Admin/Moderator Abuse

[Snard]

I have been seeing quite a bit of administrator censorship and abuse of "power" on this site - a site that is home to claims of advocating the opposite. When real issues are brought to the light, they are instantly pulled back into the dark if it is found to be "trolling" even though it really isn't. I won't name any names in this because I won't publicly be calling people out, but another user here had posted a very serious thread (about which I won't mention since I don't want this thread to get taken down for the same half-assed reasons) and it was immediately labelled "trolling" and closed.

Another related issue is ridiculously frequent infractions for minor things, if they can be considered "things" at all, if you get what I mean.

While not always a huge issue, I think it is disgusting that supposed leftists act like this towards their comrades. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people on here advocate freedom and are against censorship. Especially of their comrades.

(If there is a better place for this thread, please put it there. I couldn't really choose one and thought that this was the best one that I could find.)

[Sasha]

if you want unfettered "freedom of speech" you can go to 4chan or something and see how that contributes to the quality of discussion.
or you can start and manage your own forum of course, here you need to adhere to the guidelines we have set to make this place as functional and broadly welcoming as possible without the whole mod/admin team ending up in jail and this place closed down because someone needed to "freedom of speech!!!".
if you organise a party or a political event i also dont come and piss in the corner, make racist jokes or sexually assault your fellow guests, i assume if i would you would acquaint me with the curb outside.

[Snard]

I think some admins are too quick to jump to an infraction or closing a thread. It's seems as though all consideration is thrown out the window.

[#FF0000]

if you want unfettered "freedom of speech" you can go to 4chan or something and see how that contributes to the quality of discussion.

That would be cool if moderation on this website did anything for the quality of discussion. Instead it seems like admins and moderators will often act unilaterally and arbitrarily, enforcing rules sometimes with whatever tool they feel like using at that moment.

And then beyond that, mods and admins are totally unaccountable. There's nowhere for users to go and ask questions or complain about mod/admin conduct except for private message which, by virtue of it being private, still means that there's no accountability there.

[Hrafn]

The admins don't do enough, re: rape apologism, sexism and homophobia.

[Snard]

The admins don't do enough, re: rape apologism, sexism and homophobia.

They leave those confrontations and responsibilities to the common users and address insignificant things instead.

[#FF0000]

The admins don't do enough, re: rape apologism, sexism and homophobia.

It's a serious mixed bag, there.

[The Feral Underclass]

The solution to your problem. (http://www.revleft.com/vb/login.php?do=logout&logouthash=1386165025-64b84b047c79ae4d9cb6834f7507d9541cb5e9eb)

[Snard]

The solution to your problem.

"vBulletin Message
An error occurred while attempting to log you out. Click here to log out."

Funny.

[The Feral Underclass]

"vBulletin Message
An error occurred while attempting to log you out. Click here to log out."


You know what to do then.

[#FF0000]

You know what to do then.

haven't you been complaining about mods/admins not responding in the Unfair Infractions thread?

[Snard]

You know what to do then.

"Deal with it or get out."?

You sure sound like a leftist.

[The Feral Underclass]

haven't you been complaining about mods/admins not responding in the Unfair Infractions thread?

No.

[The Feral Underclass]

"Deal with it or get out."?

You sure sound like a leftist.

You want the admins to change their attitude and behaviour, right? They're not going to and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

You will just have to come to terms with that.

[#FF0000]

No.

Wait what (http://www.revleft.com/vb/unfair-infractions-thread-t125537/index26.html)


You want the admins to change their attitude and behaviour, right? They're not going to and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

You will just have to come to terms with that.

this might actually be true

[The Feral Underclass]

Oh (http://www.revleft.com/vb/unfair-infractions-thread-t125537/index26.html)

I'm confused at how you think that qualifies as a complaint? Do you understand what the word 'complaint' means?

[Snard]

You want the admins to change their attitude and behaviour, right? They're not going to and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

You will just have to come to terms with that.

Too fatalist for my taste.

[The Feral Underclass]

Too fatalist for my taste.

Well, good luck with that.

