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Popular Front of Judea
28th November 2013, 02:45
The phrase of the day in the 'econoblogshere' is 'secular stagnation'. Paul Krugman et al are talking it up. This is in a nutshell the hypothesis that the developed world is looking at a future of slow economic growth similar to what Japan has faced for going on two decades. Waiting for a robust economy is the equivalent to putting out landing lights for Emilia Earhart. Obviously this will have an impact on politics etc.

Here is the Financial Times Martin Wolf on the subject:


Lawrence Summers [yes that Larry Summers] has poured gallons of icy water on any remaining optimists. Speaking on a panel at the International Monetary Fund’s annual research conference, the former US Treasury secretary suggested that there could be no easy return to pre-crisis normality in high-income economies. Instead, he sketched out a disturbing future of chronically weak demand and slow economic growth. Mr Summers is not the first to identify the possibility of so-called “secular stagnation”: the fear of emulating Japan’s lost decade has been in the minds of thoughtful analysts since the crisis. But his was a bravura performance.

Why might one believe him? It is possible to point to three relevant features of the western economies.

First, the recovery from the financial crisis of 2007-08 has been decidedly weak. In the third quarter, the US economy was just 5.5 per cent bigger than at its pre-crisis peak, more than five years earlier. US real gross domestic product has continued to decline, relative to the pre-crisis trend.

Moreover, such weakness has endured, despite ultra-expansionary monetary policies.

Second, today’s crisis-hit economies experienced rapid rises in leverage, particularly in the financial and household sectors, together with strong jumps in house prices, before the crisis. This was a “bubble economy”. Many governments, notably in the US and UK, also adopted expansionary fiscal policies. Nevertheless, none of the obvious symptoms of excess – particularly above-trend economic growth or inflation – appeared in Britain or America before the crisis hit.

Third, long-term real interest rates remained remarkably low in the years before the crisis, despite strong global economic growth. The yield on UK long-term index-linked gilts fell from close to 4 per cent to about 2 per cent after the Asian financial crisis and then to negative levels after the financial crisis. US Treasury inflation-protected securities (TIPS) followed a similar course, albeit later.

Merely restoring a degree of health to the financial system or reducing the overhang of excessive pre-crisis debt is, then, unlikely to deliver a full recovery. The reason is that the crisis followed financial excesses, which themselves masked or, as I have argued, were even a response to pre-existing structural weaknesses.

One of those weaknesses is the “global savings glut”, which can also be labelled an “investment dearth”. Low real interest rates are evidence of such a glut: there were more savings searching for productive investments than there were productive investments to employ it.

Another indication of the savings glut was the “global imbalances” – the huge current account surpluses (net capital exports) of east Asian emerging economies (particularly China), oil exporters, and several high-income economies (notably Germany). These economies became net suppliers of savings to the rest of the world. This was true before the crisis and it remains true today.

Before the financial crisis, the US absorbed much of the global excess savings, but not in productive investments. Despite easy access to cheap credit, fixed investment declined as a share of GDP after 2000. One reason for this fall was that the relative prices of investment goods declined: the share of real investment remained stable, while that of nominal investment shrank. Except in the pre-2000 stock market bubble, business also financed its investment out of its own savings: it did not need finance from elsewhere.

Thus, the counterpart of savings imported into the US was household and government borrowing. A rise in inequality of incomes made relying on household net borrowing yet more difficult. Other things being equal, this should raise household savings: the richest, who tend to earn more than they spend, tend to save even more as they become richer. A (temporary) solution to this problem was to entice poorer people to borrow more than they could afford so they could keep spending. This blew up in the crisis of 2007-08.

In brief, the world economy has been generating more savings than businesses wish to use, even at very low interest rates. This is true not just in the US, but also in most significant high-income economies.

The glut of savings, then, has become a constraint on current demand. But since it is connected to weak investment, it also implies slow growth of prospective supply. This difficulty predates the crisis. But the crisis has made it even worse.

So what is to be done? One response to an excess of desired savings over investment would be even more negative real rates of interest. That is why some economists have argued for higher inflation. But that would be hard to achieve, even if it were politically acceptable. Another possibility, stressed by Andrew Smithers in The Road to Recovery, is to tackle obstacles to corporate investment head-on. His biggest villain is the “bonus culture”, which encourages management to manipulate stock prices, via buybacks, rather than raise productive investment.

