"london 'slaves' had been in political collective with captors, police say"

[ed miliband]

this is a very strange and concerning case:



Two of the three women allegedly held for 30 years as slaves had lived in a political collective with their captors, police have disclosed.

Metropolitan police commander Steve Rodhouse told reporters that two of the alleged victims met the male suspect in London through a shared political ideology and began living together in a "collective".

The address where the women lived with their alleged captors is understood to be a three-storey block in Peckford Place, Stockwell, south London. Police are conducting house-to-house inquiries in the area.

The suspects, both 67, are of Indian and Tanzanian origin and came to the UK in the 1960s, police said. They have been released on bail to a date in January.

A 30-year-old British woman, a 57-year-old Irish woman and a 69-year-old Malaysian woman were rescued from a house last month, after one of the women called a support charity asking for help. All three women are believed to have suffered emotional and physical abuse.

Scotland Yard revealed that part of the agreement when the women were removed from the address on 25 October was that police would not at that stage take any action.

None of the women was reported missing after they were rescued. Officers have recovered a birth certificate for the 30-year-old woman, who is believed to have lived her entire life in servitude.

Rodhouse said police agreed to move at a slow pace to accommodate the fragile state of mind of the alleged victims.

"Part of the agreement on 25 October when they were removed from the suspects' address was that police would not at that stage take any action. Since that date we have been working to gain their trust and evidence. That came to fruition on 21 November, when we were in a position to make arrests," he said.

Rodhouse said police were examining the nature of the cult. "The people involved, the nature of that collective and how it operated is all subject to our investigation and we are slowly and painstakingly piecing together more information," he said.

"Somehow that collective came to an end and … somehow the women ended up continuing to live with the suspects. How this resulted in the women living in this way for over 30 years is what are seeking to establish, but we believe emotional and physical abuse has been a feature of all the victims' lives."

The 30-year-old woman's birth certificate was the only the official documentation that police have recovered.

"We believe she has lived with the suspects and the other victims all her life, but of course at this early stage we are still seeking out evidence," Rodhouse said.

Meanwhile, as officers stood guard on Saturday at the three-storey block in Stockwell, neighbours spoke of their shock. One local resident, Abdul Rogers, said many people living in the area did not speak to each other. "It's really shocking," he said. "It's a kind of quiet area. I don't even know my next-door neighbour. If I met them on the street now I would not be able to tell it was my next-door neighbour, which is not good for community cohesion. Nobody speaks to each other."

A woman, who gave her name only as Valerie, said the area was usually quiet and calm.

"People who live here respect where they live," she said. "There is still a little community. Seeing all this going on is quite surprising to me. It's shocking really."


http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/23/london-slaves-political-collective-captor-police

as the story develops, the angle being pushed is that it was a left-wing group, see for e.g.:


The two suspects arrested over the discovery are believed to have also been arrested several times in the 1970s, linked to their roles in a far-left political movement based in Brixton.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/24/london-slaves-captors-metropolitan-police-inquiry

i don't believe speculation about these things is particularly helpful but on another forum (one with input from many people based in and around brixton) some users have posted a link to an article about a maoist group who attempted to establish a "red base" in brixton in the 1970s before "going underground" after the closure of their centre and the arrest of various members. this is the group in question:

http://www.marxists.org/history/erol/uk.hightide/#wimlmzt

of course, again, this is all purely speculation based on the reports of it being a left-wing group who 'dissolved' around thirty years ago. whatever the case, as horrific as this story is, it will be interesting to see how it develops.

[Yuppie Grinder]

I bet most posters in this thread will take offense to your implication that this was possibly a fringe new-left group, but it's entirely possible. A lot of far left groups are cult-like.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

What in the fuck?

I haven't seen this much craziness from self-dubbed 'far-leftists' since Jim Jones and the kool-aid incident.

Fucking insane.

[Oenomaus]

I bet most posters in this thread will take offense to your implication that this was possibly a fringe new-left group, but it's entirely possible. A lot of far left groups are cult-like.

Nah, I think anyone at all familiar with the history of the Left - not just the New Left but the left in general - will be familiar with political and bureaucratic cults. Given that the abuse endured after the collective had dissolved, however, I think there is more to this than shitty cultist politics.