[#FF0000]

I'm confused at how you think that qualifies as a complaint? Do you understand what the word 'complaint' means?

noun
noun: complaint; plural noun: complaints
1.
a statement that a situation is unsatisfactory or unacceptable.

Those looks like complaints to me. but it's fine you can win the gold in this year's pedantry olympics if you want

[Snard]

Well, good luck with that.

What does that even mean? Good luck with what?

I don't understand why this thread has diverted from the original point. This is on a smaller scale, but if everyone just "dealt with" things then the world be even more of a shithole than it is now. You claim revolution and relief for the working class, but with your "deal with it" attitude you sound you wouldn't give a shit in the first place. It's sad that one claim doesn't correspond with your actual feelings on most things.

[The Feral Underclass]

noun
noun: complaint; plural noun: complaints
1.
a statement that a situation is unsatisfactory or unacceptable.

Those looks like complaints to me. but it's fine you can win the gold in this year's pedantry olympics if you want

Dude, a statement cannot be a question, can it? Can you show me where I have made a statement that a situation is unsatisfactory or unacceptable?

A statement that a situation was unsatisfactory would be: "It is unsatisfactory that the admins have not responded to me." That is a statement that a situation is unsatisfactory. Saying, "Admins: Two requests have been made to have warning points reviewed. Are you going to review them or not?" is not a statement of anything, let alone of being unsatisfied.

Are you finished?

[The Feral Underclass]

What does that even mean? Good luck with what?

Erm, not coming to terms with being unable to do anything about changing the admins behaviour...


I don't understand why this thread has diverted from the original point. This is on a smaller scale, but if everyone just "dealt with" things then the world be even more of a shithole than it is now. You claim revolution and relief for the working class, but with your "deal with it" attitude you sound you wouldn't give a shit in the first place. It's sad that one claim doesn't correspond with your actual feelings on most things.

Lol (http://www.sadtrombone.com/)

[Snard]

Dude, a statement cannot be a question, can it? Can you show me where I have made a statement that a situation is unsatisfactory or unacceptable?

A statement that a situation was unsatisfactory would be: "It is unsatisfactory that the admins have not responded to me." That is a statement that a situation is unsatisfactory. Saying, "Admins: Two requests have been made to have warning points reviewed. Are you going to review them or not?" is not a statement of anything, let alone of being unsatisfied.

What is the point of this?

[QUOTE=The Anarchist Tension;2693442]Are you finished?

I can't tell if you're talking to me or FF

[The Feral Underclass]

I was talking to #FF0000.

[#FF0000]

Are you finished?

yes tat i am wrong i am so sorry u win

http://helpmelose.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/goldstar.jpg

anyway lets wait for an admin response to this thread instead of shitting it up w/ TAT responses and giving them a reason to trash/ignore it (as if they need one haha)

[The Feral Underclass]

yes tat i am wrong i am so sorry u win

http://helpmelose.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/goldstar.jpg

You seriously have some issues.


anyway lets wait for an admin response to this thread instead of shitting it up w/ TAT responses and giving them a reason to trash/ignore it (as if they need one haha)

It's not permitted to make admin threads on the main board, so it can get trashed and ignored without my help.

[adipocere]

Too fatalist for my taste.
welcome to Revleft.

[Snard]

It's not permitted to make admin threads on the main board, so it can get trashed and ignored without my help.
- - - - - - - - - ^ = point

[Sasha]

anyway lets wait for an admin response to this thread instead of shitting it up w/ TAT responses and giving them a reason to trash/ignore it (as if they need one haha)


i already did, first reply of the thread.
and thats all that is coming, but as long as the local mod is willing to tolerate this thread i will keep it open as an experiment in "free speech", go ahead, proof us wrong, make an worthy contribution to the board out of this. :)

[The Feral Underclass]

Bring Back Commie Club!

[Snard]

i already did, first reply of the thread.
and thats all that is coming, but as long as the local mod is willing to tolerate this thread i will keep it open as an experiment in "free speech", go ahead, proof us wrong, make an worthy contribution to the board out of this. :)

Notice that you are quoting yourself when saying "free speech". Nobody except you used those words at all, so I don't know why you're saying it like it's some sort of mockery.

