Is Cuba Socialist?

[ernestolynch]

I believe that Cuba is a Socialist state. I believe that it is possible to have Socialism in One State. I have no truck with idiotic imperialists who believe that Cuba is 'State Capitalist' or some other nonsense.

Do you believe Cuba is Socialist?

[ComradeRobertRiley]

Yes Cuba is socialist.

100% not communist

[ernestolynch]

Of course its not Communist the whole fecking world needs to be socialist before states, armies and money whithers away.

So, CRR, you support the theory of Socialism in One Country then....?

[ComradeRobertRiley]

No.

True I prefer Cuba over bush/blair/all the other retards.

But I dont think we need leaders so, i dunno.

Its a case at the moment of a lesser of two evils, if ya get what im saying.

[ernestolynch]

So yes or no - is it Socialist?

RedCeltic and a few others here do not think so...

[ComradeRobertRiley]

Yes I think Cuba is socialist

[ernestolynch]

In one country?

[The Feral Underclass]

ComradeRobertRiley


But I dont think we need leaders so, i dunno.

Yet you support Castro with fanatical venom?

[YKTMX]

Cuba is not Socialist.

[ernestolynch]

What is it then?

[Pete]

Cuba is socialist in comparison to other nations in the hemisphere (and probaly throughout the world), including Canada, but what is 'truly socialist' I can not say.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

I would say Cuba is Socialism in One Country and in a way thats the problem, it can never truly be socialism unless it is internationalist and of course could never be communist.

Though I would fully support Cuba it is hardly an ideal example of what we aim for.

[Intifada]

i agree with pete. cuba is a socialist country compared to others.

[BOZG]

Saying it is socialist compared to other countries is ridiculous? Well is Sweden socialist compared to other countries? Where do we draw the line? Is Britain socialist compared to the USA?

Cuba is not socialist anyway nor is it "State capitalist".

[ernestolynch]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2004, 08:26 PM
I would say Cuba is Socialism in One Country and in a way thats the problem, it can never truly be socialism unless it is internationalist and of course could never be communist.

So how would you advise the Cubans to 'become internationalist'? Seeing as you make out that you know more than Fidel himself and that....

[Scottish_Militant]

I support Cuba against imperialism, I also support Castro but not uncritically. I wouldn't refer to Cuba as 'socialist', it does not fit the Marxist definition of 'socialism' (those who read Marx will know this)

When Castro dies I fear for the Cuban revolution, the clique around him are not interested in the Cuban people, they want to line their pockets. This shows us the weakness of the 'socialism in one country' theory, that the death of one man can end the 'socialism' in an isolated country.

[ernestolynch]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2004, 11:35 PM
This shows us the weakness of the 'socialism in one country' theory
And your answer would be.....?

[synthesis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2004, 06:45 PM
I believe that Cuba is a Socialist state. I believe that it is possible to have Socialism in One State. I have no truck with idiotic imperialists who believe that Cuba is 'State Capitalist' or some other nonsense.

Do you believe Cuba is Socialist?
It depends on your definition of Socialist.

If you want to go back to the root meaning of the word, sure, Cuba's government benefits the people. Literacy and healthcare are among the best in the world despite the nation's horrible poverty.

Marxian Socialist? No.

It is quite simple. For a nation to be Marxian Socialist, it must industrialize first; then the workers must feel the effects of the mechanization and automation of labor through the lowering of wages, the worsening of conditions, and the increase in unemployment; then they must revolt.

This is Marxism - not Leninism. Real Marxism in the twenty-first century is, of course, 21st Century Socialism (http://www.che-lives.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=12&t=15437).

[bombeverything]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2004, 06:50 PM
Of course its not Communist the whole fecking world needs to be socialist before states, armies and money whithers away.

So, CRR, you support the theory of Socialism in One Country then....?

Oh come on. Do you government apologists honestly believe that the 'transition phase' will ever compete itself? If so, how long do we have to wait? Do you believe that the state will just whither away? Why would a so-called 'popular state' need to whither away? Quite obviously such a thing does not, and never will exist. The coercive nature of the state will always be more powerful than its protective nature. All a dictatorship of the proletariat can ever do [and has done in Cuba, and Russia and China] is replace one set of tyrants with another. Yay!

It is only when the power is in the hands of the workers that we can truly celebrate the Cuban revolution. I would consider Cuba socialist, but I put my hope in the growth of the libertarian socialists that exist in Cuba that call for direct democracy and self-government/management, and believe that Cuba could someday develop into a genuinely communist society.