[ed miliband]

I bet most posters in this thread will take offense to your implication that this was possibly a fringe new-left group, but it's entirely possible. A lot of far left groups are cult-like.

yeah i was wary of that, but that's the way it's being reported and, given the place these women were held captive, and the length of time, i think it is possible. but then, they might have been new age hippies for all we know, or it might be entirely unrelated to anything that is currently being reported.

[Yuppie Grinder]

Nah, I think anyone at all familiar with the history of the Left - not just the New Left but the left in general - will be familiar with political and bureaucratic cults. Given that the abuse endured after the collective had dissolved, however, I think there is more to this than shitty cultist politics.

you'd be surprised by how ignorant people are and how defensive they can be of even the ugliest elements of left culture

[ed miliband]

the telegraph - yes, yes, very right-wing - report seems to confirm without quite confirming it is the group linked above:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10471517/Slavery-case-two-arrested-ran-a-revolutionary-Communist-collective.html

[Flying Purple People Eater]

you'd be surprised by how ignorant people are and how defensive they can be of even the ugliest elements of left culture

Just rofl.

I'm pretty sure slavery is not an element of left culture. That doesn't even make any fucking sense. It doesn't make sense in the root origin of the term, the modern usage of the term, or anywhere else.

I'm insulted that you would group millions of people with slavers because they claimed to be maoists.

Actions speak louder than words.

[Oenomaus]

Just rofl.

I'm pretty sure slavery is not an element of left culture. That doesn't even make any fucking sense. It doesn't make sense in the root origin of the term, the modern usage of the term, or anywhere else.

I'm insulted that you would group millions of people with slavers because they claimed to be maoists.

Actions speak louder than words.

I'm pretty sure that that's not what KJI wanted to say. The thing is, weird bureaucratic cults are not exactly rare on the left - I could name four or five major ones just off the top of my head. These cults aren't leftist, but they're part of leftist culture.

[Yuppie Grinder]

Just rofl.

I'm pretty sure slavery is not an element of left culture. That doesn't even make any fucking sense. It doesn't make sense in the root origin of the term, the modern usage of the term, or anywhere else.

I'm insulted that you would group millions of people with slavers because they claimed to be maoists.

Actions speak louder than words.

You don't get to pick and choose which elements of left culture are truly "left". Cults are a part of left culture and huge part of left history. That's historical fact, sorry.

[o well this is ok I guess]

I bet most posters in this thread will take offense to your implication that this was possibly a fringe new-left group, but it's entirely possible. A lot of far left groups are cult-like. we've had threads about weird left wing cultism no one ever seemed mad in them. Except towards the cults, of course.
let's all just relish the fact that, as far as we're all aware, we're not cultists.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

oh god clicking that link to their publications .....they are fucking mental! And they talk in that same 'academic' language that so many others on the left talk in. Quite scary, actually!

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Just rofl.

I'm pretty sure slavery is not an element of left culture. That doesn't even make any fucking sense. It doesn't make sense in the root origin of the term, the modern usage of the term, or anywhere else.

I'm insulted that you would group millions of people with slavers because they claimed to be maoists.

Actions speak louder than words.

I think what he's saying is that people can spout and even believe far-left discourses while participating in reactionary social institutions. Like slavery.

Saying this kind of shit isn't possible within leftwing culture because it's rare is like saying Wahabism isn't really within Islamic culture because most Muslims are not Salafists. The point is that some people in leftwing circles are easily influenced by charismatic assholes promising a better tomorrow, and some people in leftwing circles who are charismatic assholes who fill that role and end up exploiting their victims.

[Peterloo]

Can't wait for someone to bring this up next time they ask me about my political beliefs :glare:

[ed miliband]

oh god clicking that link to their publications .....they are fucking mental! And they talk in that same 'academic' language that so many others on the left talk in. Quite scary, actually!

idk, i don't think there's anything academic - pseudo or otherwise - about it, just seems like run of the mill maoism-by-numbers rhetoric. but yeah, very weird stuff, i love this part:


... our comrades are trained to actively participate in battles of annihilation at the ideological and theoretical front against the antics of the revisionists, the trotskyites and in particular Enver Hoxha – the modern day Trotsky – and his anti-China chorus...

hoxha, the modern day trotsky :lol:

[brigadista]

No one knows yet but foresee more swivel eyed loon ranting about immigration because the alleged perps are Indian and Tanzanian - even if they are part of some group their behaviour has nothing to do with politics

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

If you haven't spent some amount of time in a political cult, I question your dedication to the cause comrades.