I for one plan on making this a worthy contribution.

Focus on the things that matter.

[#FF0000]

i already did, first reply of the thread.
and thats all that is coming, but as long as the local mod is willing to tolerate this thread i will keep it open as an experiment in "free speech", go ahead, proof us wrong, make an worthy contribution to the board out of this. :)

Except this is not at all about "free speech" and is entirely about admin accountability. I'm not saying we shouldn't ban or hand out infractions. I'm saying that the admins need to be accountable and that enforcement of the rules needs to be more consistent.


Bring Back Commie Club!

lol oh no

[Quail]

Pretty much the only warnings etc I give are for stuff like sexism or prejudiced language, and if you think those are "little things" that shouldn't warrant any attention, you're not my comrade.

[Snard]

Pretty much the only warnings etc I give are for stuff like sexism or prejudiced language, and if you think those are "little things" that shouldn't warrant any attention, you're not my comrade.

(here's a secret: I personally wasn't referring to you, but I can't speak for anyone else however I believe they think the same.)

[BIXX]

If there were an accountability process, I think the quality of the board could be better. We could get some people that really need to be banned out of here, and Thera that shouldn't have been will be able to stay. This will increase membership, discussion, etc... Overall I would say it's a good idea, for the boards sake.

[BIXX]

Pretty much the only warnings etc I give are for stuff like sexism or prejudiced language, and if you think those are "little things" that shouldn't warrant any attention, you're not my comrade.

Personally, as far as admins go, I think you make a useful contribution with the warnings you give out, as they always are to prevent sexist, ableist, queerphobic, and racist language.

But I still think an accountability process would be good.

[#FF0000]

I don't think this is entirely about banning fewer people or handing out fewer infractions, necessarily. We'd benefit a lot from handing out warnings, infractions, and making use of the suspension system when it comes to things like flaming and general all-around rudeness on the boards. Ban-happy admins/mods aren't the entire problem.

But whenever there's some contentious board-wide issue or an unpopular ruling from the admins, there's no outlet for the membership. Our only option is "deal with it", and that just isn't fair, because the membership is what makes the forum and we're left with no say whatsoever in it.

[Remus Bleys]

I'm not really to keen on this idea that a more democratic form of the ba would help the issue. The real issue I think is the vast majority of the ba are social democrats (and I am not even meaning stalinists, I mean literal social democrats) and they are intent on keeping power, so they act in a way that prevents people from trying to hurt their cred. That I think explains the whole "non sectaroian" bs of this board where mtw, open market socialists, open democratic socialists are able to post without restriction, but good posts get removed for bullshit, because they disrupt the social democratic nature of the ga. The problem isn't the ba isn't accountable, its that the ba is liberal. That is a fundamental flaw in the wya revleft is administered.
If I get infracted or warned or trashed it only proves my point, that on a thread that psycho said was "free speech" (whatever that means) they would still do that because I dare to call them liberal. So don't do it.

[The Feral Underclass]

^There is definitely an over-abundance of CWI members on the BA, but as someone who has been an admin, I can assure you none of the admins are playing some sectarian political power game. The BA is relatively diverse (though it could do with less Trots).

[Tim Cornelis]

Revleft proves socialism doesn't work.

[Sasha]

We have 2 trots, 1 autonomist, 1 revolutionary marxist, 2 anarchists and 1 Luxemburgist as admins, I would say only the Stalinists and leftcoms are unrepresented in the admin team (though they have a pretty strong presence in the mod team)

[The Feral Underclass]

There are three CWI members in the BA - Sentinel, Crux and CyM.

[Sasha]

Oh and CyM now, I don't even know what he identfies as..

[Remus Bleys]

Not just the cwi I mean. I mean the fact most of the ba don't seem to have politics at all. Sure there are a lot of good ba, but from what I've seen and from what I've talked to other members, they seem to be full of brehznevites, guevarists, and just in general left-liberals.
Although, I realize I could be wrong but from what I've seen that seems to be the sect that is active with their ba-ness.
Edit: when I sayy ba I also mean mods too (I just don't really know what to call it)

[Sasha]

Ninjad me... Though is crux really an trot? Yes he is an CWI member but let's be honest, we will make an anarchist from him yet ;-)

[The Feral Underclass]

Oh and CyM now, I don't even know what he identfies as..