[ernestolynch]

'Genuine Communism in One State'?

[bombeverything]

When did I say one state? I was simply referring to the revolutionary potential in Cuba.

[ernestolynch]

How could it be a 'Genuinely Communist Society' if EVERY other part of the world hasn't done the same?

[bombeverything]

It wouldn't. But it would be a step in the right direction. Answer my questions.

[ernestolynch]

I put my hope in the growth of the libertarian socialists that exist in Cuba that call for direct democracy and self-government/management, and believe that Cuba could someday develop into a genuinely communist society.

Just Cuba, on its own? Surely Sri Lanka, Finland and Cyprus would need to do so AT THE SAME TIME.

[redstar2000]

By economic standards, Cuba is technically a "mixed" economy...while most of the productive resources are publicly owned, a substantial portion of the tourist industry is in private hands, and that percentage is growing...as is the importance of that sector of the economy as a whole.

The Communist Party of Cuba is a "Leninist party" that rules without accountability to the Cuban working class...Cuba is USSR-style "socialist" in its political institutions. (I think the correct term would be state-monopoly capitalist despotism.)

As has been generally the case, it has "outperformed" other countries of similar levels of economic development in terms of public welfare...education, public health, assistance to other underdeveloped countries, etc. The Cuban people are considerably better off economically than they would have been at there been no Cuban Revolution or than they will be should Cuba be reduced to servitude in the American Empire in the future.

Within limits, USSR-style "socialism" "works" to develop a country with considerably less pain for the working class than capitalism.

On the other hand, there is no doubt that USSR-style "socialism" becomes inevitably corrupted. When the "great hero of the revolution" (Stalin, Mao, and probably Castro) finally dies, the corruption comes out into the open and "reforms" to restore capitalism are introduced.

If that does not happen after Castro dies, then we would have to re-examine USSR-style "socialism".

But that seems very much like "a long shot" at the present time.

http://anarchist-action.org/forums/images/smiles/redstar.gif

The RedStar2000 Papers (http://www.anarchist-action.org/marxists/redstar2000/)
A site about communist ideas

[bombeverything]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2004, 01:03 AM
Just Cuba, on its own? Surely Sri Lanka, Finland and Cyprus would need to do so AT THE SAME TIME.


That would be the ideal, yes. I never said Cuba on it's own. I don't know where you got that idea from.

[Doda_Norrmaennen]

Castro is a fucking *****.
Retarded old man he dont want the people to have access to internet such a stupid creature

[Deniz Gezmis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2004, 04:37 PM
Castro is a fucking *****.
Retarded old man he dont want the people to have access to internet such a stupid creature
That's why the internet is avalible at Havana university.
I also believe there are several internet cafes located throughout Havana.

[Bianconero]

Except for the usual 'state-monopoly capitalist despotism' rants I can very much agree with redstar2000. The means of production are, to a large extent, in the hands of the party, i.e. in the hands of the people. Due to the extreme pressure the imperialists are putting on the revolution, Cuba had to open it's borders for tourism, especially after the breakdown of their Soviet allies. These are troubled times for revolutionary socialism, large parts of 'leftist' organizations everywhere have given up their fight after the capital started to propagandize the 'new world order' after 1989. Cuba remains isolated, politically and economically. Which is the main factor for their problems.

As for Dr. Fidel Castro, he still is the symbol of the revolution. I don't think of him as a 'dictator', I believe him to be the main political agitator, the one holding powerfull speaches and officially withstanding imperialist aggression.

I agree that the revolution will have to prove it's strengh after Castro's death, these unpleasant imperialist creatures will be there to take action immediately. And they will have their local liberals and liberal leftists behind them, joining them in their choir for 'democracy' and 'freedom.'

The revolution must be carefull at this delicate stage of revolutionary struggle.

[JonP]

No, it blatantly isnt.

[marsell]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2004, 11:35 PM
I support Cuba against imperialism, I also support Castro but not uncritically. I wouldn't refer to Cuba as 'socialist', it does not fit the Marxist definition of 'socialism' (those who read Marx will know this)

When Castro dies I fear for the Cuban revolution, the clique around him are not interested in the Cuban people, they want to line their pockets. This shows us the weakness of the 'socialism in one country' theory, that the death of one man can end the 'socialism' in an isolated country.
i agree, it is socialist mostly. it has some capitalism but thats so it can trade with the capitalist countries. the soviet union has weakened it also, as it made it dependant on it, so when it collapsed cuba was put in a tough position, and so the special period was made. it is another example of the soviet union hindering true communism.

when castro dies, then perhaps all the other beurocrat stalin appeasers will come out, so that an entirely new socialist regime may get in.

