Zombie Army of Papa Doc

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

What does anyone here know of the Tonton Macoute?

http://i811.photobucket.com/albums/zz37/CovenofMercury/6a00d83451afa369e20120a63b64f3970b-400wi.jpg

[Hrafn]

Ah yes, the Tonton Macoute. Or the Militia of National Security Volunteers. Which, admittedly, doesn't sound quite as scary. I find it very interesting how they helped majorly spread HIV/AIDS to the Americas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luckner_Cambronne).

[Venas Abiertas]

Reading your wiki link, I couldn't help noticing that the sonofa***** died in MIAMI in 2006.

If I torture and kill peasants and leftists here in Central America, can I retire to a bungalow in Miami, too? Hopefully with a pension from the CIA and a talk show on gusano hate-radio as well.

Being turned into a zombie is the worst fear of a former slave. Not even in death does one escape forced servitude.

Tontons Macoutes murdered more than 60,000 Haitians. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonton_Macoute

Nice. Good thing its leader found refuge in "the land of the brave and the free."

[erupt]

Were they really zombies in the normal Haitian sense of the term? By this I mean administered the concoction others are that "turn them into" zombies. One of the plants used has pharmacological side-effects including confusion and decreased heart-rate to the point of others not being to get a pulse or hear heartbeats..the one used by witch-doctors, of course.

My point is, if they were really "zombified" that way, how in the world could they successfully walk, let alone act as a secret police-type organization?

Sounds like a way to make them sound intimidating to a population still largely belonging to animist religion.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

Sounds like a way to make them sound intimidating to a population still largely belonging to animist religion.

That. It was scary to a population where 80% of the people still practice some form of Voodoo - though I have a feeling that some Haitians could tell the difference between their folk myths and Papa Doc's thugs.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

That. It was scary to a population where 80% of the people still practice some form of Voodoo - though I have a feeling that some Haitians could tell the difference between their folk myths and Papa Doc's thugs.

But what if they weren't myths? There's been several cases of zombies popping up and theoretically, given that it was Haiti and vodou was big, why couldn't there be a militia of zombified persons?

[Sea]

But what if they weren't myths? There's been several cases of zombies popping up and theoretically, given that it was Haiti and vodou was big, why couldn't there be a militia of zombified persons?
Explain to us unfaithful what you mean by zombies popping up.

[Sasha]

Just drugged out thugs and brainwashed childsoldiers doing a warlords bidding to do horrible unthinkable things, obviously the local culture gave room for stories about zombies (which happily got exploited to instill even more fear) just as warlords in India would now exploit the thuga, or in the middle east the Mahdi, Africa witchcraft, the SS used occultist pagan symbolism, etc etc

[Red Commissar]

Reading your wiki link, I couldn't help noticing that the sonofa***** died in MIAMI in 2006.

If I torture and kill peasants and leftists here in Central America, can I retire to a bungalow in Miami, too? Hopefully with a pension from the CIA and a talk show on gusano hate-radio as well.

Being turned into a zombie is the worst fear of a former slave. Not even in death does one escape forced servitude.

Tontons Macoutes murdered more than 60,000 Haitians. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonton_Macoute

Nice. Good thing its leader found refuge in "the land of the brave and the free."

You could also be entered into witness protection like Michael Townley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Townley), a CIA stooge that helped Chile's DINA and other military dictatorships in assassinating opposition or with Gladio in Italy.

Or maybe get a gig on Fox like Oliver North.

As for the original topic, I'd heard of it in passing when hearing about Papa Doc's reign. The use of this secret police to instill fear, especially by way of appropriating a local superstition, is pretty much something straight out of a damn Scooby Doo mystery. Still, another reason why Haiti under Papa Doc was pretty much a virtual hellhole reduced to a personal plaything to the whims of a deranged nutter. BUUUT he was against dem reds so I guess he gets a free pass.

[sosolo]

The idea of zombies is prevalent in Haitian Voodoo. The typical process of "creating" one is first the administration of drugs/herbs to cause the seeming "death" of someone. Once they wake up, they are given drugs to make them more susceptible to mind control. The cultural idea of zombie-hood is strong enough that many people, after the "death" process, will truly believe that they are zombies, and as such, will behave as slaves of the witch doctor who brought them back from the dead. That's my understanding of it anyways.

Sorry for all the quotation marks LOL

--sosolo

[erupt]

As I said before, and not necessarily these soldiers, but a zombie-like state can be attained through some concoction made of herbs and medicinal plants in Haiti. Heart rate/pulse, blood pressure, and breathing become so shallow it seems the person is dead. As the half-life of the poison/medicine dissipates, the person "rises". Since some of the concoction is still being metabolized, a remaining side-effect is confusion.

Believe it or not there is some botanical and ethnobotanical literature supporting this..if I could find it I'd post it, but I'm sure a search-engine will do the trick if someone's interest is piqued.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

Explain to us unfaithful what you mean by zombies popping up.

Try the case of monsieur, Clairvius Narcisse, a zombie, is one example. There have been other cases of reported zombified persons, too. Plus, drugs like scopolamine can cause zombification with surprising results.

[erupt]

Try the case of monsieur, Clairvius Narcisse, a zombie, is one example. There have been other cases of reported zombified persons, too. Plus, drugs like scopolamine can cause zombification with surprising results.

Atropa belladonna, which is a nightshade, has hyoscyamine, scopolamine, and is where atropine is derived from. This, as well as Datura stramonium, another nightshade, are given to these "zombies." They are given pufferfish venom (tetrodotoxin) and toad venom (bufotoxin) first. Then, the added effects of the nightshade/s make the heart and lungs slow down so much, heart rate and respiration are almost completely undetectable, even to medical doctors. Nightshade has been used as a poison before, and believe it or not if not enough was administered, the person who was poisoned sometimes sits up in the morgue, awakening from the chemical-induced coma that failed to kill them.

They are all various toxins that "complement" each others effects; side-effects from some cause confusion and delirium, while side-effects from another cause memory loss, while others yet may cause hallucinations. It's basically a perfect storm of chemical/pharmacological effects that witch doctors utilize. The process to make these concoctions and the ingredients themselves are usually kept secret, but ethnobotanical research has managed to learn a few things about the phenomenon of zombification.

[RedWaves]

I'm pleased to see these mass murderers found refugee in America and never paid for their crimes. And they say America is the "good guys".

[SensibleLuxemburgist]

One of the most disgusting examples of US complicity towards "friendly" third world dictators. There was a famous story about a US ambassador to Haiti who was made an honorary Tonton Macoute because she called for more aid to Haiti during the Duvalier regime.