[Sasha]

One of the Maoist splinters here also turned full sect, funny enough the other half of the split eventually ended up as what is now the Socialist Party, one of the biggest parties in the country: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Unity_Movement_of_the_Netherlands_(Marxi st-Leninist)

[Popular Front of Judea]

A married couple suspected of holding three women as slaves for more than 30 years are former Maoist activists Aravindan Balakrishnan and his wife Chanda, the BBC understands.

According to Marxist archives they were leading figures at the Mao Zedong Memorial Centre based in Acre Lane, Brixton, south London, in the 1970s.
It was raided by police and five people, including the pair, were held.

Mr Balakrishnan, 73, and his 67-year-old wife were arrested on Thursday.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-25084830

[Oenomaus]

I think what he's saying is that people can spout and even believe far-left discourses while participating in reactionary social institutions. Like slavery.

Saying this kind of shit isn't possible within leftwing culture because it's rare is like saying Wahabism isn't really within Islamic culture because most Muslims are not Salafists. The point is that some people in leftwing circles are easily influenced by charismatic assholes promising a better tomorrow, and some people in leftwing circles who are charismatic assholes who fill that role and end up exploiting their victims.

I am not sure "charisma" is to blame - have you ever seen Bob Avakian speak? Or LaRouche? Or Healy? All of these people had the charisma of a wet mop. I think "get rich quick" (or rather, "start a revolution quick"), organisational loyalty, bizarre politics (often those that want to erase the boundary between the personal and the political), and the element of personal commitment (if you've spent 30 years with the WRP and Gerry Healy barges in one day and eats your kids, you'll be angry - but at the same time, you'll be throwing away 30 years if you quit), are to blame.


Can't wait for someone to bring this up next time they ask me about my political beliefs :glare:

Well, feel free to point out that there are liberal, moderate, conservative, and fascist cults as well. In fact the politics of many of these cults are not that extreme. Chairman BOB (I wonder if anyone will get the reference) can sound like a CPUSA member at times.

[Popular Front of Judea]

So I wonder if the would-be revolutionary leader ever logged on to RevLeft? :grin:


The 73-year-old man arrested on suspicion of holding three women captive in a south London (http://www.theguardian.com/uk/london) flat for 30 years is a one-time Communist party activist who was well known within far-left circles in London during the mid- and late 1970s as the leader of a separatist party-cum-commune.

Aravindan Balakrishnan, known as Comrade Bala, had been a senior member of the Communist party of England (Marxist-Leninist) – a member of the party's central committee – but according to a history of the movement he split from the party in 1974.

His new organisation, described as "characterised by the ultra-left posturing and Mao worship", was called the Workers' Institute of Marxism-Leninism-Mao Zedong Thought. But the group is not thought to have been active since the 1970s – before one of the women, now aged 30, was born.
Balakrishnan's beliefs, niche even among the ultra-left groups of the time, styled his group as a direct component of Maoist China, calling on the Red army to come to south London to liberate working people.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/25/london-slavery-suspect-communist-activist-balakrishnan/print

[Ismail]

idk, i don't think there's anything academic - pseudo or otherwise - about it, just seems like run of the mill maoism-by-numbers rhetoric. but yeah, very weird stuff, i love this part:

hoxha, the modern day trotsky :lol:Daniel Burstein of the CPML, shortly before dropping any pretenses of Marxism and becoming a bourgeois journalist (and is an entrepreneur nowadays) wrote (http://www.marxists.org/history/erol/ncm-5/burstein.htm) in 1980 that, "To a lesser degree, many Marxist-Leninists were also influenced by Enver Hoxha and the Albanian Party of Labor. But now it appears that the Albanian party leaders have degenerated into an isolated band of ultra-'left' splitters and Trotskyites of sorts."

