Le Socialiste
13th November 2013, 23:54
Don't have to agree with the political perspective, but it does provide some interesting insights and tidbits about the situation in Egypt post-coup. I'm not going to post the whole interview (it's pretty long), but I encourage y'all to click on the link below to read on:
In this follow-up interview with leading member of the Revolutionary Socialists in Egypt, Sameh Naguib, we talk about Al-Sisi's Egypt, the new alliance around the general, what challenges face opposition parties and movements and the future of Tahrir Square ( long interview, October 24, 2013)
RB: Well a lot has happened since the last time we met, Sameh. How have you been and what is life like for the Revolutionary Socialists in Egypt?
SN: It is more difficult than any of us can ever remember, and one of the most difficult aspects is the fact that the majority of left wing and liberal intellectuals are completely in support of Egypt’s military leadership, 100 percent.
RB: This is a rather strange definition of left liberals, isn’t it?
SN: It’s a very strange definition. People who claim to be on the left… and I am not only talking about organized groups like the communist party - I am talking about writers and novelists, like Sonallah Ibrahim – intellectuals, major poets, well-known figures with a long history of democratic struggle, and standing up for people’s rights and so forth. Across the spectrum, they are all singing for the General on the same song sheet.
RB: A shift that has occurred practically overnight would you say?
SN: Overnight.
RB: We need to talk about the role of the media campaign in this shift in the political climate. We are not just talking about intellectuals are we - this campaign has won over large sections of the Egyptian people?
SN: They’ve persuaded a large part, but it is a very complicated picture. It is not that everybody is on board. However if today we tried to organise a demonstration, we would soon be attacked by organised thugs who take only five or ten minutes to show up, wherever we try.
RB: Do ordinary people also react against protests?
SN: There’s a kind of varied reaction among ordinary people. There is fear, “We don’t want any more of this: this is too dangerous.” Others say, “Enough, stop doing this. Let the military sort this out. We’ve had enough of all this”. There is a reluctant kind of support on the part of some bystanders. But today, outside the ranks of the Muslim Brotherhood, it is only seasoned activists who actually venture out to protest.
RB: So what about your relations with supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood?
SN: Again, this is very complicated. We don’t go on their demonstrations: we can’t do that. Not only because of the extreme repression but also because of the sectarian nature of many of the Brotherhood slogans and the fact that they continue to call for the return of Morsi as president, which we are against.
RB: As it is, the regime are peeling off the first and second ranks of the Muslim Brotherhood and taking them all into custody?
SN: The Muslim Brotherhood can survive that; they are huge enough and have enough depth to take these kinds of attacks. But we are not. If what survives of the organised left were hit in this fashion, we would be gone for years to come. So, the positions we take are popular enough with the Muslim Brotherhood youth. You can see that from their Facebook comments and so on. But as you might imagine, they always ask us, “why aren’t you with us on the streets?” And at the same time, on the other side, all the people who support the military accuse us of being part of ‘the Muslim Brotherhood conspiracy’. So, ours is a very isolating, indeed lonely kind of experience. We’re attacked on all sides. The Muslim Brotherhood youth want us to be on the streets with them while others are accusing us of being Muslim Brotherhood supporters. And it is extremely difficult to maintain an independent line and to keep people active in the struggle.
RB: Does this also apply to the independent trade union movement? Are they similarly divided between those two constituencies?
SN: Of course. Their main leader is a Minister now, and one of the staunchest supporters of the military regime. And that’s a huge blow to any independent trade union organization.
RB: Again, it’s a very odd reflection on ‘independent trade union organization’.
SN: Well, that’s the really sad thing. This was a serious, independent trade union movement born out of strike committees in mass strikes, in which Abou Eita was one of the foremost leaders of the struggle. And that really shows you the measure of the enormity of the betrayal that has taken place in Egypt.
RB: So, are there any constituencies out there with which to rebuild some kind of coalition?
SN: When you look at it from outside, at first sight it looks as if all there is is a sea of Sisi supporters. And that’s it. But among those who are supporters of Sisi, a closer look shows you people who have very contradictory consciousness and reasons, let alone all the expectations. And the first thing to say is that these expectations are not being met. We are four months into this coup, and there is no revival of tourism in Egypt. The railway network has been shut down for the first time in its 150-year history since the British built the network, so that this year on the feast holidays – like Christmas holidays – there were no trains to take people home. This has caused a huge amount of suffering and chaos for ordinary people. You have over three million people commuting every day by rail to Cairo for their jobs from Banha or Tanta and all the small delta towns, as you have in any major city. These people have to pay triple, maybe four times the amount of the normal fares and it takes at least twice as long using microbuses and other private means of transportation to get to their jobs. So you can imagine, this will eventually erode the high level of support people once gave to their new ‘saviours’.
RB: But maybe what is interesting about this is that had this happened under Morsi’s presidency, there would have been an absolute outcry against the Muslim Brotherhood. But under Sisi, people actually don’t respond in exactly the same way?
SN: No, they’ve given the military the benefit of the doubt. And this is where we must come back to the military and their media outlets, who have launched the most massive campaign, comparing El Sisi to Nasser, talking incessantly about the nationalist role of the army; the modernizing role of the army, the centrality of the army.
RB: Is this true of all the media outlets, public and private?
SN: All of them. Because they shut down all the Islamic media outlets and there is no independent press.
RB: Again that is an extraordinary feat - I mean the military manoeuvre in politics that has got everyone 'singing from one sheet'.
SN: It is an extraordinary feat, but I don’t think it’s sustainable.
