Shouldn't we focus more of our attention on Greece?

[Alonso Quijano]

Any Marxist knows that Capitalism will fail because of its crises.

After the global economic crises, Greece is still not recovered. Unemployment, poverty, austerity.

There, where there are white western people.

Crises caused not because of racism, not because of militarism, not because of religion. Purely because of capitalism. And it is relatively ignored by us.

So we talk about freeing Palestinians, talk about freeing black people, talk about freeing all kinds of oppressed people, and I'm not saying it's wrong, but what about freeing the Greeks?

What about saying "fuck you" to the people who claim debt? What about supporting and advocating for Greek independence from the chains of capitalism? Blaming German imperialism, blaming the banks, blaming the Jews, blaming the government, blaming the immigrants. What about the actual chains that are inevitable in every capitalist country?

Don't we Marxists claim that every sectarian oppression is a divide-and-rule tactic to hide the real one? So here, in Greece it is bold and it can't be hid no more.

If we don't capitalise (no pun intended) on the Greek crisis to spread Communism, what crisis are we waiting for? What can be bigger than this, what can give us better opportunity to show the lie of Capitalism than a place where white "civilised" people are forced to sleep hungry in their cars?

I'm not saying I'm doing anything productive, but all those who demonstrate against wars and racism (not that it's wrong): Where were the mass demonstrations against forcing the Greek people to austerity? There weren't.

When Greek people rioted against EU measures, when all polls showed they oppose the troika decisions imposed on them, where were the demonstrations calling for democracy? Where were the demonstrations calling for independence? For allowing the people to take control over their own life and country?

Of all crises, Greece's one was the biggest.

What bigger and more urgent fight do we Communists have to fight than the one going out right now in Greece?

[Queen Mab]

Er what?

Are you trying to divorce racism and militarism from capitalism and claim that the struggle against the latter is therefore more pure? I'll be kind and assume this has nothing to do with your location.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Yeah we should spend our time freeing the Greeks from capitalism all the way over here in America(or Israel in your case) how? Wouldn't it be better to spend your time fighting global capitalism starting with where you live? International solidarity is important and there definitely needs to be coordination between communists across the globe. But can you see how ridiculous it would be for us to go before crowds of Americans and Israelis and said "We need to free the working class of Greece which was hit hardest by the crisis from capitalism." What about the American working class, the Israeli working class?

[Alonso Quijano]

Er what?

Are you trying to divorce racism and militarism from capitalism and claim that the struggle against the latter is therefore more pure? I'll be kind and assume this has nothing to do with your location.
I think that struggles against racism can lead to new racism (my location). I think that nations are starving also without military wars.

I think that past struggles have failed. Either because people don't care about foreigners, because it's not their kids, or because showing you're against wasn't enough.

This is the crisis needed. In the heart of Europe. Not in the world's back alley. Plus, here its abour agreeing with the political views of the dissenting majority.

It's not about "purity", it's about practical importance.

[Alonso Quijano]

Yeah we should spend our time freeing the Greeks from capitalism all the way over here in America(or Israel in your case) how? Wouldn't it be better to spend your time fighting global capitalism starting with where you live? International solidarity is important and there definitely needs to be coordination between communists across the globe. But can you see how ridiculous it would be for us to go before crowds of Americans and Israelis and said "We need to free the working class of Greece which was hit hardest by the crisis from capitalism." What about the American working class, the Israeli working class?
What about the international brigades in Spain? Not saying it should get to that level.

I think we need write more, to translate, to give them perhaps a moral boost. Because they won't be the last.

There's enough time for you to care for everyone you wanr. I actually warn of capitalism using Greece.

We don't need to free them, they need to free themselves. Maybe later on other nations are able to do the same.

[Queen Mab]

I think that struggles against racism can lead to new racism (my location).

Er, no, it's the occupation itself that leads to anti-semitism, not the struggle against it. And let's differentiate between the racism of Palestinians hating Jews and the racism of systematic institutional oppression against Palestinians by the Israeli state. There's no equivalence between the two, anything else is victim blaming.

I should also point out that I hate capitalists. Should we stop the class struggle because it makes people dislike each other?

[Alonso Quijano]

Er, no, it's the occupation itself that leads to anti-semitism, not the struggle against it. And let's differentiate between the racism of Palestinians hating Jews and the racism of systematic institutional oppression against Palestinians by the Israeli state. There's no equivalence between the two, anything else is victim blaming.

I should also point out that I hate capitalists. Should we stop the class struggle because it makes people dislike each other?
I was actually referring to Jews escaping racism and then becoming racists.

I didn't get your second point at all.

[Queen Mab]

I was actually referring to Jews escaping racism and then becoming racists.

Sorry, my bad. I don't see how that makes sense though. I don't think the experience of anti-semitism and the holocaust created Jewish oppression against Palestinians. It created a national liberation movement which then lead to the oppression of Palestinians, IMO that's a subtle difference. And it's a unique case in history.

[Alonso Quijano]

Sorry, my bad. I don't see how that makes sense though. I don't think the experience of anti-semitism and the holocaust created Jewish oppression against Palestinians. It created a national liberation movement which then lead to the oppression of Palestinians, IMO that's a subtle difference. And it's a unique case in history.
And how tolerant were Croat national liberators? There is racism in Poland which got its liberation too, and in Ukraine.

National liberation usually go hand in hand with feelings of superiority and disregard for other people. But that's really for another topic now.

[Queen Mab]

And how tolerant were Croat national liberators? There is racism in Poland which got its liberation too, and in Ukraine.

National liberation usually go hand in hand with feelings of superiority and disregard for other people. But that's really for another topic now.

That's part of the reason why I'm against national liberation struggles. But that doesn't mean I'm opposed to the struggle against racism.

[Alonso Quijano]

That's part of the reason why I'm against national liberation struggles. But that doesn't mean I'm opposed to the struggle against racism.
Okay, so I'm not sure what we're debating about. :)