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View Full Version : Leftist militants claim Golden Dawn killings as rally honours 1973 uprising



KurtFF8
17th November 2013, 21:03
Source (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/17/leftist-militants-golden-dawn-killings-rally-uprising)



As demonstrators commemorate anniversary, anti-establishment leftists vow to move far-rightists to 'the dustbin of history'
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/About/General/2013/11/17/1384706683594/Greeks-mark-Athens-Polyte-009.jpg Athens: protesters commemorate a 1973 student uprising that led to the overthrow of a military dictatorship. Photograph: Orestis Panagiotou/EPA

Thousands of Greeks, marking the 40th anniversary of the Athens Polytechnic uprising – an event that would trigger the end of military rule in Greece (http://www.theguardian.com/world/greece) – took to the streets on Sunday after socialist militants claimed responsibility for the murder of two members of the extremist Golden Dawn party (http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/nov/16/golden-dawn-shootings-group-claims-responsibility).
As demonstrators prepared to commemorate the symbolic date, a previously unknown group of anti-establishment leftists raised the political temperature by vowing to relocate the far-rightists to "the dustbin of history".
"The Militant People's Revolutionary Forces assumes responsibility for the political executions of … the neo-Nazis," said the gang in an 18-page proclamation sent to a local news portal.
"The armed attack-response … is the starting point of the people's campaign to send the neo-Nazi scum of Golden Dawn where they belong, the dustbin of history."
Amid heightened fears of escalating violence in the debt-stricken country, the assailants described the drive-by shootings as retribution for the fatal stabbing of Pavlos Fyssas, a leftwing rapper killed by a self-confessed Golden Dawn supporter in September. And, in chilling language, warned more attacks would follow.
"The revolutionary movement has to proceed with the material destruction of the infrastructure of Golden Dawn and in a coordinated [fashion] attack those who belong to it … their heads should be cracked open with a hammer, their hands cut off, by way of example, with a sickle."
Some 8,000 policemen were seconded to patrol the boulevards of Athens as a sea of Greeks paid tribute to those killed when the military junta sent a tank crashing through the polytechnic's gates to repress a student revolt.
At least 24 are believed to have died in the bloody suppression with most of the casualties among the 150,000 non-student civilians who had converged on the streets outside the campus in an unprecedented display of opposition to the regime.
For a nation that has become increasingly polarised in the midst of economic crisis, the event is a defining moment, hallowed in the minds of many as the catalyst of the collapse of seven years of military rule only decades after a brutal left-right civil war.
"The mood this year is very similar to 1973 when there was a feeling that the junta was disintegrating and people were full of expectation," said Panos Garganas, a prominent leftist and editor of the newspaper Workers Solidarity.
"After five years of worsening levels of austerity and poverty there is a sense that things are coming to an end, that the situation cannot continue," he told the Guardian as he marched through the streets. "We give the government six months at most."
Dissatisfaction with an administration called to enforce deeply unpopular spending cuts in return for international funds to prop up the country's moribund economy has been reflected in rising support for the radical left main opposition Syriza party.
A poll released on Saturday showed the neo-fascist Golden Dawn also gaining in strength in the aftermath of the November 16th attack, which saw two of its members gunned down outside a local party branch in Athens.
Despite accusations of being a criminal organisation – and a government crackdown that has seen its leader and two other deputies imprisoned pending trial – backing for the anti-immigrant group grew by 2.2 percentage points over the past month. With 8.8% of the vote, the far-rightists remained Greece's third biggest political force according to the survey conducted by Alcofor for the weekly Proto Thema newspaper.
As in 1973, radio broadcasts were boomed from the campus on Sunday – only this time by fired employees from the former public broadcaster ERT denouncing the belt-tightening policies of prime minister Antonis Samaras and his two-party coalition.
The protest march, which traditionally ends at the US embassy to denounce Washington's controversial support for the regime, followed two days of unusually poignant commemorations at the polytechnic, with politicians, unionists and ordinary Greeks laying wreaths at the site.
"With our country basically under foreign occupation, the slogans and lessons of the uprising are as relevant today as they were back then," said Christina Minassa, selling leftist literature at a stall outside the campus. "The battle against fascism goes on. In Greece those on the left have suffered greatly."
President Karolos Papoulias, who has become an increasingly vocal critic of the austerity meted out by the EU and IMF in exchange for aid, called the student rebellion "deeply didactic".
"The way in which they laid claim to the freedom of all of us … is deeply didactic," he said. "Their battle was decisive and dynamic but peaceful, they didn't promote violence, they suffered violence," he said in a clear reference to the resurgence of political violence now haunting the country.


Looks like this will escalate and there is a higher likelihood of violence to come.

Anti-Traditional
17th November 2013, 22:06
This isn't very clever. Do they think they can terrorise GD into submission? Can they defeat them through individual terroristic violence? What does this achieve? These deluded terrorists, these self-appointed revolutionaries contribute nothing to the class struggle.

Red Commissar
17th November 2013, 22:12
Has anyone ever heard of that group before? It's the first time I've heard of them.