More here (http://www.opendemocracy.net/arab-awakening/sameh-naguib-rosemary-bechler-rana-nessim/sisi%25E2%2580%2599s-egypt).
In this follow-up interview with leading member of the Revolutionary Socialists in Egypt, Sameh Naguib, we talk about Al-Sisi's Egypt, the new alliance around the general, what challenges face opposition parties and movements and the future of Tahrir Square ( long interview, October 24, 2013)
RB: Well a lot has happened since the last time we met, Sameh. How have you been and what is life like for the Revolutionary Socialists in Egypt?
SN: It is more difficult than any of us can ever remember, and one of the most difficult aspects is the fact that the majority of left wing and liberal intellectuals are completely in support of Egypt’s military leadership, 100 percent.
RB: This is a rather strange definition of left liberals, isn’t it?
SN: It’s a very strange definition. People who claim to be on the left… and I am not only talking about organized groups like the communist party - I am talking about writers and novelists, like Sonallah Ibrahim – intellectuals, major poets, well-known figures with a long history of democratic struggle, and standing up for people’s rights and so forth. Across the spectrum, they are all singing for the General on the same song sheet.
RB: A shift that has occurred practically overnight would you say?
SN: Overnight.
RB: We need to talk about the role of the media campaign in this shift in the political climate. We are not just talking about intellectuals are we - this campaign has won over large sections of the Egyptian people?
SN: They’ve persuaded a large part, but it is a very complicated picture. It is not that everybody is on board. However if today we tried to organise a demonstration, we would soon be attacked by organised thugs who take only five or ten minutes to show up, wherever we try.
RB: Do ordinary people also react against protests?
SN: There’s a kind of varied reaction among ordinary people. There is fear, “We don’t want any more of this: this is too dangerous.” Others say, “Enough, stop doing this. Let the military sort this out. We’ve had enough of all this”. There is a reluctant kind of support on the part of some bystanders. But today, outside the ranks of the Muslim Brotherhood, it is only seasoned activists who actually venture out to protest.
RB: So what about your relations with supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood?
SN: Again, this is very complicated. We don’t go on their demonstrations: we can’t do that. Not only because of the extreme repression but also because of the sectarian nature of many of the Brotherhood slogans and the fact that they continue to call for the return of Morsi as president, which we are against.
RB: As it is, the regime are peeling off the first and second ranks of the Muslim Brotherhood and taking them all into custody?
SN: The Muslim Brotherhood can survive that; they are huge enough and have enough depth to take these kinds of attacks. But we are not. If what survives of the organised left were hit in this fashion, we would be gone for years to come. So, the positions we take are popular enough with the Muslim Brotherhood youth. You can see that from their Facebook comments and so on. But as you might imagine, they always ask us, “why aren’t you with us on the streets?” And at the same time, on the other side, all the people who support the military accuse us of being part of ‘the Muslim Brotherhood conspiracy’. So, ours is a very isolating, indeed lonely kind of experience. We’re attacked on all sides. The Muslim Brotherhood youth want us to be on the streets with them while others are accusing us of being Muslim Brotherhood supporters. And it is extremely difficult to maintain an independent line and to keep people active in the struggle.
RB: Does this also apply to the independent trade union movement? Are they similarly divided between those two constituencies?
SN: Of course. Their main leader is a Minister now, and one of the staunchest supporters of the military regime. And that’s a huge blow to any independent trade union organization.
RB: Again, it’s a very odd reflection on ‘independent trade union organization’.
SN: Well, that’s the really sad thing. This was a serious, independent trade union movement born out of strike committees in mass strikes, in which Abou Eita was one of the foremost leaders of the struggle. And that really shows you the measure of the enormity of the betrayal that has taken place in Egypt.
RB: So, are there any constituencies out there with which to rebuild some kind of coalition?
SN: When you look at it from outside, at first sight it looks as if all there is is a sea of Sisi supporters. And that’s it. But among those who are supporters of Sisi, a closer look shows you people who have very contradictory consciousness and reasons, let alone all the expectations. And the first thing to say is that these expectations are not being met. We are four months into this coup, and there is no revival of tourism in Egypt. The railway network has been shut down for the first time in its 150-year history since the British built the network, so that this year on the feast holidays – like Christmas holidays – there were no trains to take people home. This has caused a huge amount of suffering and chaos for ordinary people. You have over three million people commuting every day by rail to Cairo for their jobs from Banha or Tanta and all the small delta towns, as you have in any major city. These people have to pay triple, maybe four times the amount of the normal fares and it takes at least twice as long using microbuses and other private means of transportation to get to their jobs. So you can imagine, this will eventually erode the high level of support people once gave to their new ‘saviours’.
RB: But maybe what is interesting about this is that had this happened under Morsi’s presidency, there would have been an absolute outcry against the Muslim Brotherhood. But under Sisi, people actually don’t respond in exactly the same way?
SN: No, they’ve given the military the benefit of the doubt. And this is where we must come back to the military and their media outlets, who have launched the most massive campaign, comparing El Sisi to Nasser, talking incessantly about the nationalist role of the army; the modernizing role of the army, the centrality of the army.
RB: Is this true of all the media outlets, public and private?
SN: All of them. Because they shut down all the Islamic media outlets and there is no independent press.
RB: Again that is an extraordinary feat - I mean the military manoeuvre in politics that has got everyone 'singing from one sheet'.
SN: It is an extraordinary feat, but I don’t think it’s sustainable.
More here (http://www.opendemocracy.net/arab-awakening/sameh-naguib-rosemary-bechler-rana-nessim/sisi%25E2%2580%2599s-egypt).