Likewise in their 1979 article "Beat Back the Dogmato-Revisionist Attack on Mao Tsetung Thought (http://www.marxists.org/history/erol/ncm-5/rcp-hoxha/index.htm)," the RCPUSA wrote that, "Hoxha claims that Leninist principles 'do not permit the existence of many lines, of opposing trends in the communist party.' Brilliant! With one sentence Hoxha wipes out the need to fight revisionism, dogmatism, Trotskyism and every other conceivable deviation that might arise within the ranks of the Party." And, "Of course this is not the first time in history that revisionism has posed itself as 'orthodox' Marxism and tried to paint the genuine revolutionary communists with the brush of 'deviationism,' or even fanaticism. Karl Kautsky was the orthodox Marxist of his day in his battle against Leninism. And, likewise, Trotsky posed as the 'proletarian' and 'pure' Marxist as he did his best to undermine and wreck the world’s first socialist state."

So yeah, Maoists in general had little hesitancy in denouncing Hoxha as a Trotskyist, not just this political cult.

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

So basically Ismail, they're all wankers - trots, hoxha, maoists and their odd RCP and 'Bala' offshoots.

On a serious note, if this bala guy's political party had been inactive for 30+ years, why is that a factor in the story? Was the slavery even motivated by, or related to, his odd political cult?

None of the news stories seem to articulate what, if any, political activities these people were up to in the years since the late 1970s when his Mao worship party seems to have become defunct.

[ed miliband]

So basically Ismail, they're all wankers - trots, hoxha, maoists and their odd RCP and 'Bala' offshoots.

On a serious note, if this bala guy's political party had been inactive for 30+ years, why is that a factor in the story? Was the slavery even motivated by, or related to, his odd political cult?

None of the news stories seem to articulate what, if any, political activities these people were up to in the years since the late 1970s when his Mao worship party seems to have become defunct.

well, the group went underground 30 years ago... these women have been held for some 30 years. it's not difficult to join dots. given the nature of the group when it existed (if you search for the steve rayner article on them it will come up on google books): incredibly close-knit, all money earned going to the collective, etc. it's quite easy to imagine that when the group 'disappeared' - in incredibly paranoid circumstances - it became more sinister, and people involved were left in a more vulnerable position.

[Popular Front of Judea]

On a serious note, if this bala guy's political party had been inactive for 30+ years, why is that a factor in the story? Was the slavery even motivated by, or related to, his odd political cult?

None of the news stories seem to articulate what, if any, political activities these people were up to in the years since the late 1970s when his Mao worship party seems to have become defunct.

Good question. The details of this case have been dribbling out slowly. I assume that the two older captives came into contact with their captors back in the '70s. Once they came to live with the couple they could have been manipulated by fear of government repression, a tactic used by other cultish leftist groups. (The two older captives were immigrants.) See: Communist Party USA (Provisional) (http://www.nytimes.com/1996/11/13/nyregion/drawn-by-child-s-cries-police-uncover-arsenal.html)

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

well, the group went underground 30 years ago... these women have been held for some 30 years. it's not difficult to join dots. given the nature of the group when it existed (if you search for the steve rayner article on them it will come up on google books): incredibly close-knit, all money earned going to the collective, etc. it's quite easy to imagine that when the group 'disappeared' - in incredibly paranoid circumstances - it became more sinister, and people involved were left in a more vulnerable position.

my point was more that, as far as i'm aware, there were 5 people. What have they been doing for 30 years? I agree its so sinister!

Also, i'm willing to bet that if they had a network of 13 houses then they were being funded from somewhere...

[The Idler]

if you've spent 30 years with the WRP and Gerry Healy barges in one day and eats your kids, you'll be angry - but at the same time, you'll be throwing away 30 years if you quit
Good points but this one doesn't apply because the group philosophy of presentism described on Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers%27_Institute_of_Marxism%E2%80%93Leninism%E 2%80%93Mao_Zedong_Thought)

In 1982 Steve Rayner (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Rayner) wrote a study of the organisation and critiqued its presentism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presentism_%28philosophy_of_time%29).
Presentism is the philosophical doctrine that only events and entities that occur in the present exist.

[Comrade Jacob]

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/25/london-slaves-cultlike-political-group

What the fuck is this shit?

[Aware]

They aren't Maoists, they're insane.

