Haiti - Climate for revolution?

[Red Flag]

Have many of you been paying to attention to the recent events in Haiti? What do you think the outcome will be..

5 Killed in protests today, police are finally starting to protect protesters

http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americas/01/...reut/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americas/01/18/haiti.protest.reut/index.html)

[Danton]

Should/can Cuba intervene? Or will the Yanqui's "restore the constitution" again..
If anywhere is ripe it's Haiti...

[Felicia]

Yeah, I've been posting things in newswire about what's been happening.

Revolution is ripe, all they need is a leader, someone to take Aristide's place, and it could happen.

[RebeldePorLaPAZ]

I agree with felicia.

There is a lot in the news and i think it would be a good idea to keep watching to see whats happens next.

I found this picture on univision.com about the whole hati thing.

http://u.univision.com/contentroot/uol/art/images/noticias/lat/2004/01/040119af_haiti_protesta3.jpg

:(

[Felicia]

that picture only depicts the importance of revolution, of a positive change for the Haitian people.

They've done it before, I have faith that they may very well do it again!!!!!!!

[Bolschewik]

LOL!

Haiti is "ripe" for the same kind of "revolution" that the right-wing anti-Chavez oligarchs are trying to acheive in Venezuela. Aristide is a hero of the Haitian people, he was ousted over ten years ago by the yanks only to come back to power on popular demand. The yanks HATE Aristide and everything he stands for. Aristide is a leftist/bolivarian leader who needs to stop the angry (US-backed) mob trying to get him out of power.

Good / People's anti-government movements:
- Bolivia
- Colombia
- Iraq
- Nepal

Bad / Oligarchical anti-government movements:
- Haiti
- Venezuela
- Cuba
- Georgia
- Belarus

All of you should really do some research before supporting the anti-government movements in these nations. Here's a good start, a chapter from Killing Hope: http://members.aol.com/bblum6/haiti2.htm

Viva Aristide

[Edelweiss]

good - bad -- the world is truely simple for you, isn't it? :D

[Bolschewik]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2004, 04:37 PM
good - bad -- the world is truely simple for you, isn't it? :D
It's called having a political ideology. My world view says US foreign intervention is bad, if that is being too simplistic, that is fine. That isn't the point. The point is that there is no socialist opposition to Aristide because socialists in Haiti support him. The point is that the opposition to Aristide is not what CNN tries to make them out to be.

[Felicia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2004, 01:11 PM
LOL!

Haiti is "ripe" for the same kind of "revolution" that the right-wing anti-Chavez oligarchs are trying to acheive in Venezuela. Aristide is a hero of the Haitian people, he was ousted over ten years ago by the yanks only to come back to power on popular demand. The yanks HATE Aristide and everything he stands for. Aristide is a leftist/bolivarian leader who needs to stop the angry (US-backed) mob trying to get him out of power.


ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

Aristide WAS a hero for the Haitian people, the the early 90's they thought he was the answer but he's done nothing beneficial for the average Haitian, his promises have fallen through. There are many peasant movements that have been struggling for workers rights before aristide and there will be some after.

Aristide has failed his people.

Ti pa rale kaka mwen, bounda tou!! (that's "don't you pull shit on me, asshole" in Haitian Creole. My Creole is bad, yes)

[Edelweiss]

Originally posted by Bolschewik+Jan 20 2004, 06:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Bolschewik @ Jan 20 2004, 06:40 PM)
[email protected] 20 2004, 04:37 PM
good - bad -- the world is truely simple for you, isn&#39;t it? :D
It&#39;s called having a political ideology. My world view says US foreign intervention is bad, if that is being too simplistic, that is fine. That isn&#39;t the point. The point is that there is no socialist opposition to Aristide because socialists in Haiti support him. The point is that the opposition to Aristide is not what CNN tries to make them out to be. [/b]
You are living in a total political black and white world than. Take the resistance in Iraq for example, don&#39;t get me wrong, they have all right to resist their invaders, BUT the resistance is full of reactionary forces which are not really promising any proggresive developements in Iraq. Ergo: the resistance isn&#39;t just "good", be critical towards everything, don&#39;t cheer blindly to the enemy of your enemy.

[Edelweiss]

Haiti is the poorest country in the whole western hemisphere if I may add...

[Felicia]

go ahead, add, it&#39;s the truth. Aristide hasn&#39;t helped them much and how they realize that, maybe a more socialistic change is in the cards....

[Red Flag]

Right, I think socialist were supporting what he said he would do.. but now thats its obvious he will never do such things he has lost most if not all support.

[Felicia]

yeah, but I&#39;m not sure about the political leanings or the new revolt. Honestly, I think it&#39;s a matter of angry Haitians who have been stomped on and fucked over for hundreds of years, not the left or right. Peasant movements are, of course, on the left :)

[Bolschewik]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=stor...6yv7bhhl_photo1 (http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/040102/photos_wl_afp/040102062840_6yv7bhhl_photo1)

"All Haitians hate Aristide".

Yes, these utterly simple-minded and always WRONG conclusions drawn up by the Commercial Media are regenerated by the so-called Leftists on this site. If internalized as the powers want, you so called leftists would believe that all Venezuelans hate Chavez, that all Russians hate the USSR, that all Cubans hate Fidel. I haven&#39;t seen a single instance in this thread of anyone of you trying to understand the conflict in a more objective manner that considers the positions of both sides in this conflict.



ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

Aristide WAS a hero for the Haitian people, the the early 90&#39;s they thought he was the answer but he&#39;s done nothing beneficial for the average Haitian, his promises have fallen through. There are many peasant movements that have been struggling for workers rights before aristide and there will be some after.

