The Elves

[WilliamGreen]

So I'm sure that many who know the term "The Elves" know that for a long time environmental activists have been targeted with some of the toughest sentences and investigations available.

I'm curious as to what Revleft and in particular the Sciences and Environment section think about this?

*Reason I write it up is a woman just friended me on twitter or at least her account did, shes being imprisioned for near 20 years for her activism. Activism which was purely monetary damages in nature*

[Os Cangaceiros]

They were pretty smart, I'll give them that. Covered their tracks really well and didn't leave the authorities much to work with. But they ultimately succumbed to what all such underground groups succumb to, and that's the pressure to mount increasingly larger and more dramatic actions. Like it starts out with a few sporadic arsons, then it goes to simultaneous timed arsons across state lines...by the time the core ELF group in the USA suspended their activities, they were debating whether they should start a campaign of assassinations or not, move from targeting property to targeting people.

That's a big problem with all such underground groups I think, the non-stop pressure to continue and escalate the struggle, without a clear picture of an "end game"

[WilliamGreen]

That's a really good point

do you think though that because of their work it ended up attracting a lot more attention to the moderate groups that has helped the broader environmental movement as it stands today?

[sixdollarchampagne]

If, as a comrade has pointed out, above, radical environmentalists are into arson and contemplating other acts of violence, that sounds an awful lot like the pre-revolutionary terrorists in Russia, who IIRC carried out, what's it called? "Propaganda of the deed"? One of our Russian professors, when I was an undergraduate, talked about the "unrequited love" of the terrorists for the people in Czarist Russia, since the exemplary acts of a few violent revolutionaries failed to spark a mass uprising, and I anticipate the outcome will be the same here, in the US, owing, in part, to the constant media bombardment that we face daily and the general indifference of the US population to the far left.

If radical environmentalism really is going down that path, that's a shame, because those acts will obviously trigger a brutal response from the bourgeois state against that movement. While I am no expert, it seems that it would far better for the environmentalists to seek an alliance with the labor movement here.

[bcbm]

If radical environmentalism really is going down that path, that's a shame, because those acts will obviously trigger a brutal response from the bourgeois state against that movement.

they already went down that path, the elf was very active in the mid to late 90s and early 00's, pulling off a number of high profile arsons like the one at the vail ski resort. one of the main groups of people doing it though later had a member turned by the fbi, who then taped his old friends talking about what they'd done. all except daniel mcgowan plead out, and he ended up getting less time than those who talked iirc. other activists like marie mason got much harsher sentences.


While I am no expert, it seems that it would far better for the environmentalists to seek an alliance with the labor movement here.

the 'teamsters and turtles' got together for the anti wto protests in seattle in 99 but the alliance dissolved pretty quickly after that. when it comes to issues like logging, fracing, etc the interests of labor and environmentalists unfortunately don't really seem to align.

[Os Cangaceiros]

the 'teamsters and turtles' got together for the anti wto protests in seattle in 99 but the alliance dissolved pretty quickly after that. when it comes to issues like logging, fracing, etc the interests of labor and environmentalists unfortunately don't really seem to align.

Labor and the environmentalists are pretty much at odds with each other over the Keystone XL pipeline, to cite a contentious contemporary example.

[WilliamGreen]

sixdollarchampagne

Thats quite a good point. I have to admit I never really thought of the two groups in cooperation but I'm sure despite the differences on events that may arise their may be enough commonality in ideology and thought to move forward partnerships.