[Tim Cornelis]

They aren't Maoists, they're insane.

Implying that's mutually exclusive.

But seriously, there've been various Maoist sects in the West that were actual cults (for instance: KEN-ML in the Netherlands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Unity_Movement_of_the_Netherlands_(Marxi st–Leninist))). I don't find it surprising to find out.

[Arlekino]

I don't even believing there are some slavery. Is in favour to Hollywood movies stories and newspapers sales is high.

[goalkeeper]

I think it is misleading to refer to this as "London Slave case" or whatever. I mean, they were in someway slaves in that they were confined by this Chairman Bala guy seemingly against their will, but I don't this is much about exploited indentured labour and more paranoid weird cult.

[Arlekino]

oh yes what a story 30 years of slavery how this managed? is dark matter somewhere, is nonsense and is fiction.

[The Jay]

oh yes what a story 30 years of slavery how this managed? is dark matter somewhere, is nonsense and is fiction.

You're blaming the victim here. It isn't their fault that they were manipulated and brainwashed. Quit it.

[ed miliband]

You're blaming the victim here. It isn't their fault that they were manipulated and brainwashed. Quit it.

it's not victim blaming: it's denying any victims even exist.

[The Jay]

it's not victim blaming: it's denying any victims even exist.

Semantics could be argued here.

[ed miliband]

i don't think so, the user you quoted is basically saying the whole thing is completely made up, a fiction to sell more newspapers and hollywood films. victim blaming implies that there are victims, sure, but they are to blame for what has happened to them. the quoted user doesn't think these victims exist to be blamed.

[Craig_J]

I stopped reading after the second paragraph.

They use the terms "communist" and "far-left" simply as a way of putting the left down and making us look like we are all therefore the same. It's that old "leftists want totalitarian dictatorship" thing again.

They may have been Maoists and may have been communists. But their use of language is just more prooganda.

Would you ever see this in the media???

"The couple which held two women as slaves for thirty years are believed to be captalists. They were revealed to be Thatcherites, who had activley supported the Conservative party during her tenure, and were believed to belong to a cult of business leaders"

Of course not, the media think if you're a mainstream captialist that isn't a cause for any problems. However if you're leftist that is evidence that your ideology was the reason for you're brutality.

[Craig_J]

I don't even believing there are some slavery. Is in favour to Hollywood movies stories and newspapers sales is high.

What's next, holocaust denial? Of course it exists.

[Sasha]

I'm pretty sure if these where moonies or something that would get equal mention, sure they would underplay the rightwing, cappy connections of the moonies but then again, rightwing cults tend to be more secretive about their ideaoligy than left cults.

[RedStarOverChina]

The fact that all the other slavers that were caught were capitalists goes without saying...

[CommieMaybe]

Well as a Communist from Scotland this is gonna' come back and bite up the ar*e.

Can't wait for someone to mention it to me. :laugh:

[CommieMaybe]

This is just blatant anti-Communist propaganda. ITV and the BBC have been broadcasting Rightist things for years.

I can't wait for Scotland to be Independent so we can get away from the BBC. :star3: :hammersickle:

[bad ideas actualised by alcohol]

This is just blatant anti-Communist propaganda. ITV and the BBC have been broadcasting Rightist things for years.

I can't wait for Scotland to be Independent so we can get away from the BBC. :star3: :hammersickle:

Media will clearly cease to be shitty when Scotland becomes independent. With BBC gone the new Scottish media will definitely give the left a fair crack of the whip.

Are you really this naive?

[Ravachol]

How is this a surprise to anyone? Shitty maoist cults have been around sinds the dawn of, well, maoism. The entire history of various weird German K-Gruppen with their forced hairstyles, strictly monitored personal relationships, corvee labor for 'the party' and dogmatic cults of personality is only one in a long line of a quite typical trope (jonestown anyone?).

[Oenomaus]

Good points but this one doesn't apply because the group philosophy of presentism described on Wikipedia

Wikipedia editors have an interesting tendency to link every word to its most common definition even when it is clear that a variant usage is intended - for example, I wouldn't be surprised if a Wikipedia article on Mandel's criticism of "state capitalist" theories linked the word "impressionism" (here meaning the tendency to base an analysis on superficial impressions and not a thorough analysis) to the article about the art movement. In this case, I doubt the "Workers' Institute" wrote much about the philosophy of time - A- and B-series and so on - and that "presentism" probably referred to some tendency of theirs to focus on immediate action with no mid-term strategic goals.