Yet another possibility, discussed by Mr Summers and supported by many economists (including myself), is to use today’s glut of savings to finance a surge in public investment. That might be partly linked to a shift to lower-carbon growth. Another possibility is to facilitate capital flows to emerging and developing countries, where the best investment opportunities must lie. It makes no sense for so much of the world’s savings to seek investment opportunities where they do not apparently exist and shy away from places where, one hopes, they do.

The underlying argument that more has happened to high-income economies than just a financial crisis is persuasive. It is also hard to believe that a surge in business investment in these countries would manage to absorb the excess desired savings of the world. Why, after all, should one expect any such thing to happen in countries with ageing populations, high wages and sluggish economies? But these countries do then confront a challenge far bigger than the damage done by the crisis alone, big though that is. They may face a far longer-term future of weak demand and enfeebled supply.

The best response, then, is measures aimed at raising productive private and public investment. Yes, mistakes will be made. But it will be better to risk mistakes than accept the costs of an impoverished future.

Why the future looks sluggish Financial Times 19 November 2013

Lenina Rosenweg
28th November 2013, 03:19
The IMT talks about this...

http://www.marxist.com/the-permanent-slump-an-organic-crisis-of-capitalism.htm


It has often been noted that the serious bourgeois analysts frequently arrive at the same conclusion as the Marxists, albeit with a slight delay. Nowhere has this aphorism been more aptly demonstrated than in a recent article by Paul Krugman, the Nobel prize-winning economist, entitled “A Permanent Slump”.

RedMaterialist
28th November 2013, 04:54
What further proof is there that the bourgeoisie is no longer capable of running its own economy?

" And here it becomes evident, that the bourgeoisie is unfit any longer to be the ruling class in society, and to impose its conditions of existence upon society as an over-riding law. It is unfit to rule because it is incompetent to assure an existence to its slave within his slavery, because it cannot help letting him sink into such a state, that it has to feed him, instead of being fed by him. Society can no longer live under this bourgeoisie, in other words, its existence is no longer compatible with society."

Manifesto, Ch. One

Popular Front of Judea
28th November 2013, 05:10
The IMT talks about this...

http://www.marxist.com/the-permanent-slump-an-organic-crisis-of-capitalism.htm

Given the state of the contemporary left I would put my money on capitalism being able to try some very unorthodox methods to exit the crisis. Methods that will violate one or more ideological pillars of capitalism. Won't it be funny if the last ones embracing fiscal responsibility are the Marxists?

Google 'modern monetary theory' if you want to see where capitalism is likely to go.

blake 3:17
28th November 2013, 06:30
Have any of these guys talked about the ecological limits of growth in any serious way?

Sasha
28th November 2013, 12:07
Given the state of the contemporary left I would put my money on capitalism being able to try some very unorthodox methods to exit the crisis. Methods that will violate one or more ideological pillars of capitalism. Won't it be funny if the last ones embracing fiscal responsibility are the Marxists?

Google 'modern monetary theory' if you want to see where capitalism is likely to go.

Yeah, there are already hardcore conservative thinktanks in the US that are lobbying for raising the minimum wage etc.
It all comes back to the apocryphal story of the ford CEO giving an union boss a tour through a new automatic assembly line and asking the union guy smugly "so how are you gonna make these robots join your union?" To which the union guy answers "how are you gonna sell them your cars?"
Capitalist might be often shortterm opportunists but the major ones arent stupid, they know they are at the point where they are eating themselves. Surely some companies will be going towards decent wages and good education kicking and screaming but expect some major ones to overtake our governments in establishing "progressive" labor rules pretty soon.

cyu
29th November 2013, 05:46
One of the things that has been propping up capitalist power around the world is the strength of the US military. I can't think of a more forceful tool for capitalism being used in the last half century or so.

This military dominance doesn't come without costs. Anti-American "terrorism" being one of them... and general Anti-Americanism around the world for your average person who dislikes US foreign policy. However, in the past, there was no general sense that anything could be done about it. The US has a powerful military, and that was that. Either you listen to the bully on the block, or you get your face shoved into the sidewalk.

