Capitalism...the Ultimate Stage of Agriculture?

[Hexen]

One thing I've been recently wondering about or rather came to realization. Is Capitalism really the ultimate stage of Agriculture much like Communism is the ultimate stage of Socialism?

[Logical seal]

no no no no no and more no

Capitalism is the final stage of greed.

[Logical seal]

Also read som books bout argiculture k?

[BIXX]

Capitalism I would say, is the final stage of a civilized world, which is based around agriculture, as it is what allowed us to form cities. However, civilization also have us oppression like gender roles.

Communism, I would argue, isn't possible within civilization. However it would be possible in a post-civilized world, as systems and oppression would be unable to flourish.

Also, in your post you compare agriculture to socialism- I think that is wrong. But I don't have much time now to make lengthy posts, so I'll return later. In the meantime, here's a cow.


http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/11/21/eduguguv.jpg

[Hexen]

Also, in your post you compare agriculture to socialism- I think that is wrong.

Actually I think you misread my post since I never compared Agriculture to Socialism, I was really contrasting from the former saying "Just like Communism is the Ultimate form of Socialism".

[Remus Bleys]

Actually I think you misread my post since I never compared Agriculture to Socialism, I was really contrasting from the former saying "Just like Communism is the Ultimate form of Socialism".
I was going to reply but then this threw me off really bad so I didnt.
Elaborate.

[Hexen]

I was going to reply but then this threw me off really bad so I didnt.
Elaborate.

Uhh....I thought I was making myself clear. Maybe I need to rephrase my wording.

Is Capitalism really the ultimate stage of Agriculture just like Communism is the ultimate stage of Socialism?

Hope that clears what I'm trying to say.

[Remus Bleys]

Uhh....I thought I was making myself clear.
No you werent. Agriculture is to Capitalism as Socialism is to Communism is a pretty vague statement.

[Hexen]

No you werent. Agriculture is to Capitalism as Socialism is to Communism is a pretty vague statement.

I think I never really intend to said that but my wording appeared that way hence the confusion.

I was really trying to say that Communism is the Final Stage of Socialism.

[BIXX]

Actually I think you misread my post since I never compared Agriculture to Socialism, I was really contrasting from the former saying "Just like Communism is the Ultimate form of Socialism".

Well, I think I know what you meant (being that capitalism is the last form of agriculture, in some ways similar to the fact that communism is the last form of socialism). But technically, what you are saying is incorrect as they have different relations. But that's not a big deal really, it's just something to keep in mind.

[the debater]

Uhh....I thought I was making myself clear. Maybe I need to rephrase my wording.

Is Capitalism really the ultimate stage of Agriculture just like Communism is the ultimate stage of Socialism?

Hope that clears what I'm trying to say.

Forgive me if I misunderstood your question a little bit, but I would say no. In terms of agricultural society being the norm, I would have to say that feudalism was the ultimate stage of agriculture. Capitalism in my opinion had more to do with urban factory labor, industrial workers who worked with machines rather than with plows or horses.

So basically, my informal opinion is that feudalism might've been the ultimate stage of agriculture. Capitalism on the other hand seems to have been the beginning stage of industrialized, urban society. This is a very general opinion, so obviously do some more research to find out more about this topic.

[BIXX]

Is Capitalism really the ultimate stage of Agriculture just like Communism is the ultimate stage of Socialism?

Not just like, but to make a simplistic analogy it's an ok comparison.

[Hexen]

Forgive me if I misunderstood your question a little bit, but I would say no. In terms of agricultural society being the norm, I would have to say that feudalism was the ultimate stage of agriculture. Capitalism in my opinion had more to do with urban factory labor, industrial workers who worked with machines rather than with plows or horses.

So basically, my informal opinion is that feudalism might've been the ultimate stage of agriculture. Capitalism on the other hand seems to have been the beginning stage of industrialized, urban society. This is a very general opinion, so obviously do some more research to find out more about this topic.