I'm pretty sure he's a CWI Trot, but I could be wrong.

[Snard]

^There is definitely an over-abundance of CWI members on the BA, but as someone who has been an admin, I can assure you none of the admins are playing some sectarian political power game. The BA is relatively diverse (though it could do with less Trots).

Just because you were in that group doesn't mean you know the mental processes and reasoning behind things the other members do. People lie, people deceive, people pretend.

[The Feral Underclass]

Just because you were in that group doesn't mean you know the mental processes and reasoning behind things the other members do. People lie, people deceive, people pretend.

Yes it does.

[Snard]

Yes it does.

"People lie, people deceive, people pretend."

[Art Vandelay]

I'm pretty sure he's a CWI Trot, but I could be wrong.

He is not in the CWI but he's a Trot pretty sure. Crux and Sent are CWI, I think those are the only two BA members who are considered as regular members.

[hatzel]

I mean the fact most of the ba don't seem to have politics at all. Sure there are a lot of good ba, but from what I've seen and from what I've talked to other members, they seem to be full of brehznevites, guevarists, and just in general left-liberals.

I'm sure that still counts as politics...

[The Feral Underclass]

"People lie, people deceive, people pretend."

I am pretty confident that every single admin has far better things to be doing with their time than masterminding some online sectarian power struggle on an internet message board.

If we're going to call them anything, it's lazy.

[Remus Bleys]

I'm sure that still counts as politics...

When you only praise the eastern bloc, call cub a socialist, and make shit about left unity -and that's the only thing you do- your lacking in political theory, and lack politics. I did not mean apolitical, I meant they lacked consistent political thought.

[Quail]

I am pretty confident that every single admin has far better things to be doing with their time than masterminding some online sectarian power struggle on an internet message board.


Wait, there are better things to be doing than plotting to abuse my powers and take over revleft? :crying:

[Remus Bleys]

Quail if anything you should be more aggressive

[Snard]

If we're going to call them anything, it's lazy.

Then why are they admins?

[The Feral Underclass]

Then why are they admins?

Because the person who owns the board wants them to be.

[#FF0000]

Sure there are a lot of good ba, but from what I've seen and from what I've talked to other members, they seem to be full of brehznevites, guevarists, and just in general left-liberals

I would be shocked if you were able to name more than a couple of admins on the team, tbh.

Also I think it's weird you're telling admins to be more aggressive when you'd rack up a million infractions in an instant with how hostile you are in discussions.

[CyM]

For the record, I am not a member of the CWI, I am a member of the IMT.

[Remus Bleys]

Also I think it's weird you're telling admins to be more aggressive when you'd rack up a million infractions in an instant with how hostile you are in discussions.
As in intolerance for sexist and homophobic attitudes.

[Quail]

As in intolerance for sexist and homophobic attitudes.

Well, I don't "tolerate" sexist or homophobic attitudes. I generally give newer posters the benefit of assuming they're just ignorant and try to engage with them - because not everybody is going to come here with perfectly formed politics, and since the demographic here seems to consist of mostly young guys, I would guess many of them have never come across feminist ideas. I think it's important to at least try to engage them if you have the patience or else they will never learn. If they're not interested in learning, then of course they can be shown the door.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I have been seeing quite a bit of administrator censorship and abuse of "power" on this site - a site that is home to claims of advocating the opposite. When real issues are brought to the light, they are instantly pulled back into the dark if it is found to be "trolling" even though it really isn't. I won't name any names in this because I won't publicly be calling people out, but another user here had posted a very serious thread (about which I won't mention since I don't want this thread to get taken down for the same half-assed reasons) and it was immediately labelled "trolling" and closed.

Another related issue is ridiculously frequent infractions for minor things, if they can be considered "things" at all, if you get what I mean.

While not always a huge issue, I think it is disgusting that supposed leftists act like this towards their comrades. I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the vast majority of people on here advocate freedom and are against censorship. Especially of their comrades.