I think that is changing however - I'd say it is dawning on various "Third World haters" of American foreign policy that part of what supports the American military is the US dollar. In the coming years, I suspect there will be a movement to fight the American military not on the battlefield, but through economics. By starving the US dollar of its value, the US will not be able to sustain its military force - and its status as the neighborhood bully will disappear into weakness.

Considering the amount of support that Europe gives to the US (through NATO and other channels), the European economies will probably be targeted as well. Unfortunately for Americans and Europeans that have no control over what their foreign policy makers do, moves to destroy their currency will hurt the average person living in Europe and the US - unless they too abandon capitalist economics and abandon indirectly propping up the capitalist system.

Much like the plantation owner / slave relationship, the strength of an imperialist economy depends on the willingness of colonial territories to play ball. Once the slaves stop listening, all that re-arranging of deck chairs will not stop the Titanic from sinking - the economy would have to be converted to a non-imperialist one if it hopes to survive.

La Comédie Noire
30th November 2013, 10:09
The interesting thing to see is that the tea party and the right wing economists have won political capital off the crisis, but it doesn't seem like anybody in an actual position of power is willing to try their methods. It seems they'd rather let the economy stagnate than let it under go any form of creative destruction.

robbo203
30th November 2013, 13:11
They have been trotting out this same old line of argument for nigh on two centuries - that capitalism's in-built trade cyle has been superceded and we are sliding into a state of permanent recession and stagnation. Engels argued thus in the late 19th century and he was proved wrong. The assorted doomsayers in the 1930s similarly said that of the Great Depression and they too were proved wrong. And the current crop of Jeremiahs in the press predicting economic gloom for as far as the eye can see will similarly be proved wrong.


Whether in its recession phase or its boom phase, capitalism is no bed of roses for the working class. The unspoken and objectionable assumption behind all these doomladen prognostications is that capitalism might just be worth hanging onto and keeping intact if it can guarantee full employment and steady dose of wage slavery. The pipe dream of every reformist. No , capitalism cannot guarantee anything - including a permanent recession!

The bankrupt and mechanistic Leftist credo that things must get worse before they get better and that revolution is the child of economic despair, flies in the face of the facts. If anything the opposite is more true. Recessions tend to push workers towards more conservative modes of thinking , less williingness to rock the boat for fear of the resulting repercussions personally, an increased inclination to scapegoat other workers for your economic problems and a greater tolerance of gross economic inequalities

This last point is interesting given that economic inequalities have increased dramatically in recent years . According to research carried out by Peter Inns and Nathan Kelly of the University of Tennessee, as inequality rises, so low income individuals' attitudes toward redistribution tends to become, if anything more, rather than less, conservative. Conversely, as income inequalities decline so low income individuals tend to adopt a more "liberal" attitude ("Inequality and the Dynamics of Public Opinion: The Self-Reinforcing Link Between Economic Inequality and Mass Preferences", Nathan J. Kelly, Peter K. Enns American Journal of Political Science October 2010)

Of course there are exceptions that prove the rule as far as recessions go. As far as recessions go however we have that outstanding example - and salutory warning - of the rise of Hitler and the Nazis in the wake of the collapse of the Weimar republic and its vain attempts to grapple with the Great Depression. It was not a communist revolution that crystallised out of such mass misery but a capitalist abomination


There are no grounds for pinning our hopes for revolution on the mere fact of a recession
nor on a recession leading to capitalism's collapse. One of the most useful sources of information in that regard is and still remains the 1932 pamphlet published by the SPGB
Why Capitalism will not Collapse

http://www.worldsocialism.org/spgb/pamphlets/why-capitalism-will-not-collapse

ckaihatsu
8th December 2013, 18:58
Breakingviews - Cheap money ain't the cure

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-KYG0e1qDs


Breakingviews - Just when will Japan's bondholders jump ship

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhWq1Irl0p8


Also, my understanding is that China has stopped the increase in its purchases of U.S. Treasury debt -- something I recall. Kudos to anyone who can confirm or clarify this.

adipocere
8th December 2013, 19:52
Capitalism is already morphing into something like corporate feudalism in the US. Talking about it as though it is only cyclical - recession and boom - ignores the tremendous legal ground that corporations have gobbled up in virtually every sphere and broken new ground in areas that were formerly sacred cows of the state ie. private property & military.

