guardian staff could face terrorism charges for edward snowden leaks

[bcbm]

http://gawker.com/guardian-staff-could-face-terrorism-charges-for-edward-1475820662

nineteen eighty-four seems so quaint compared to the real world we live in

[piet11111]

Well modern governments are less oppressive but far more intrusive with the aim of becoming more oppressive.

1984's society is coming if we like it or not.

I hate to admit it but the tinfoil hat brigade had it right.

[blake 3:17]

I hate to admit it but the tinfoil hat brigade had it right.

I've been worrying that I'm going that direction but -- yeah -- jeez -- WTF??

[The Feral Underclass]

I doubt it will happen.

[bricolage]

I don't think it will happen and I have to love for Rusbridger but it's crazy that he's getting dragged in front of a committee to be asked 'Do you love this country?'
Jeez, this world...

[bcbm]

Well modern governments are less oppressive but far more intrusive with the aim of becoming more oppressive.

1984's society is coming if we like it or not.


nah that is the beauty of our terrible dystopian world. we get all the intrusion with none of the fuss. why force the telescreen in every home when we're happy to all have a webcam and camera phone around us most of the time? why have kids snitch on their parents when a web browser will 'anonymously' do the same thing? huxley's 'brave new world' is more apt, but still less dark than reality, sadly

[cyu]

British politicians could face treason charges for selling government to capitalists.

[piet11111]

nah that is the beauty of our terrible dystopian world. we get all the intrusion with none of the fuss. why force the telescreen in every home when we're happy to all have a webcam and camera phone around us most of the time? why have kids snitch on their parents when a web browser will 'anonymously' do the same thing? huxley's 'brave new world' is more apt, but still less dark than reality, sadly

Thats what i meant with the "far more intrusive" bit but the oppression bit is still not as bad.

Going on strike is still not banned nor is protesting and they also haven't been stripping people of their voting rights.

But we all know they are looking to do those things.

[Comrade #138672]

British politicians could face treason charges for selling government to capitalists.Governments do not have to be sold to capitalists. ;)

[bcbm]

Thats what i meant with the "far more intrusive" bit but the oppression bit is still not as bad.

Going on strike is still not banned nor is protesting and they also haven't been stripping people of their voting rights.

But we all know they are looking to do those things.

they dont need to take them away, they have all been quite effectively neutered of any threatening content

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

It seems like posturing, the government wants the guardian to regulate itself in this instance. Its better to make open ended threats than engage in activity that might upset the public in a way that seems relevant to what the leaks disclosed.

[piet11111]

they dont need to take them away, they have all been quite effectively neutered of any threatening content

Very true but what matters is the change between pretend the workers have rights and taking them away and forcibly reminding the workers they do not have any.

This whole system so far has been able to play pretend and as such keep things "civil" that is the whole purpose of the unions and the nominally left these days.

But even what little scraps have been thrown our way have become too much of a "burden" on the super rich and will be done away with at the first opportunity.

This is why they are erecting all the things a police state needs to function and as the snowden revelations show they are already in a very advanced state.

[Hexen]

1984's society is coming if we like it or not.

I hate to admit it but the tinfoil hat brigade had it right.

It is because your joining tin foil hat brigade.


I don't think it will happen and I have to love for Rusbridger but it's crazy that he's getting dragged in front of a committee to be asked 'Do you love this country?'
Jeez, this world...

Well if you read the article, it is because he tried to publish information that could put staff (such as spies, etc) at risk but yet due to everyone's mistrust at 'the government' there's this "there is information that we the people need to and the right to know that they're holding back from us" mentality going around while completely missing the point on why they keep information classified for a reason and it has nothing to do with "there's something sinister going on" which harks back to conspriacist paranoia. To clarify, it's the same reason why they kept Area 51 classified because they were building U2 spy planes and they don't want their enemies to know where they're at. In short, Classified Information is just a strategy/tactic so enemies would not know what you are doing and has nothing to do with "holding information from the general public".

Also I doubt Rushbringer is going to brought into a "Room 101" scenario like you proposed which is also conspiracist paranoia as well.


Governments do not have to be sold to capitalists. ;)

Because the Government is just a shadow of the bourgeois, nothing more if one knows how capitalism works and how it operates.


nah that is the beauty of our terrible dystopian world. we get all the intrusion with none of the fuss. why force the telescreen in every home when we're happy to all have a webcam and camera phone around us most of the time? why have kids snitch on their parents when a web browser will 'anonymously' do the same thing? huxley's 'brave new world' is more apt, but still less dark than reality, sadly

Contrary to conspiracist paranoia, the existence of that technology (web cams/camera phones, web browsers) does not mean we are "heading towards" those fictional societies especially when they're often now taken out of context during the time when they were written.

[bcbm]

yet due to everyone's mistrust at 'the government' there's this "there is information that we the people need to and the right to know that they're holding back from us" mentality going around while completely missing the point on why they keep information classified for a reason and it has nothing to do with "there's something sinister going on" which harks back to conspriacist paranoia.

actually classifying information has been a tactic used precisely to hide the fact that 'something sinister is going on' for decades with a rapid increase of such in recent years. in the us subsequent administrations have made ever greater use of their power to keep information from the general public


Contrary to conspiracist paranoia, the existence of that technology (web cams/camera phones, web browsers) does not mean we are "heading towards" those fictional societies especially when they're often now taken out of context during the time when they were written.[/QUOTE]

why did you put 'heading towards' in quotation marks when i never said anything of the sort and, indeed, have been saying that our world is in fact a different sort of dystopia.

[piet11111]

Between the open criminality of the financial elite the ever increasing austerity forced on the population and the massive efforts into creating a legal and technological framework for a massive surveillance state.

Where do you see room for optimism ?


If the governments want to figure out who is a socialist/communist/anarchist they just need to look through their massive database to compile a list.

One example of such a list being used was during the argentine dictatorship where thousands of leftists ended up killed.

Currently the governments of the west have no intention of doing such a thing but they do have the means to take such an action now and far more extensively then the argentine dictatorship was able to.
We already know that in a country like Greece the austerity forces have gone about as far as they can under a democratic form of rule if they desire to go further they would have to do so under a non-democratic state.
And from there who could tell what could happen ?

[Hexen]

actually classifying information has been a tactic used precisely to hide the fact that 'something sinister is going on' for decades with a rapid increase of such in recent years. in the us subsequent administrations have made ever greater use of their power to keep information from the general public

See this is exactly what I mean about conspiracist paranoia here and I think you miss the point that classified information has less to do with "keeping information from the general public" and more to do with "not letting our enemies (which during the Cold War it was the Soviet Union) finding out what we're doing"....unless you also mean the proletariat who also counts as enemies then you might be onto something but I can't see any reason why they would bother worrying about it though seeing it as irrelevant possibly.

[bcbm]

See this is exactly what I mean about conspiracist paranoia here and I think you miss the point that classified information has less to do with "keeping information from the general public" and more to do with "not letting our enemies (which during the Cold War it was the Soviet Union) finding out what we're doing"....unless you also mean the proletariat who also counts as enemies then you might be onto something but I can't see any reason why they would bother worrying about it though seeing it as irrelevant possibly.

yes i read your previous post, but thanks for repeating it for me, however i don't think this is 'conspiracist paranoia' given that i have always been critical of conspiracy theories here and i think you miss the point that there has been a trend towards increased secrecy within the government, much of which concerns 'keeping information from the general public' that could embarrass or otherwise harm the state. though i guess you could say most modern states view 'the general public' as an enemy, or rather a collection of potential enemies which is why so much modern policing resembles counter-insurgency.