(If there is a better place for this thread, please put it there. I couldn't really choose one and thought that this was the best one that I could find.)
A series of abstract grievances without any sense of a proposed alternative is bound to go the way this thread has. People counterpose what we have now with 4Chan because there isn't an alternative on the table that could actually be measured and so the discussion don't become productive and ends up as: "This site is run by petty tyrants" vs "No, you want sexists to post here freely!".

There have been various arrangements on this site and they have all had pluses and minuses. Frankly when members were kicking people out, it was worse; even now when threads pop up, tons of regular members are always saying things like "why hasn't this person been banned yet!".

At any rate, this site isn't a commune or soviet, it's not an affinity group or micro-party that needs some level of agreement to take practical action: it's a private website. It's use goes as far as discussion can be facilitated. If people have ideas about how discussions can happen and be facilitated better (realistically - because the mods and admins are just volunteering their time and - for me anyway - I like posting and debating more than moderating) then folks should bring it up and it can be debated. I think you'd probably find that some people want the board to be looser and others think it's too loose - as comments in this thread suggest in fact.

My advice: debate and discuss politics, don't take the website that dramatically, it's the internet. This site is a LSD-soaked unicorn-fucking utpoia compared to the drama in most activist circles IRL.

[bcbm]

LSD-soaked unicorn-fucking utpoia

i think this should replace 'home of the revolutionary left' on the logo

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

The modding/admin of the website is far from perfect, but to be fair it's a lot better than trying to run this along 'democratic' lines.

It's a fucking web forum after all, and we are all busy people, and most mods and admins work really hard to support the board, and if they don't they generally don't last long.

The thing with revleft is that it tries to steer a course between being a welcoming environment for beginners who have little conceptual understanding of leftist political philosophies, history, strategies and 'real world experience' on the one hand, and providing a basis for more in-depth theoretical discussion and practical organising on the other. Arguably, it ends up satisfying neither pole fully, but it does provide at least some opportunity, however limited, for both.

If we're honest, it's the best of a bad situation, in that leftism around the world is not really catching on these days, so you wouldn't expect this to be a thriving message board currently.

[reb]

The modding/admin of the website is far from perfect, but to be fair it's a lot better than trying to run this along 'democratic' lines.

It's a fucking web forum after all, and we are all busy people, and most mods and admins work really hard to support the board, and if they don't they generally don't last long.

The thing with revleft is that it tries to steer a course between being a welcoming environment for beginners who have little conceptual understanding of leftist political philosophies, history, strategies and 'real world experience' on the one hand, and providing a basis for more in-depth theoretical discussion and practical organising on the other. Arguably, it ends up satisfying neither pole fully, but it does provide at least some opportunity, however limited, for both.

If we're honest, it's the best of a bad situation, in that leftism around the world is not really catching on these days, so you wouldn't expect this to be a thriving message board currently.

Then shouldn't we be focusing on quality over quantity then? If you can't manage a small board with broadly shitty politics then how do you expect this to work if there's ever a situation where you get a lot of people trying to find out more about things?

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

My advice: debate and discuss politics, don't take the website that dramatically, it's the internet. This site is a LSD-soaked unicorn-fucking utpoia compared to the drama in most activist circles IRL.

Before I go on, I just want to say that I always feel guilty when condense good posts like yours, all of what you said is good, it's just that this particular tid-bit I'd like to engage.

I think you made perhaps the most astute observation in this entire thread, this is an internet board. So all of this prattle about "security" that is used to justify the lack of transparency is bunk. If the fed, really, really cares about the BA discussions (hint they don't) then making them non-available to the general public isn't going to do a thing to prevent them from seeing it. So I don't see any valid reason why these discussions can't be open to public view.