Law enforcment is already becoming privatized, it will certainly become more expansive and empowered and converted into mercenary forces, and the non-compliant and poor increasingly herded into for-profit prison labor schemes. The conglomerate real-estate market is making astonishing progress, just in the last few years, hoovering up rental properties - spurred on by the fed.

Something as cohesive as national socialism would never happen in the US - this country is too atomized and competitive. Capitalism has been nothing more than an elaborate system of importing, rebranding (CEO) and intrenching aristocracy and royalty in the US because Europe never bothered to completely remove the old ones from power.

Logical seal
8th December 2013, 20:07
Ghuuu, Math, My brain hurts :confused:

Die Neue Zeit
9th December 2013, 00:06
I had an admittedly economistic post over a year ago on this "secular stagnation": when combined with increasingly authoritarian bourgeois states, doesn't there come a point where even advocacy of a "Brezhnevite revolution" is a better alternative?

Public ownership? Check.
Guaranteed job? Check, but a fully socialized labour market underpinned by Minsky's Employer of Last Resort is a more contemporary update.
Social safety net? Check, but the left should minimize the subsidizing of consumer products.
Authoritarianism? Sure, but the "surveillance society" of the USSR was nowhere near as pervasive, and the GDR was an anomaly across Eastern Europe. As long as no hooligans yelled against the government in the streets, reservations about the government could be made at home or through telecommunication.

Non-economistically:

Civic participation? Spoiled ballots were permitted, and participation in local councils and in people's control commissions was encouraged.

Remus Bleys
9th December 2013, 00:14
I had an admittedly economistic post over a year ago on this "secular stagnation": when combined with increasingly authoritarian bourgeois states, doesn't there come a point where even advocacy of a "Brezhnevite revolution" is a better alternative?

Public ownership? Check.
Guaranteed job? Check, but a fully socialized labour market underpinned by Minsky's Employer of Last Resort is a more contemporary update.
Social safety net? Check, but the left should minimize the subsidizing of consumer products.
Authoritarianism? The GDR was an anomaly across Eastern Europe, but the "surveillance society" of the USSR was nowhere near as pervasive, and as long as no hooligans yelled against the government in the streets, reservations about the government could be made at home or through telecommunication.

Non-economistically:

Civic participation? Spoiled ballots were permitted, and participation in local councils and in people's control commissions was encouraged.
Are you offering stagnated capitalism as an alternative to stagnated capitalism?

Die Neue Zeit
9th December 2013, 00:16
Correction: Stagnated generalized commodity production with no capitalist form, as an alternative to stagnated generalized commodity production with a capitalist form.

ckaihatsu
9th December 2013, 17:35
Ghuuu, Math, My brain hurts :confused:


No numbers needed -- I'll be glad to give you my own personal interpretation....

Recall that the ownership class has two economic factions -- those who benefit from accumulated assets (rentiers)(collecting rents, interest), and those who benefit from capital gains (shareholders)(collecting dividends).

What's happening now is that, since the world's economy has been in a recession -- the worst downturn since the Great Depression -- interest rates have been kept near *zero*. This is done by The Fed making funds available to the markets, which lowers the risk of participation.

So the idea is to keep things flowing, not stagnating, by essentially *guaranteeing* capital gains for shareholders (from less-costly, subsidized U.S. Treasury debt) -- note the bubbles in housing and the stock market from this 'quantitative easing'.

However, this is no good for those who have *accumulated assets* -- it's from them that we hear all the cries and moaning about a lack of good investment opportunities, and their flight into gold, Bitcoins, art, etc. Why? Because the aforementioned Fed adding funds into the overall money supply just makes money worth *less*, per dollar, because now there's more *of them*.

