How many actual communist are there left in the Communist party of China?

[Comrade Jacob]

Obviously it is no longer a communist party but are there any communists amongst them? The same way you will rarely get a Labor MP that isn't a right-winger (Dennis Skinner etc).

What do you think the percentage is? I'll guess about 0-10%.

EDIT: Also how many of the 83 million members do you think are communists?

[Anti-Traditional]

Most Labour MP's aren't right wing, they are left wing. Perhaps they shift to the right once in power but I doubt their individual positions change, it's more a case of adapting to the needs of the Capitalist State.

It isn't as simple as saying left-wing=good right-wing=bad. Capitalism can be left wing too- see old style social democracy, or even the USSR.

As for China, I doubt there are any genuine Communists in the CPC, if they are they are either stupid and naive or lying.

[Anti-Traditional]

Of course if you count Maoists as Communist (I don't) then theres probably millions.

[RedMaterialist]

Of course if you count Maoists as Communist (I don't) then theres probably millions.

Ok. Are there any communists, anywhere, in the entire world?

[Anti-Traditional]

Ok. Are there any communists, anywhere, in the entire world?

Thats actually a fair question.

To answer, Yes but not many. Probably most aren't in an organisation. Those who argue for nationalisation etc... are simply advocating state capitalism. Any society based on the existence of money is Capitalist.

I would consider all 'Marxist-Leninists' to be be in support of State Capitalism because they advocate a transitionary stage of 'socialism' where the economy is under the control of the state, even if it is a so-called workers state (i.e a party dictatorship). I would also consider many trotskyists to be the same, since they advocate nationalisations etc as a form of social ownership, but some are OK. i don't deny that these people are sincere, but they are definately misguided.

Left Communists, Impossibilists, Council Communists, Situationist, Anarchists, and the so-called 'libertarian marxists' are in my opinion the real Communists.

[Hrafn]

Yes but not many. Probably most aren't in an organisation. Those who argue for nationalisation etc... are simply advocating state capitalism. Any society based on the existence of money is Capitalist.

So basically every Communist existing is an Anarchist.

Sweet heavens yes, finally someone agrees with my ego.

[Anti-Traditional]

So basically every Communist existing is an Anarchist.

Sweet heavens yes, finally someone agrees with my ego.

Other way round.

For me the Anarchist/Marxist split is mainly a matter of semantics. Marxists support the Dictatorship of the Proletariat, Anarchists don't. Yet the Marxists hold up the Paris Commune and call it a DOTP and Anarchists uphold it and say it was a stateless commune.

Later divergences are more about tactics than principle. Marxists are generally more pro-organisation, whereas Anarchists are not. Anarchists tend to support terroristic methods, or black blocks/insurrectionary riots at events whereas Marxists do not.

In principle Marxists and Anarchists have no reason not to unite. The distinction is Marxist/Anarchist not Communist/Anarchist.

[Hrafn]

Other way round.

For me the Anarchist/Marxist split is mainly a matter of semantics. Marxists support the Dictatorship of the Proletariat, Anarchists don't. Yet the Marxists hold up the Paris Commune and call it a DOTP and Anarchists uphold it and say it was a stateless commune.

Later divergences are more about tactics than principle. Marxists are generally more pro-organisation, whereas Anarchists are not. Anarchists tend to support terroristic methods, or black blocks/insurrectionary riots at events whereas Marxists do not.

In principle Marxists and Anarchists have no reason not to unite. The distinction is Marxist/Anarchist not Communist/Anarchist.

Where on earth did you learn about Anarchism? The Coming Insurrection and pre-prison Alexander Berkman? Anarcho-Syndicalism and Anarcho-Communism, the only streams of any notice, are not terroristic, nor anti-organisation, as are several other branches. And the failure of the pacifist parliamentary left to adopt the black block and similar street tactics is a grave fault indeed, one which some Marxists groups such as the Revolutionary Front in Sweden are correcting.

[Anti-Traditional]

Where on earth did you learn about Anarchism? The Coming Insurrection and pre-prison Alexander Berkman? Anarcho-Syndicalism and Anarcho-Communism, the only streams of any notice, are not terroristic, nor anti-organisation, as are several other branches. And the failure of the pacifist parliamentary left to adopt the black block and similar street tactics is a grave fault indeed, one which some Marxists groups such as the Revolutionary Front in Sweden are correcting.

Yes The Coming insurrection and Berkman, also the various other terroristic groups Conspiracy Cells of Fire etc...

I don't see why it is a grave error not to adopt the black bloc tactic?

As for Anarcho Syndicalism/Communism, they go unnoticed compared to the other insurrectionary anarchists.

[RedMaterialist]

In principle Marxists and Anarchists have no reason not to unite.

They have a very strong reason not to unite. Marxists believe that capitalism can only be destroyed through its coercive suppression by a dictatorship, a state, of the proletariat. Anarchists believe, apparently, that no state suppression is necessary to destroy capitalism, in fact, they believe if they blow up buildings capitalism will disappear.

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

Of course if you count Maoists as Communist (I don't) then theres probably millions.

Actually, if you're down with Mao you're pretty "radical and dangerous," now in China. From what I've heard.

[Alexios]

Anarchists believe, apparently, that no state suppression is necessary to destroy capitalism, in fact, they believe if they blow up buildings capitalism will disappear.

lmao just shut stop posting, please

[Trap Queen Voxxy]

lmao just shut stop posting, please

What? It's a true statement.

