Questioning the "no politics" narrative

[Fawkes]

So, after some recent events, I've been questioning my long held belief that any formal involvement in the current political system is a validation of its existence and is to be completely avoided. I'm no less an anarchist, but I've been realizing more and more that laws matter (even if pigs break them at every opportunity). And politicians are the ones that make laws. Of course, I realize that they do so in response to public pressure, but I don't think I can any more deny that certain politicians, depending on their constituencies, are more inclined to make certain laws than others.

Basically, I found out yesterday that a friend/co-worker of mine who has been missing for a week is actually in a detention center awaiting deportation. As a white kid growing up in the suburbs, it was easy for me to have this "fuck off" attitude about anything related to formal politics, but now that I'm an adult and living in a city where at least half of my friends are first-generation immigrants (many of whom are probably undocumented) and also am now facing the realities of a healthcare system that prevents me from receiving treatment prescribed by my doctor as the only possible solution, my views are changing. I mean, obviously capitalism is fucked up and will never be ideal, but we can make improvements within it for the short-term. And even if making those improvements is a tacit acceptance of the ideology of the state, it has very real impacts on real people. I don't know, what do yall think?

[helot]

I don't really care for the tacit acceptance of the state from using the ballot or anything. If you want to vote etc do so but please have no illusions that this is sufficient even to win reforms as the dictates of capital override the needs of the workers. Besides, even if it was i'd still err away from it precisely because i think there is added value in forcing reforms through mass movements than getting the same reform through the ballot, namely it's that of building a sense of collective strength, confidence and self-activity amongst the working class as opposed to having to appeal to our 'betters'.

[Fawkes]

I'm not interested in which method has more added value, I'm interested in what efforts are most likely to help my dude sitting in a detention center coming to terms with the reality he may never see his one year old daughter again.

I don't really think there's any denying that there are certain politicians far more likely to bow to our demands than others.

[Remus Bleys]

I'm no less an anarchist, but I've been realizing more and more that laws matter (even if pigs break them at every opportunity).
So, while recognizing that the state does not follow its own laws, you simultaneously believe that laws matter?

And politicians are the ones that make laws.Wrong. Politicians do not set laws, they create the details that helps the Bourgeoisie.

Of course, I realize that they do so in response to public pressure, Worker movements are stifled by reformism. To quote Bordiga:

Finally, unions became a form of class solidarity adopted by the capitalists themselves for their own class interests and aims. Moreover, under the pretext of legally recognising the labour unions, the state undertook the task of absorbing and sterilising them, thus depriving them of any autonomy so as to prevent the revolutionary party from taking their leadership.
Bourgeoisie bend to public opinion to sterilize it, not to implement it.


but I don't think I can any more deny that certain politicians ... are more inclined to make certain laws than others.
They represent other strata of the Bourgeoisie.


depending on their constituencies, How many of these "constituents" actually vote?


Basically, I found out yesterday that a friend/co-worker of mine who has been missing for a week is actually in a detention center awaiting deportation. My greatest condolences. This is truly an awful situation. This type of stuff is unacceptable. However, to stop it, you cannot use bad theory, which is why I felt the need to reply to you.

As a white kid growing up in the suburbs, it was easy for me to have this "fuck off" attitude about anything related to formal politics,That is the incorrect attitude to have. Although Sergey Nechayev's politics were shit, he did say some good things to say.

Revolutionary passion, practiced at every moment of the day until it becomes a habit, is to be employed with cold calculation
You were clearly not looking at this with cold calculation, but with 2EDGY4U teenage hipsterism.

but now that I'm an adult and living in a city where at least half of my friends are first-generation immigrants (many of whom are probably undocumented) This does not recognize the fact that when in power, all sides of the bourgeois state become anti-immigrant, despite the rhetorical fluff.

and also am now facing the realities of a healthcare system that prevents me from receiving treatment prescribed by my doctor as the only possible solution, my views are changing. The solution is not to appeal to the bourgeois state. The solution is to have an aggressive worker's movement demand these things, that will use all means necessary. A movement not tied to an individual or party in the bourgeoisie state, but one that will not sell out to this at all possible.

I mean, obviously capitalism is fucked up and will never be ideal, but we can make improvements within it for the short-term.How has reformism worked out?

And even if making those improvements is a tacit acceptance of the ideology of the state, it has very real impacts on real people. Its not a tacit acceptance of the state, it is a denial of the revolutionary character of the proletariat.

I don't know, what do yall think?I think you are following a dangerous line that will lead to overt liberalism.


I'm not interested in which method has more added value,I'm not exactly sure what you mean here, I think you are saying that you don't care about the effectiveness? But that wouldn't make any sense...

I'm interested in what efforts are most likely to help my dude sitting in a detention center coming to terms with the reality he may never see his one year old daughter again.Appealing to the Bourgeoisie won't do this. Unfortunately, there is not much you can do accept to rally around the more advanced section working class to oppose such measures, not by appealing to the state, but by brutal force. This will not only take matters into the hands of the working class but will have the added benefit of the State trying to pass reforms to sedate. But you must not be fooled. You must not be sedated. The state may let this one go. The state may say they will help "undocumented immigrants." However, realize, this is a lie used to sedate you. Only continuous agitation can help your friend. This may not help your friend. But such is life, sometimes you just can't win. Not every story has a happy ending.


I don't really care for the tacit acceptance of the state from using the ballot or anything. If you want to vote etc do so but please have no illusions that this is sufficient even to win reforms as the dictates of capital override the needs of the workers. Besides, even if it was i'd still err away from it precisely because i think there is added value in forcing reforms through mass movements than getting the same reform through the ballot, namely it's that of building a sense of collective strength, confidence and self-activity amongst the working class as opposed to having to appeal to our 'betters'. Also, this. This is brilliant, and you know it to be true.

The problem with reforms through the ballot is they are shitty, full of loopholes, unstable, and liable to change.

[Blake's Baby]

I think you, and your fellow workers, and members of your community, should be outside the detention centre (if possible), and if not at the airport your comrade is going to be deported from, handing out leaflets, engaging people in discussion about what's going on, and with a large banner saying 'give us back our friend you sick bastards (or words to that effect)'.

[adipocere]

Where would your friend be deported to?