Do you support Venezuela/Chavez/Maduro

[Stalinist Speaker]

Simple question

do you support the Boliviaarian revolution? Chavez/Maduro?

[Creative Destruction]

Why don't you have an option for "I mostly support, but oppose some stuff?"

Maduro and Chavez's demagoguery gets/got annoying fairly quickly. I overall support the Bolivarian project, but there needs to be less grandstanding and more action. They set up several communes around the country and we've heard nary a word about their progress and how they compare to Caracas or the other big cities.

[Comrade Jacob]

I currently support them over-all but Maduro really needs to slam capitalist skulls and not just pinch them.

[John Lennin]

As i said before: i only support the working class.

[Stalinist Speaker]

Why don't you have an option for "I mostly support, but oppose some stuff?".

just a little in between option

[Stalinist Speaker]

As i said before: i only support the working class.

well obviously but does Maduro support the working class? if not why?

[Tim Cornelis]

The Bolivarian revolution is a revolution within the confines of capitalist society and I think it demonstrates the futility of reformism. I support developments of workers' empowerment but believe these need to become autonomous from the Bolivarian government and ultimately assume control in its place, if necessary turn against it. I support the creation of an independent labour movement pushing Bolivarianism beyond its bourgeois scope.

Ultimately, I fully oppose the Bolivarian government but it can be a useful instrument in furthering class struggle and therewith communism (though the largest trap is Bolivarianism fostering dependence on bourgeois government). Though this position could also qualify as "i support them in some areas, but i mostly oppose".


well obviously but does Maduro support the working class? if not why?

Does Obama support the working class? I suppose he does. That's not really what communists should be concerned with as we seek to self-abolish the working class, not support it in its existence. The Bolivarian government stands in the way of the emancipation of labour, but also provides possibilities for the working class to turn against it.

[Stalinist Speaker]

[
The Bolivarian revolution is a revolution within the confines of capitalist society and I think it demonstrates the futility of reformism. I support developments of workers' empowerment but believe these need to become autonomous from the Bolivarian government and ultimately assume control in its place, if necessary turn against it. I support the creation of an independent labour movement pushing Bolivarianism beyond its bourgeois scope.

Ultimately, I fully oppose the Bolivarian government but it can be a useful instrument in furthering class struggle and therewith communism (though the largest trap is Bolivarianism fostering dependence on bourgeois government). Though this position could also qualify as "i support them in some areas, but i mostly oppose".


couldn't the same thing be said about Belarus? after al they are both in almost the same position.

[Tim Cornelis]

[


couldn't the same thing be said about Belarus? after al they are both in almost the same position.

No they're not. Belarus is not creating instruments for workers' empowerment, quite the opposite (trade union busting for reasons of capital accumulation). There are no participatory communal councils and no workers' cooperatives. These instruments need to be 'hijacked' by an independent workers' movement and, if necessary, turned against the Bolivarian state. In other words, the Bolivarian government can be useful for preparing instruments which can be redirected against bourgeois class rule and potentially themselves. Belarus is not providing any such instruments.

[Hrafn]

To quote the Epic Rap Battles of History: "Awwwh sieg heil no."

[sixdollarchampagne]

As far as I can tell, the current Bolivarian Republic is a bourgeois state, with a market economy, without public ownership of the means of production or a planned economy. None of that corresponds to the needs of working people, since the bourgeoisie has not been defeated and dispersed. So, no, I don't support bourgeois rule anywhere, and, despite all of Chávez' flatulent rhetoric over a decade and a half, the bourgeois republic remained unscathed. From where I sit, all chavismo is, is a bunch of talk, totally insubstantial, all sizzle, no steak, so to hell with chavismo.

[RO17]

The government is stilled ruled by a elitist government and has done nothing besides set up communes, this is a step in testing different ways a communal society can work - but his flaunting rhetoric is often wrong.

[Queen Mab]

I currently support them over-all but Maduro really needs to slam capitalist skulls and not just pinch them.

Why on earth would that be in his material interest? He's running a bourgeois state.

[Bala Perdida]

I support Venezuela's struggle against imperialism, but I too feel that the Bolivarian Revolution is not going far enough. I guess the inconvenience is they still have to relay on a global capitalist economy since they can't produce everything (technology mainly). I congratulate the government for raising the living standard and helping to create jobs through farmlands. I also have sympathy for Chavez since his 1992 coup was attempted to overthrow an oppressive military government, but this revolution isn't strong enough. Last I heard Maduro is a vote away from gaining authoritarian powers, not a dictator of course, but more power than he has now.
I still miss Chavez and his entertaining speeches, though.

[Moofy Chewbacca]

It's a state in conflict. Revolution is a process, and I think Chávez understood that. Maduro's main issue is that he's acting too slow.

Is the United Socialist Party is a true vanguard party? Well, no. But it's something better than what we've seen in the region hence forth.

So fuck it, maybe I'm a revisionist Chavista chauvinist. Get over yourselves!

[RevolucionarBG]

How strange is that government of Venezuela is getting more support on this forum than government of Belarus...

And neither of them aren't Communist...

Cynicism? Brainwashing about Eastern Europe? I can't explain it...

And yeah, I support Maduro and Venezuela's government!

[LiamChe]

I support Venezuela and Maduro. While I wouldn't consider Maduro fully a Socialist, he and Chavez have fought off global imperialism and have build a progressive nation.

[Sinister Cultural Marxist]

I support decisions made by their government that build working class power. I oppose decisions made by their government that hinder working class power.

Or is that too nuanced for you people? Do you just want something simple? Something cut and dry?

[Tim Cornelis]

How strange is that government of Venezuela is getting more support on this forum than government of Belarus...

And neither of them aren't Communist...

Cynicism? Brainwashing about Eastern Europe? I can't explain it...

And yeah, I support Maduro and Venezuela's government!

Venezuela has a sound electoral system, Belarus does not.
Belarus arrests people for clapping, Venezuela does not.
Belarus engages in union busting, Venezuela does not.
Venezuela has communal councils and workers' cooperatives for workers' participation.

It's like saying that if there's more support for Venezuela than Iran it's because of "brainwashing". No, it's that these are qualitatively different administrations with diverging policies.