Aristide has failed his people.

Where&#39;s the analysis on this. There isn&#39;t any because what you write cannot be possible. If you know Haiti so much, why don&#39;t you tell me what Aristide had done that "failed his people"? I offered an objective analysis in my first post in this thread to what happened in Haiti with regard to US intervention trying to oust Aristide. Read that article. What peasant movements are against him? What leftist organizations have backed this opposition insurgency in Haiti? As soon as Aristide leaves, US corproations will take his place.



You are living in a total political black and white world than.
LOL&#33; It is me who is living in a black and white world? Every single post in here does nothing aside from puppeting the US government positions and those of the commercial media. There is a consensus that is not built on any sort of formal analysis that says protests against aristide = aristide is bad for the haitian people. I am the only one here who is NOT living in a "black and white world", - I don&#39;t blindly support Aristide, I am only advising that everyone should take into account the side in the conflict that is never represented in the US media.



Take the resistance in Iraq for example, don&#39;t get me wrong, they have all right to resist their invaders, BUT the resistance is full of reactionary forces which are not really promising any proggresive developements in Iraq. Ergo: the resistance isn&#39;t just "good", be critical towards everything, don&#39;t cheer blindly to the enemy of your enemy.
The Resistance in Iraq is made up by many different factions with different goals. The only single goal the resistance has in common is the liberation of Iraq from the imperialists, and that common goal is a good goal and one that will give my support to the resistors instead of the occupiers. The resistance in Haiti is led by the business community, by the better off sects of the population. Aristide has no support with the rich, only the poor.



Right, I think socialist were supporting what he said he would do.. but now thats its obvious he will never do such things he has lost most if not all support.

maybe a more socialistic change is in the cards....

Good luck. This COMPLETELY proves my whole point that I&#39;ve been stressing in this thread: you guys don&#39;t do your homework. There is no socialist opposition that wants to take power away from Aristide. The opposition movement is fully supported by all members of the rich minority Haitian elite. When Aristide goes, the regime that will follow will be a typical Latin American reactionary neoliberal pro-US government on the lines of Pedro Carmona and Augusto Pinochet.

[Felicia]

Where&#39;s the analysis on this. There isn&#39;t any because what you write cannot be possible. If you know Haiti so much, why don&#39;t you tell me what Aristide had done that "failed his people"? I offered an objective analysis in my first post in this thread to what happened in Haiti with regard to US intervention trying to oust Aristide. Read that article. What peasant movements are against him? What leftist organizations have backed this opposition insurgency in Haiti? As soon as Aristide leaves, US corproations will take his place.


The only movement that I can think of is in Creole, but I tihnk the english is the "little peasant&#39;s movement" it was working before Aristide. Crap, I don&#39;t have my books here (I&#39;ve recently moved and I didn&#39;t bring my books on Haiti) But form what I understand, Aristide has promised to reduce poverty pver and over again. He&#39;s made that promise again recently in his last election (2000) and now I guess he&#39;s tying to sue the rench for money, and the US is supporting and helping them. The Duvalier regimes screwed Haitians over a lot, but they need quicker results. Yeah, Aristide was freely elected (and the last thought to be fraudulent) and yes, people support him, but people support Bush aswell. I just don&#39;t see that Aristide has come through for Haitians. I wish he could, he seems decent enough, but the poor in the streets of Port-au-Prince wouldn&#39;t be protesting is they had no reason to.

I know Aristide is a "radical leftist" in his politics, and I hope to god he can gain more confidence from the Haitian population. I&#39;m not against him personally, he just need to get to work, he has a lot to clean up after the Duvaliers and it&#39;s been 14 years and I don&#39;t see sufficient change.

[Edelweiss]

Yes, these utterly simple-minded and always WRONG conclusions drawn up by the Commercial Media are regenerated by the so-called Leftists on this site.

again, you prove my point of your black-white world, your logic seems to be Dubya&#39;s "either you are with us, or you are against us".
I haven&#39;t said anything about Haiti in this thread BTW, I just have rightfully critisized your unbalanced good-evil Star Wars political thinking.

[Edelweiss]

Alright, Bolshevik, it took me a few minutes of research (http://www.jungewelt.de/2003/10-11/009.php) in the archive of a far Left, non-bourgois German newspaper to find out what the real situtation in Haiti is. You are the in fact uninformed one.
There are, as felicia already pointed out, no significant improvements for the Haitian people since the beginning of the 90s in Haiti. The country is paralyzed, there have been no serious democratisation attempts, the NGO »Transparency International« has rated Haiti among the three most corrupt countries of the world. The oppsition is not only a tool of the national bougoisie and the US as you claim, it&#39;s a broad coalition of former Aristide supporters, the church, leftist groups, practically the whole civil society is involved in the protests against Aristide. The majority of the people is against Aristide.
Next time you write something here, do your homework before you call us "so-called Leftists", you muppet.

[Felicia]

Thankyou Malte.

[LuZhiming]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2004, 04:57 PM
Haiti is the poorest country in the whole western hemisphere if I may add...
I am not trying to defend Aristide, but he is the last person to blame for that. Similarly to Guatemala, Nicaragua, and Honduras (Who are also extremely poor.) the U.S. backed dictators are responsible for devastating the country.

Although the William Blum link was excellent, I recommend this one as well: http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Caribbea...Plan_Haiti.html (http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Caribbean/UpAgainstDeathPlan_Haiti.html)