Ele'ill
17th November 2013, 22:15
This isn't very clever. Do they think they can beat GD by killing all their members? What does this achieve? These deluded terrorists, these self-appointed revolutionaries contribute nothing to the class struggle.

Just out of curiosity do you feel your user name contrasts with your comment here about 'the class struggle'?

The Feral Underclass
17th November 2013, 22:17
This isn't very clever. Do they think they can beat GD by killing all their members?

Well, I mean, if they killed all their members, Golden Dawn would be pretty beat, since all their members would be dead..

Not that I'm condoning or supporting such a tactic or claiming that's what they think.

Anti-Traditional
17th November 2013, 22:21
Just out of curiosity do you feel your user name contrasts with your comment here about 'the class struggle'?

I'm not sure what you mean? Although I'd like to hear your point.
-------
TAT: Okay I have to concede you that one. Let me ask another question 'Do they think they can terrorise GD into submission? Can they defeat them through individualist terroristic violence?

The Garbage Disposal Unit
17th November 2013, 22:24
To be fair, while I've never heard of the group, it doesn't seem like they're exactly coming out of nowhere and doing this "Crazy!!!" thing in the midst of social peace, or at a low point of struggle. I mean, I'm not "on the ground" in Greece, but it seems, to me, to make sense to strike one's enemies from a position of strength. As unpleasant a ring as it has, "Kick them when they're down," is pretty Art of War 101.

Hrafn
17th November 2013, 22:28
There's been a lot of suspicion that this is a false flag operation. Not that I have anything against this.

Ele'ill
17th November 2013, 22:33
I'm not sure what you mean? Although I'd like to hear your point.

people acting outside of what might be considered a traditional set of rules regarding 'the class struggle'

Queen Mab
17th November 2013, 22:41
To be fair, while I've never heard of the group, it doesn't seem like they're exactly coming out of nowhere and doing this "Crazy!!!" thing in the midst of social peace, or at a low point of struggle. I mean, I'm not "on the ground" in Greece, but it seems, to me, to make sense to strike one's enemies from a position of strength. As unpleasant a ring as it has, "Kick them when they're down," is pretty Art of War 101.

Killing a couple of low-ranking footsoldiers isn't a kick, it's a pinprick. There's no strategy involved, it's simply revenge.

Sasha
17th November 2013, 22:47
I thought the sentence about cutting of hands with a sickle sounded very suspect, but maybe it sounds in Greek less like something a spook pretending to write an leftist comunique would come up with.

The Feral Underclass
17th November 2013, 22:51
I thought the sentence about cutting of hands with a sickle sounded very suspect, but maybe it sounds in Greek less like something a spook pretending to write an leftist comunique would come up with.

Have you seen a version in English? If so, could you link it or send it to me?

The Feral Underclass
17th November 2013, 22:53
TAT: Okay I have to concede you that one. Let me ask another question 'Do they think they can terrorise GD into submission? Can they defeat them through individualist terroristic violence?

It's a good question. I would suspect not, but I haven't read their communique or heard anything about these people until today, so I'm currently in no position to hazard an opinion.

Anti-Traditional
17th November 2013, 22:53
people acting outside of what might be considered a traditional set of rules regarding 'the class struggle'


Well the thing is I don't see this as an act of class struggle.

Anti-Traditional
17th November 2013, 22:55
It's a good question. I would suspect not, but I haven't read their communique or heard anything about these people until today, so I'm currently in no position to hazard an opinion.

It looks like an example of 'propaganda by the deed'- "The armed attack-response … is the starting point of the people's campaign''

Ele'ill
17th November 2013, 22:59
Well the thing is I don't see this as an act of class struggle.

I know

Sasha
17th November 2013, 23:04
Have you seen a version in English? If so, could you link it or send it to me?

Nope just the article above and the article linked in the first sentence.

Anti-Traditional
17th November 2013, 23:07
I know

Okay. To answer your question, no I don't see it as a contradiction. Imagine that there is a room called class struggle, these people haven't entered the room so whether or not they disobey the 'traditional rules' of the room is irrelevant.

My username isn't really meant as a political statement. Rather it was a response to those who justify certain things by saying 'but its traditional'.

Do you see it as a contradiction?

Ele'ill
17th November 2013, 23:09
has anyone heard if there was any type of verbal exchange between the shooter and the 4 GD people right before the shooting (from the 2 GD people who survived)

Sabot Cat
17th November 2013, 23:12
Murdering people of the opposition rarely helps one's cause, because it provides them martyrs to rally around. This is the way it's been for an extremely long time; one only has to look at the rise of Christianity to see the counter-productiveness of this kind of violent suppression.

Sasha
17th November 2013, 23:13
No, as far as I hear it was in everything an hit coming out of nowhere.

o well this is ok I guess
17th November 2013, 23:22
"militant peoples revolutionary forces"
oh god my sides

These deluded terrorists, these self-appointed revolutionaries contribute nothing to the class struggle. and you do, yeah?

