the op's point

[Rugged Collectivist]

Wrong on several levels but it's good that you're thinking about this kind of stuff.

1. The tea party isn't a genuine threat to the state's authority so they don't have to worry about repression. They show up, wave their signs, give speeches about the importance of voting Republican, then go home. You will virtually never see a tea party group clashing with police because they don't have to, and this makes them appear more "orderly". Preserving "order" means preserving the bourgeois order and it's something that we can't afford to do and shouldn't want to do anyway.

2. Wearing slacks doesn't automatically give you widespread appeal. The nazi's tried this and they still don't have it. It might help slightly but if you really want widespread appeal you would also have to tone down your rhetoric and adapt milder positions. Something that is, again, impossible and undesirable.

3. You're missing the point completely. The point isn't to tailor our views to what the majority of people currently find acceptable. It is to bring the majority over to our views.

[Ravachol]

There is a point to his post guys. Being all dressed in simialr clothing would make the authorities jobs in singling you out harder. A lot of the ultas groups do it - and Im not on about the fascist ones

You mean like this? Which has been a thing since the late '80s?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Black_Bloc_Hamburg.jpg

And you're wrong about 'ultras' (I assume you're referring to the casual subculture), they don't/didn't wear identical clothes on purpose but various high-end brands (stone island, la coste, fred perry, burberry etc.). If i'm not mistaken this has its origins in english football fans in the 80s bringing back mainland euro brands just as a fashion trend while the cops were looking for the typical skinhead hooligan look, helping them slip past police lines. Nowadays some beefy guy wearing a fred perry polo, burberry cap & stone island jacket just screams hooligan so there's that.

[Captain Red]

I for one agree I think we should become more organized.
But i don't think that the anti-fa movements have become less organized it's just that they are less active because for instance in Europe Nazism has become more popular with young people

[Niall]

You mean like this? Which has been a thing since the late '80s?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c0/Black_Bloc_Hamburg.jpg

And you're wrong about 'ultras' (I assume you're referring to the casual subculture), they don't/didn't wear identical clothes on purpose but various high-end brands (stone island, la coste, fred perry, burberry etc.). If i'm not mistaken this has its origins in english football fans in the 80s bringing back mainland euro brands just as a fashion trend while the cops were looking for the typical skinhead hooligan look, helping them slip past police lines. Nowadays some beefy guy wearing a fred perry polo, burberry cap & stone island jacket just screams hooligan so there's that.

I do like thast picture, its exactly what I meant yes.
Im on about Ultras, not casuals mate. Have a look at the groups around Europe. Green Brigade etc. You dont see them in fred perry, burberry or whatever. All dressed in similar eg khaki coats