In any case - presentism in philosophy of time states that past states of affairs do not exist, not that they are not important (it is perfectly intelligible to say that the Emperor Napoleon no longer exists, yet is not insignificant.)

[Arlekino]

What's next, holocaust denial? Of course it exists.

Nothing to do about holocaust this was horror as we all know it. I am sorry I can't not believe 30 years is too big gap. I think media trying to brainwashing us.

[Ismail]

I am not sure "charisma" is to blame - have you ever seen Bob Avakian speak? Or LaRouche? Or Healy? All of these people had the charisma of a wet mop.Ex-members of LaRouche's cult do actually recall him being charismatic. His charisma was expressed in terms of constant optimism and the feeling that his cult was fulfilling "world-historic" goals, with LaRouche as a genius philosopher/statesman/etc.

Also he wasn't that uncharismatic in his younger years: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxuyOsAJmIM&t=4m58s (7:53 onwards = lol)

I notice such tends to be the case with political cults. Peoples Temple makes an interesting contrast because it was like a religious-political hybrid, Jones' personal charisma was very important. Here's Jones replying to a question from his congregation: http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/nas/streaming/dept/scuastaf/collections/peoplestemple/MP3/Q929.MP3

[ed miliband]

itv have dug out some footage from 1997, after a woman linked to the group died, seems the women believed they were under a constant fascist threat...

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2013-11-21/women-slavery-arrests/

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Do people see this cult-like behavior as something particularly problematic for Maoists? Or is it just something particular to political ideologies on the extreme? The reason I ask isn't to denegrate whatever theoretical contribution that Maoists make, but just noticing the way that many less theoretically minded Maoists just regurgitate his words or use his image without any concern for a theoretical concern for Capitalism. That said, it's something other Marxist perspectives are guilty of too, so perhaps it's not fair to attribute it to Maoists in particular. On the other hand the Sparts, which I would consider in some respects to be cult-like, still can regurgitate theory and don't gravitate around particular charismatic leaders. It also seems to be a view that the Chinese Communist Party themselves put forward during events like the cultural revolution.

http://chineseposters.net/images/e13-644.jpg

See in the propaganda poster how it is the noble leader bringing the working classes to communism. I don't want to say it's something that Mao himself or Maoist intellectuals encouraged (in part because there are some Maoist intellectuals I respect) but instead that it may be a part of the political culture which grew out of (sometimes relatively isolated) far left groups. Bob Avakian is an example of that. So is the Shining Path and, it seems, in certain respects the main Nepali Maoist party. Of course, in some contexts it seems to have been worse than others - Bob is relatively harmless for instance, while the SL in Peru was brutal and violent in upholding the commands of their leader.


I am not sure "charisma" is to blame - have you ever seen Bob Avakian speak? Or LaRouche? Or Healy? All of these people had the charisma of a wet mop. I think "get rich quick" (or rather, "start a revolution quick"), organisational loyalty, bizarre politics (often those that want to erase the boundary between the personal and the political), and the element of personal commitment (if you've spent 30 years with the WRP and Gerry Healy barges in one day and eats your kids, you'll be angry - but at the same time, you'll be throwing away 30 years if you quit), are to blame.


I think that people with different backgrounds will find different kinds of people to be "charismatic". You're right though - many of these people aren't charismatic to the general population. There's a funny kind of charisma that comes with the appearance of absolute certainty in one's beliefs though.

[hatzel]

I am sorry I can't not believe 30 years is too big gap.

What does this mean? Too big gap for what? What are you suggesting here?

[Ismail]

Various Trot leaders are extolled by their respective sects: Tony Cliff, Ted Grant, Gerry Healy, etc. LaRouche transformed his Trot/Luxemburg group into a full-blown political cult, eventually dropping Marxism completely. Keep in mind that even Todor Zhivkov of Bulgaria was praised within his country as a Marxist theorist and 40+ volumes of his Collected Works were in existence. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that communist parties are supposed to be the vanguards of the working-class, so it makes sense that the leaders are considered foremost theorists and organizers (e.g. certain Trots are really into James P. Cannon's theories on party building.)