Anti-Traditional
17th November 2013, 23:25
"militant peoples revolutionary forces"
oh god my sides
and you do, yeah?

Not as much as I should, and I never implied that I do.

adipocere
17th November 2013, 23:28
"… their heads should be cracked open with a hammer, their hands cut off, by way of example, with a sickle."
I thought the sentence about cutting of hands with a sickle sounded very suspect, but maybe it sounds in Greek less like something a spook pretending to write an leftist comunique would come up with. My thoughts exactly...sounds like something straight out of the CIA handbook. Maybe it was lost in translation...

Sabot Cat
17th November 2013, 23:29
"militant peoples revolutionary forces"
oh god my sides
and you do, yeah?

This is a tu quoque fallacy, or the appeal to hypocrisy, which is a type of ad hominem attack. Even if the contributor you were talking to was a reactionary, it doesn't dilute the underlying logic or evidence for their claims.

Queen Mab
17th November 2013, 23:35
Don't Greek security forces have a history of staging false flag attacks? I remember something about them being involved in Gladio and the strategy of tension in Italy during the 70's.

Sasha
17th November 2013, 23:51
Don't Greek security forces have a history of staging false flag attacks? I remember something about them being involved in Gladio and the strategy of tension in Italy during the 70's.

Like I said in another thread, even if this wasn't done by the state directly (and it very well might not, leftist history is full of people doing the wrong things for the right reasons) it also wouldn't mean the state isn't involved, the spooks love these kind of groups and keep their hands in them and steer them towards these kind of actions.

o well this is ok I guess
18th November 2013, 00:00
This is a tu quoque fallacy, or the appeal to hypocrisy, which is a type of ad hominem attack. Even if the contributor you were talking to was a reactionary, it doesn't dilute the underlying logic or evidence for their claims. You're right, I was out of line.
Nonetheless, i can't exactly be blamed for being a bit tired of this sort of stock leninist response, especially when the language comes straight from the 20's.
I mean, we can say, as you said, that the action creates martyr's. Regardless of whether it is true or not, the affects of truth or falsehood to the situation, it is still the evaluation of tactics based on effect, and from the viewpoint that the action, even if it is a wrong one, is a revolutionary act, or at least meant to be.
However, to merely say "it is not part of the class struggle" for its form is an entirely different sort of consideration. It's a rejection of tactics as a matter of principle.

Sabot Cat
18th November 2013, 00:06
You're right, I was out of line.
Nonetheless, i can't exactly be blamed for being a bit tired of this sort of stock leninist response, especially when the language comes straight from the 20's.
I mean, we can say, as you said, that the action creates martyr's. Regardless of whether it is true or not, the affects of truth or falsehood to the situation, it is still the evaluation of tactics based on effect, and from the viewpoint that the action, even if it is a wrong one, is a revolutionary act, or at least meant to be.
However, to merely say "it is not part of the class struggle" for its form is an entirely different sort of consideration. It's a rejection of tactics as a matter of principle.

I admire you for accepting criticisms with grace, and I concur with your general stance. This, if it wasn't a false flag operation, was a part of a class struggle that was conducted with less than ideal tactics.

KurtFF8
18th November 2013, 13:42
Like I said in another thread, even if this wasn't done by the state directly (and it very well might not, leftist history is full of people doing the wrong things for the right reasons) it also wouldn't mean the state isn't involved, the spooks love these kind of groups and keep their hands in them and steer them towards these kind of actions.

Absolutely, and even if they are completely free of infiltration, they're in part doing the work of the state just by giving the increased possibility or "excuse" for the state to crack down on both the "far left" and "far right." Then the state can come out and look as a "moderate" or "law and order" institution.

Granted it's not that simple (for example we shouldn't oppose an action because the state always looks for excuses) but this particular action isn't helpful.

Alonso Quijano
18th November 2013, 22:01
This isn't very clever. Do they think they can terrorise GD into submission? Can they defeat them through individual terroristic violence? What does this achieve? These deluded terrorists, these self-appointed revolutionaries contribute nothing to the class struggle.
GD MURDERED A MUSICIAN FOR BEING LEFTIST.

Whether this was a false flag operation or not, it's good if now they'll be scared before they murder another comrade.

You can't talk what those people did without the context.

The war is god damn on.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

BIXX
18th November 2013, 22:32
Honestly, I feel that at least these people are doing something. They killed fascists, so I don't have a problem with it.

Plus, I like that they took their own initiative in their action.

Also, to anyone saying that it just gives the state a reason to crack down on radicals- the state will find a reason no matter what, even if it's because of a situation the state itself created.

However it will be horribly disappointing if the state turns out to be the real killers, but that is more evidence to what I just said- if the state wants a reason, it'll get a reason.

RO17
19th November 2013, 03:05
The socialist should gain favour of the people, not be few and conquer all. They should bring consciousness to the masses and tell them what their chains are let them decide if they believe that the road to socialism is the correct way. But now in greece there are anarchist groups, fascist groups, and socialist groups all fighting for the greek people/power while the future of that country hangs in the balance. It is going to be interesting to see how this pans out.