Or maybe Capitalism is urbanized/industrial agriculture then that derived or evolved from feudalism?

[BIXX]

So basically, my informal opinion is that feudalism might've been the ultimate stage of agriculture. Capitalism on the other hand seems to have been the beginning stage of industrialized, urban society. This is a very general opinion, so obviously do some more research to find out more about this topic.

Feudalism, while based more heavily around agriculture, wasn't the ultimate stage, because the ultimate means the last. Capitalism is the ultimate form of civilization (and civilization is the direct result of agriculture), rather.

[GiantMonkeyMan]

Agriculture is production based around growing/rearing food produce. It exists due to necessity (ie, the need to eat) in capitalism. Perhaps you are asking whether or not capitalism is the ultimate stage of fuedalism. To which I would respond, no. The wage labour of capitalism, which in contemporary production is employed in the process of agriculture, is very different to peasant production of fuedalism even if ultimately they both are examples of exploitation of a working class due to private property. There was revolutionary change to move from fuedalism to capitalism in the form of the English Civil War, the American Revolution, the French Revolution etc ultimately culminating in the bourgeois revolutions across Europe in 1848.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

If we judge agriculture by harvest potential then yes, I'd say modern capitalist society is the 'ultimate stage' of agricultural productive capability. The problem is no longer harvesting food - it is the distribution of that food. I'm sure you've all seen the videos of homeless and starving poor waiting outside supermarkets for expired food only for the companies to incinerate them in order to keep value constant.

Agricultural societies that came second? I'd have to say the Mesoamerican and Peruvian civilizations. On the eve of the conquistador invasions there were over one million people living in Panama alone. This was because of the enormous populations that could be sustained with many of the civilisations' ingenious farming and irrigation techniques, along with the healthy variety of fruits, vegetables and grains (the techniques and machinery were for the most part utterly destroyed by roving conquistador jihadis, along with most literature of the sciences, mathematics and mechanics involved - foreign books being 'heathenistic' and all).

[the debater]

Agricultural societies that came second?

What do you mean by "came second?" :confused:

[Flying Purple People Eater]

What do you mean by "came second?" :confused:

In terms of productivity.

[GiantMonkeyMan]

I don't think that you should define the quality of agricultural production in capitalism as 'ultimate'. Agriculture is at its most productive in the history of mankind (although something has to be said about a higher human population necessitating this development as well) however it is also probably at its most inefficient. We produce currently over 2.5 times the amount to feed everyone in the world their recommended daily calorie intake and yet we also have famines on one side and dangerous levels of obesity on the other. We have tonnes of grain in India being left to rot whilst that same country is rife with malnutrition. Our fishing industry, particularly the trawlers, destroy the natural habitat of fish so that each year there's less to catch rather than maintaining a balanced level of fish population. The amazon rainforest is yearly cut back in order to provide grazing territories for cattle.

The lack of forward planning in capitalist agricultural production is glaringly obvious and, to any rational person with a vision of a better world being possible, it could never be seen as its ultimate stage. To me, agriculture will reach its ultimate stage when everyone in the world can be provided the food needed to live a pleasant and healthy life whilst ensuring that the impact on the environment is at a minimum.

[Oenomaus]

Agriculture can't be viewed in isolation from the rest of the mode of production, and from the general economic conditions. Capitalist agriculture can't be "ultimate", whatever that means, unless one is willing to abandon the Marxist analysis of capitalism. Beyond the period of agriculture based on the private ownership of the means of production lies the period of agriculture based on the social ownership of the means of production, and indeed of a disappearing distinction between agriculture and industry.

It should also be noted that agriculture in line with the forms of finance and imperialist capitalism - large privately-owned, mechanised estates - is not exactly ubiquitous, though it is more so than it was 50 years ago. Survivals of petty commodity production and landlordism (and semi-serfdom) are not rare - and the present bourgeoisie can not rid the world of these phenomena.