And as someone above said (I think psycho), yes there is a diverse moderation staff, but if you a fair amount of the moderators/admin are inactive or at least not visible members of the community. That seems to be a bit of a problem, if the moderation staff isn't as active as lets say, your average regular then clearly they shouldn't be in the position they are in. Lastly, why are half the people banned over a year ago still banned? Why is Lucretia, rosa liechenstein, Welshy, ******* (seriously you censor that, that is just down right childish) , the Sparts, ect, still banned? Those probably aren't good examples to be honest, I'm not using them due to the merit of their individual cases but just because off the top of my head I can't remember much else. but I think you get my general point. I mean sure you can take offense to what they said at the time, but when you think about it there is little that merits being banned as long as they have been. I think that long term suspensions, a month, 6 months, maybe even a year, would suffice simply because I don't think half of the people that get banned deserve to be kicked out permanently since most of the bans are a result of a single or a collection of incidents rather than a long series of events. Why is marxleninstalinmao still restricted? Even the admin that restricted him later admitted that he didn't have restrictable positions, hell he literally has the same positions as one of the (semi) active moderators on here? Now that I think of it why are Maoists-Third Worldists restricted. What, there was a spat between marcel and MRN like 5 years ago and because of that an entire tendency is restricted? Sure the majority of them are asses, but we have anti-troll rules that'd keep the asses out. Right now there are two third-worldists in OI who are cool guys and would contribute to the intellectual atmosphere of the forum. And there is already a thread discussing Settlers, The Mythology of the White Proletariat, why not have the fellas who write that theory around? At least they are Communists unlike those Market Socialists that are given free reign or restricted depending on whimsy. Why the hell was Conkercorner (for those who are unfamiliar: http://www.revleft.com/vb/pleased-here-t184491/index.html ) banned? The guy had three posts, I know sometimes it slips through but for the sake of accountability you really need to get on top of that shit. Like seriously it's not acceptable to ban someone without offering an explanation. And if you are going to ban people for being alts you need to offer solid IP evidence for that, you can't just say that they post like someone who used to post 2 years ago and call it a day. Why was Martin Blank banned? The moderators and the CWI trots in that thread were flaming way harder than he was, if he got disciplined then so should they.

But really all of this goes back to what everyone else said, there is no reason why there is no accountability, literally none, so then let's have it.

actually, one more thing, all of this doesn't really matter because as Jimmy Higgens said, this is just an internet play pen. lighten up people

[Ele'ill]

CyM thanks all the posts about the unfair infraction thread but still hasn't responded in the unfair infraction thread

[The Feral Underclass]

CyM thanks all the posts about the unfair infraction thread but still hasn't responded in the unfair infraction thread

That would require him admitting he was wrong. You've more chance of your infraction magically evaporating.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

[Art Vandelay]

CyM thanks all the posts about the unfair infraction thread but still hasn't responded in the unfair infraction thread

I just went through the last two pages on the unfair infractions thread and didn't see CYM thank a single post, so unless he went out of his way to 'un-thank' all of those posts, I don't know what you are talking about.

[Ele'ill]

I just went through the last two pages on the unfair infractions thread and didn't see CYM thank a single post, so unless he went out of his way to 'un-thank' all of those posts, I don't know what you are talking about.

the unfair infractions thread being ignored or forgotten about was brought up earlier in this thread and a certain someone thanked the posts and then promptly went back to ignoring/forgetting the unfair infractions thread

[Art Vandelay]

the unfair infractions thread being ignored or forgotten about was brought up earlier in this thread and a certain someone thanked the posts and then promptly went back to ignoring/forgetting the unfair infractions thread

Oh you meant thanked posts in this thread (dealing with that issue), not thanking posts in the actual unfair infractions thread, without responding. My bad, I definitely misread your post; but yeah that's kinda lame, since I assumed that the reason no one had responded, was cause no one had seen those posts. Perhaps that was naive.

[CyM]

I have discussed Mari3l's infraction with him repeatedly. I work in a mall, and am currently working 7 days a week, so I do not have time to address his post yet about this subject yet again.

[Leftsolidarity]

i already did, first reply of the thread.
and thats all that is coming, but as long as the local mod is willing to tolerate this thread i will keep it open as an experiment in "free speech", go ahead, proof us wrong, make an worthy contribution to the board out of this. :)

I just saw this, wouldn't mind if it was closed earlier but thanks.

Screw free speech. This thread is pointless and doesn't have a place in this subforum.

Thread closed.

[#FF0000]

nah

[Quail]

Thread closed.

Not quite... Closed it now :)