[redstar2000]

Another small step backwards...

Castro greets Orthodox patriarch

The most senior spiritual leader of the Orthodox Christian faith has arrived in Cuba.

It is the first time any Orthodox Patriarch has visited Latin America in the Church's history.

Patriarch Bartholomew will consecrate a cathedral in Havana and is also expected to bestow an honour on Fidel Castro.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/americas/3418733.stm

http://anarchist-action.org/forums/images/smiles/redstar.gif

The RedStar2000 Papers (http://www.anarchist-action.org/marxists/redstar2000/)
A site about communist ideas

[革命者]

Cuba is still in a state of ongoing socialist revolution, but since no other countries are real socialist it will never become communist. I belief the 21th century will be merely the time at which more and more countries get more and more socialist ideas across, but it will not be untill the next century that a revolution, altough individual socialist revolutions may take place in this century, will start and will proof to be succesfull.

Capitalism will go down without the help of revolutions (altough they will occur), just as Marx predicted, but it will take time, lot's of time. But where free-market fails, and neo-conservatives try to gain power and corrupt the system revolutions are going to be neccesary.

Viva La revolución! :)

EDIT: And as of the orthodox cathedral, I belief he has to give up some principals to protect others which are more vital to the revolution. I admit it's a rescue attempt. But some years ago the pope visited the island and it's not as unusual as you may think after reading the article.

[革命者]

And he rather wants some orthodox influence on the Cubans, than that of people believing that politics and religion should be intensely mixed as with some Catholics.

[Comrade Zeke]

Cuba is not like a Solsicilist country sorry cant spell to good tonight.........It is more of a Fundmetalist country. Not a religious one.......A revolution one. Fidel Casro keeps the people happy because in all his speeches he talks of the glourious revolution and how it freeded them,he is right it did free them. Castro is a great leader because he is strong,and makes powerful speeches. Now the economy is more Communist the most Communitic I have seen. But the Cuban goverment is rooted in one idea......the Cuban revolution-that is why it is Fuundmetalist,And I dont want the Islams or Jeus people in here say it is religous. Religous goverments are therocracy. When Castro died we need to go to cuba to make sure that the American goverment tries to take over the Communist paradise.
Zeke :)

[mia wallace]

i think castro is trying to make cuba as socialist as it can be according to the fact that the rest of the world is mostly capitalist.

[Comrade Zeke]

does not try to take over the Communist goverment sorry. :)

[革命者]

They probably will try but fail.

the revolution will fail one day, tho. But, as in all socialist states, by reformism. You see it happening now, as Redstar pointed out.



Scotty

[18tir]

Since the 1959 revolution, the socialist government has done wonderful things for the people. Before the revolution, Cuba was practically ruled by United States and the Mafia. Most of the people were either illiterate or semi-literate. Most were hungry, sick and poor. Today, nearly 100% of the Cuban people can read and write. Health care and education is free. Nearly everyone has a job. Disease and malnutrition has been largely wiped out. Cuba is now independent and does not rely on any foreign powers. All of this despite a 40 year embargo and terrorist campaign by the US. Despite all of this, I can't deny that Cuba is ruled by a dictatorship. Fidel Castro has total control over his country. No one ran against him in the last presidential election. The people do not have much say. There are probably thousands of political prisoners.

Some on the left have supported Castro uncritically while others have attacked him very harshly. I think I stand somewhere in the middle. We should criticize the human rights situation in that country. We should call for free elections and democracy. But we should also support Cuba's socialist system. The US embargo should be lifted. The US should stop interfering in the internal affairs of that small island. The US should announce that it will never invade Cuba. When this happens, Castro would be less paranoid. He might release all of the political opponents from prison. He might possibly allow free elections. Cuba could gradually evolve into a socialist democracy.

[BOZG]

l8tir,

You do realise that the fist in your avatar is that of the British SWP, a group that considers Cuba to be state capitalist and not socialist or even a workers state?

[18tir]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2004, 08:56 PM
l8tir,

You do realise that the fist in your avatar is that of the British SWP, a group that considers Cuba to be state capitalist and not socialist or even a workers state?
I was not aware of SWP's opinions on Cuba. If they think that Cuba is state capitalist, that is their opinion. They are socialists and I am as well. I don't think differences in opinion should prevent me from using a symbol from their site.

[BOZG]

Fair enough, I thought you might have been one of those unfortunate people who's become recently active and ended up in the SWP without understanding many of their policies, like most of their membership.