One bourgeois anti-cult work claims that democratic centralism and the vanguard concept are inherently vulnerable to developing cult symptoms and analyzes the CWI in this regard: http://culteducation.com/reference/general/general434.html

I think the way in which Maoist propaganda worked, which was meant to play off of a very much backward society, is a bit more conductive to cult activities than ML or Trot parties.

[Gambino]

There have always been stupid people on the far left, the left, the center left, the center right, the right, and the far right.
Unfortunately, no ideology is safe from stupidity.

[Sasha]

Do people see this cult-like behavior as something particularly problematic for Maoists? Or is it just something particular to political ideologies on the extreme?

i think it is more the case of that all 60's political hippie communes where under an increased risk of becoming cults for a whole lot of societal reasons, the fact that most of these where new-left maoists is i think mostly coincidence as this was just the default ideology for student radicals at the time, though obviously in groups that where more egalitarian (less authoritarian politically) it would have been harder for a cult leader to establish themselves

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

i think it is more the case of that all 60's political hippie communes where under an increased risk of becoming cults for a whole lot of societal reasons, the fact that most of these where new-left maoists is i think mostly coincidence as this was just the default ideology for student radicals at the time, though obviously in groups that where more egalitarian (less authoritarian politically) it would have been harder for a cult leader to establish themselves

This is my own thought on the subject - Maoism isn't unique in the risk of this, but it seems that certain authoritarian elements in Maoist political strategy and theory may reinforce the danger. I don't want to give an unfair account of the Maoists though and personally I loathe pointless sectarianism, so I say it not out of a desire to disabuse Maoists of Maoism but of hoping future generations of people inspired by that ideology don't make the same errors twice. I certainly don't think the Trots, anarchists, hoxhaites, ultra leftists etc have any right to denigrate Maoism for its faults either without themselves doing some serious self-criticism. Think of it as a "constructive sectarianism" :P .

[Flying Purple People Eater]

I notice such tends to be the case with political cults. Peoples Temple makes an interesting contrast because it was like a religious-political hybrid, Jones' personal charisma was very important. Here's Jones replying to a question from his congregation: http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/nas/streaming/dept/scuastaf/collections/peoplestemple/MP3/Q929.MP3

Those files of Jones' speeches and works is what made me finally evaluate political groups solely on their actions, not their words. He sounds so genuine that it's scary. He almost sounds like a genuine progressive (he was in contact with members of the Black Panthers even?), but then you remember that he basically hypnotised these churches into treating him like a god, faked near-death experiences to make himself seem immortal, and then kill everyone with kool-aid in Guyana.

[Ismail]

Those files of Jones' speeches and works is what made me finally evaluate political groups solely on their actions, not their words. He sounds so genuine that it's scary. He almost sounds like a genuine progressive (he was in contact with members of the Black Panthers even?), but then you remember that he basically hypnotised these churches into treating him like a god, faked near-death experiences to make himself seem immortal, and then kill everyone with kool-aid in Guyana.The term "revolutionary suicide" was appropriated and bastardized by Jones, he took it from Huey Newton who had in mind people dying in the course of active struggle, inspiring others in their resistance. He also visited Cuba to meet Newton, had Newton (and Angela Davis of CPUSA fame) extol Jonestown residents to resist imperialism (this being a few months before the mass murder-suicide) via radio, and in fact Newton winded up losing relatives in Jonesetown.

You also had the Soviet ambassador to Guyana saying (http://jonestown.sdsu.edu/AboutJonestown/Tapes/Tapes/TapeTranscripts/Q352.html) this particularly inglorious thing upon visiting the commune: "on behalf of the Embassy of the USSR, I’d like to send to you my deepest and our deepest and the most sincere greetings to the people of this first socialist and communist community of the United States of America, in Guyana and in the world."

[Popular Front of Judea]

Heartrending interviews with the family of one of the captives. A cautionary tale for the-revolution-is-any-day-now crowd:


The former member said: “What happened is that over 25 to 30 years all of the things that were supposed to happen, didn’t happen."