[RedGuevara]

How did it go from how many members are Communist to a Communist vs. Marxist rant. Its irrelevant no? And in my own opinion any Chinese Communist member who supports the current state of China is not a communist so I will not many true Communist left in the Chinese Communist party.

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[RedGuevara]

Marxist vs Anarchist* * Freaking touch screens

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[WilliamGreen]

So basically every Communist existing is an Anarchist.

Sweet heavens yes, finally someone agrees with my ego.

Lol good post

[Sabot Cat]

The Communist Party of China can't be sincerely construed as advocates for a stateless and classless society from their actions. They are state capitalists that gladly allows billionaires and those who live in poverty to coexist, with a higher or nearly as high Gini coefficient as the United States. And the wealth gap is only rising, as their unaccountable bureaucracy fails to empower workers in any way outside of tactically acknowledging them in their rhetoric.

[blake 3:17]

It is the only party to be a member of.

This is one of the basic problems of single party states -- whatever the intentions of the founding party were -- the room for negotiation is very very limited.

I had noted a left trend in CCP, but how significant it is I can't say. With some of the economic liberalization there's also been some intellectual liberalization.

I was struck by the fact that an American Trotskyist has been there several times to talk about Marxist thought and action -- albeit in an academic setting -- : http://links.org.au/node/3135

[Prometeo liberado]

Last I heard from my buddy Woodhouse was 7. Yup, call it seven. Which is kinda sweet 'cuz they can meet at each others house alternating evenly at once a week per member. Yeah 7, just don't quote on that. There's still 7 days in a week right?:confused:

[Bala Perdida]

The fact that they still call themselves a communist party is insulting. The fact that people still think China is communist because they have a brutal government is more insulting. Perhaps most insulting is the fact that most people think communist states are a thing. If they actually look at history no state has ever declared itself to be communist, they admitted they were in a "transition state", even though they appear to be frozen there. My teacher ounce uttered the phrase "communist regime" and all I could do was puzzle at contradiction.

In short the "Communist" Party of China is to corrupt to allow any real communists to exist within their walls. They are so capitalistic that they will even lend their military to Wal-Mart to escort out a person they, Wal-Mart, see as a threat.

[TheSocialistMetalhead]

I think If there's anyone out there who still believes the cpc is communist either doesn't know what communism is or is just using 'communist' as a slanderous term to paint a picture of China as a treat to the 'civilised west'. I'm talking about conservatives, if anyone was still wondering.

The answer to the question if there are any communists left isn't very hard actually. I'm sure there are some but it's quite clear the cpc can't be used as a means to our end. Therefore, the marxists who are still members of the cpc are either misguided or they've just given up on what they believe is right.

[Devrim]

I doubt there have been any communists in the Chinese party since the late 1920, maybe in the early 1930s a few were still hanging on.

Devrim

[Tim Redd]

Of course if you count Maoists as Communist (I don't) then theres probably millions.

You're way off base. Mao adamantly opposed the capitalist roaders currently in power in China. Mao lead the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution (GPCR) from 1966 to when he died in 1976, specifically to oppose those in the party who wanted restore a capitalist government and who wanted to reverse the socioeconomic path away from socialism and eventually communism. If you're truly a scientific revolutionary you would read the history of most objective progressives about the GPCR and what Mao was attempting to do.

[Anti-Traditional]

You're way off base. Mao adamantly opposed the capitalist roaders currently in power in China. Mao lead the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution (GPCR) from 1966 to when he died in 1976, specifically to oppose those in the party who wanted restore a capitalist government and who wanted to reverse the socioeconomic path away from socialism and eventually communism. If you're truly a scientific revolutionary you would read the history of most objective progressives about the GPCR and what Mao was attempting to do.

I don't think China has been anything but Capitalist for the last 100 years. The so-called restoration was nothing more than a transition from State Capitalism to a more private Capitalism.

[o well this is ok I guess]

Where on earth did you learn about Anarchism? The Coming Insurrection and pre-prison Alexander Berkman? you say this like it's a bad thing

As for Anarcho Syndicalism/Communism, they go unnoticed compared to the other insurrectionary anarchists.ohlol sure if your only encounters with anarchism are bbc features
in reality, anarcho-syndicalist types are the only ones you'll ever meet on the street

[Paul Cockshott]

There are a wide variety of political opinions in the CPC, there are Maoists, non-Maoist marxists who tend to support market socialism, social democrats, and outright neo-liberals.

[Tim Redd]

I don't think China has been anything but Capitalist for the last 100 years. The so-called restoration was nothing more than a transition from State Capitalism to a more private Capitalism.

After the 1949 revolution capitalist economic relations were certainly present, but the main pillars of the economy - large scale industry - were state controlled, which ultimately was controlled by the Communist party. This state control directed that industry to serve the cause of the liberating the peasants and working classes from the dominion of exploitation and oppression of the capitalist class. That is a central aspect of what it means to have Marxist revolutionary movement seize power. This direction was increased when the revolution moved from revolutionary new democracy to full on socialism in 1954. The purpose of the Great Leap Forward at the beginning of the socialist era was to institute cooperative and communal economics that was meant to free millions of peasants from big landlord rule and exploitation. The socialist era also saw the creation of worker's counsels in the factories to increase the sway of the working class. Again the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution was a campaign to displace those in power who would reverse the socialist direction of the country and it included waging struggle to strengthen and spread socialist revolutionary art and philosophy and politics throughout society. Anyone who denies this simply refuses to recognize the facts.