The whole idea is to keep things flowing until the economy can pick back up on its own, with added jobs, real growth (GDP), and so on. The latest news is that the jobs picture is supposedly the best it's been since the '08 crash, so there's now a note of optimism around, but I also heard a tone of muted frustration from those with wealth who have been having to sit on their assets (heh) for some time now.

argeiphontes
9th December 2013, 19:15
It looks like the situation could be far worse. I was going to post a thread about it once I'd gathered some thoughts, but it looks like the limitations of bourgeois economics are being revealed. Check out these gems:

Larry Summers admits the zero lower bound. (http://www.slate.com/blogs/business_insider/2013/11/18/larry_summers_speech_the_fed_s_biggest_problem_is_ the_zero_lower_bound.html)

The US might need permanent bubbles to grow. (http://www.businessinsider.com/do-we-need-bubbles-for-strong-economic-growth-2013-11?utm_source=slate&utm_medium=referral&utm_term=partner)

This Krugman blog post, and especially the PDF it links to (http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/12/07/gordon-versus-the-androids/?_r=0) suggests a different character to the computer revolution. The difference, IMO, is labor. All previous industrial revolutions either mobilized the peasantry and yeoman farming classes, or relied on some other source of labor to work relatively labor-intensive machinery. (The automobile-related labor force in Detroit used to be on the order of 200,000 whereas now it's 20,000 for example.)

On the other hand, Krugman seems to think that the revolution was not revolutionary enough, and that labor-saving androids could have made the current revolution equal to those of the past, which I feel is completely wrong.

In current trends, with labor being recruited overseas, and the nature of computerization being labor saving, value isn't being produced domestically and the economy needs to rely on financial bubbles (including overvaluation of tech companies (http://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-huge-hurdles-facebook-has-to-clear-2013-11-05).) Lowering interest rates doesn't help anymore because of low ROAs (the falling rate of profit), so there are desperate suggestions like eliminating cash in order to be able to set negative interest rates on savings. Instead, maybe trade barriers and protections from capital shifting overseas, along with government grants and spending, would help the US economy as it has historically.

None of that would be politically feasible of course. So, with capital mobility, it's areas outside of the US where labor is being mobilized that are going to be doing the growing, if any growth is going to take place at all. Even then, it may just be driven by population growth.

Desperation and bad times are here to stay it looks like, and could have been here since the 1980s. If anyone has any analysis or further thoughts or corrections on this (from a Marxian perspective) I would like to read it.

ckaihatsu
9th December 2013, 23:05
http://www.businessinsider.com/do-we-need-bubbles-for-strong-economic-growth-2013-11?utm_source=slate&utm_medium=referral&utm_term=partner





If that's the case, the scary part is whether we can have robust economic growth without a bubble or does persistently bumping up against the zero lower bound prevent that?




The good news is that we can break free of that bound. The Fed could allow for greater inflation, lowering real interest rates and bringing the economy back into equilibrium.


This is Keynesian wishful thinking. The interest rate is *already* near zero, and has been there for awhile now. Also, there's been negligible inflation despite the conventional expectation that doing this -- increasing the money supply -- causes inflation.

In fact we're seeing the *opposite* -- capital has been taking public monies and hoarding the cash, which is an indication of *deflation*, or the over-valuation of certain assets, out of circulation.





Another method would be to move to a cashless society where people cannot hoard money


This part is incredibly disingenuous and is anti-populist -- blaming "people" for the cash-hoarding of corporations and of the rich.





and thus the Fed can cut nominal rates below zero.


As though the mechanical play of turning banks into chaperones of people's money, combined with a percentage-bonus on top of free government credit for investments, would somehow be the trick to successfully jumpstart the economy when this general approach *already* hasn't been working.





All of these tools are intended to break free of that bound. This would spur greater investment and bring back full employment.


No, we're seeing a *risk-averse* sentiment from capital, and a *deflationary* flight out of the economy and into protectionist assets.





However, we aren't becoming a cashless society anytime soon and the Fed's institutional structure has limited how loose it can make its policy.


Hmmmm, this sentence seems to contradict the entire previous, optimistic part...(!)





That means that we could be stuck at zero, struggling to regain full employment. Krugman speculates that decreased labor force participation and slower population growth will only exacerbate this problem, leading to lower demand and thus reduced investment. If the Fed cannot get the desired rate of savings and investment to reach a natural equilibrium point, then Summers may be right. Bubbles may be necessary for robust economic growth. That's a scary possibility.


In other words, the 'fictitious capital' of endless government debt is simply handed over to private interests, to be duly stuffed into mattresses. Some economy....