“The world did not have a global revolution. His vision collapsed but he still tried to keep a grip on a small number of people.

“Aishah had cut herself off from everybody, her relationship, her family and lived in the collective. She remained with them, was financially dependent on them, had no friends, she became more and more reliant on them.”

He went on: “If your self-confidence is being chipped away all the time, self-esteem chipped away, you feel intellectually inferior … and you are dependent on group living, you are as good as being in prison.”

Slavery case: the high-flying student who vanished into a Maoist sect | Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/10474157/Slavery-case-the-high-flying-student-who-vanished-into-a-Maoist-sect.html)

[brigadista]

Im reserving an opinion on this until more information is revealed.

Its not clear at all what went on .

[ed miliband]

Im reserving an opinion on this until more information is revealed.

Its not clear at all what went on .

fucking hell, it's not clear whether they were 'slaves' or not, it is clear this was a fucking cult and these women were in a vulnerable position. what is it about your politics that means this is obscure to you?

[brigadista]

fucking hell, it's not clear whether they were 'slaves' or not, it is clear this was a fucking cult and these women were in a vulnerable position. what is it about your politics that means this is obscure to you?

The whole facts are not out there yet - nothing to do with my politics - why are you so upset with me EM?

IMHO nothing is clear about this -

[ed miliband]

The whole facts are not out there yet - nothing to do with my politics - why are you so upset with me EM?

IMHO nothing is clear about this -

i'm not "upset" with you, i just think the response from some - thankfully only very few - on here has been bizarre, as if the british state, media and met police are so concerned about the maoist threat (or just the left, lol) that they'd fabricate a story about a weird sect that disappeared in paranoid circumstances thirty years ago.

if you think nothing is clear about this case, i certainly hope you think nothing is normal about it either. it's worrying if not.

[brigadista]

My response was not about the Brit state fabricating a story but because not all the info has been released - this situation can occur in a lot of different scenarios not just within a political group - most commonly in the nuclear family the place where most child ,women and elder abuse takes place which is common

we haven't heard yet from any of the people involved press so far is speculative

[blake 3:17]

Sian Davies, Who Died From Mysterious Window Fall, 'Lived With Lambeth Hostage Suspects'
The Huffington Post UK/PA | Posted: 26/11/2013 10:05 GMT | Updated: 26/11/2013 10:40 GMT
A woman who died after falling from a window had been living with the London 'slavery' suspects, it has emerged.

The cousin of Sian Davies said she had died after in 1997 after mysteriously falling out of a bathroom window in the house the group were living in in Herne Hill, south London.

Ms Davies was kept in hospital for seven months after the fall, but her family claim they were not told.

The Mirror is reporting that the death is being investigated by police, as they try to unravel what happened in the house run by Aravindan Balakrishnan and his wife Chanda in Brixton, where three women say they were kept as slaves.

Police have confirmed that there are ongoing inquiries relating to a total of 13 addresses, all in London, linked to the couple, who ran a communist cult in the 1970s.

Sian Davies had reportedly lived there for 20 years.

Her cousin, Eleri Morgan, said Aravindan Balakrishnan was more of a "toothless old man" than a "charismatic" figure.

She said Ms Davies wrote home talking of how she was looking after the "mothers of the world" but was not allowed to see her cousin.

Her letters always spoke of "comrade Bala" - the name that Balakrishnan was referred to.

Morgan met Balakrishnan at the inquest into her cousin's death. She told ITV News: "I had such a shock because I imagined somebody charismatic and there was this toothless old man - well looked old."

A senior council source confirmed that Balakrishnan and his wife Chanda were arrested last week by police amid allegations that they held three women for more than 30 years. It is claimed they were leaders of an extremist Maoist collective.

sian davies

Davies died after falling from a window
The alleged victims - a 30-year-old Briton, a 57-year-old Irishwoman and a 69-year-old Malaysian - are believed to have suffered years of "physical and mental abuse" at the hands of the pair.

The youngest of the three alleged victims is said to have written letters to neighbour Marius Feneck, 26, describing her life as being "like a fly trapped in a spider's web".

full article: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/11/26/sian-davies-lambeth_n_4341686.html?utm_hp_ref=uk