who was the oldest person in the bible [Archive]

redstar2000

18th January 2004, 14:13

When the Jews were living in the Babylonian exile, they were "writing down" the stuff that eventually became the the first five books of the "Bible".

Naturally, they were acquainted with the local legends--it's where the "flood of Noah" story comes from, for example...as well as the "Tower of Babel".

The Babylonians had inherited from the ancient Sumerians the legend of incredibly long-lived kings that reigned before the great flood...one of them was said to have lived 60,000 years.(!)

The Jewish myth-makers thought this was simply "too much" for people to believe; thus they gave their pre-flood patriarchs more "realistic" life-spans...in the 700 to 900 year range.

Methuselah, I believe, "lived" the longest, dying at the "age" of "969".

He must have had one hell of a retirement plan. :lol:

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Le Libérer

18th January 2004, 14:51

LOL RS! Yes, it was Methuselah. Genesis 5:21
5:25 When Methuselah had lived one hundred and eighty-seven years, he became the father of Lamech. 5:26 Methuselah lived seven hundred and eighty-two years after he became the father of Lamech, and he had other20 sons and daughters. 5:27 The entire lifetime of Methuselah was nine hundred and sixty-nine years, and then he died.

For those who require a reference.

Wenty

18th January 2004, 15:08

Cain was Adam's brother.

I think Moses was the oldest, past 1000 yrs. Not sure.

Knowledge 6 6 6

18th January 2004, 15:17

man, these guys lived to be in their higher hundreds?! Doesnt this exemplify how nonsensical some stories from the bible are? How am I (a West Indian) to believe that all of humankind existed from one man and one woman? What about the natives of the lands all over the world?

Even though i'm christian, i find this extremely hard to believe...

Wenty

18th January 2004, 16:36

as a christian, you should be aware of the power of god. His ability to do the unbelievable.

I expect this post to be met with the usual amount of fervent dogma please.

Le Libérer

18th January 2004, 16:45

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 18 2004, 04:08 PM
Cain was Adam's brother.

I think Moses was the oldest, past 1000 yrs. Not sure.
Sorry Wently unless you can find a reference, Methuselah wins! :D Where were you that day in Sunday School when they taught that lesson?

And Knowledge: there are many great schisms in the Bible. Thats where your leap of faith is required.
I have found the more intelligent the person, the less the faith.

Its all just myths. Every culture has them. The thing to do is find a lesson to learn from any cultures myths or stories (including Bible stories) Thats the secret.

ComradeRed

19th January 2004, 05:37

so, the oldest guy is cain? or adam? this is too damn confusing.... :wacko:

Wenty

19th January 2004, 12:47

this forum is so full of people arrogantly asserting their beliefs. Enforcing them on other people as if its the axiomatic truth! Lets debate yes, but leave the dogma outside please.

LSD

19th January 2004, 18:46

so, the oldest guy is cain? or adam? this is too damn confusing....

The oldest man in the bible is Methusela.

This forum is so full of people arrogantly asserting their beliefs. Enforcing them on other people as if its the axiomatic truth! Lets debate yes, but leave the dogma outside please.

Yes... dogma like this:

as a christian, you should be aware of the power of god. His ability to do the unbelievable.

Misodoctakleidist

19th January 2004, 19:03

Originally posted by Knowledge 6 6 [email protected] 18 2004, 04:17 PM
man, these guys lived to be in their higher hundreds?! Doesnt this exemplify how nonsensical some stories from the bible are?
The justification used in the bible is that after adam and eve ate the forbidden fruit they became gods and lived forever, i believe those people who lived into their 900's or whatever were "taken away by god" rather than dying but aparently god was was sick of these people who lived for so long and declared that "no one will live longer than 120 years." An interesting fact is that many people have outlived 120 year, i'm curious as to how christians explain this, is there anyone on this forum who knows?

honest intellectual

19th January 2004, 20:02

Yeah, Methusalah. 969. Book of Genesis.

i believe those people who lived into their 900's or whatever were "taken away by god" rather than dying Nah, everyone died except for The Virgin Mary, who ascended into heaven. Jesus also ascended into heaven, but after he had died and risen.

An interesting fact is that many people have outlived 120 year
If by 'many' what you mean is 'one'.

LSD

19th January 2004, 20:07

Nah, everyone died except for The Virgin Mary, who ascended into heaven. Jesus also ascended into heaven, but after he had died and risen.

Moses too.

The justification used in the bible is that after adam and eve ate the forbidden fruit they became gods and lived forever

Actually, it's just the opposite. They ate from the tree of knowledge, but God(s??) kicked them out of the garden so that they wouldn't eat from the tree of life and "become like us".

honest intellectual

19th January 2004, 20:16

Originally posted by Lysergic Acid [email protected] 19 2004, 09:07 PM

Nah, everyone died except for The Virgin Mary, who ascended into heaven. Jesus also ascended into heaven, but after he had died and risen.

Moses too.

The justification used in the bible is that after adam and eve ate the forbidden fruit they became gods and lived forever

Actually, it's just the opposite. They ate from the tree of knowledge, but God(s??) kicked them out of the garden so that they wouldn't eat from the tree of life and "become like us".
Hm, I didn't know about Moses.

I think that might have been a joke about the forbidden fruit. <_< I'm not sure though. <_<

LSD

19th January 2004, 21:33

I think that might have been a joke about the forbidden fruit. I'm not sure though.

What's really great about the whole forbidden fruit thing is that the Genesis story completely contradicts the New Testament version (the whole "original sin" crap).

Honestly, not only is the Bible inconsistent with the real world, but inconsistent with itself....

Wenty

20th January 2004, 14:12

more dogma! and what i was saying wasn't! I was pointing out a belief that a christian would have if he/she believed in christianity.

RyeN

20th January 2004, 16:42

The bible is a ridiculous riddle, fabricated to give a false hope and used to conform people. So being all twisted with lies and inconsistencies, it is up to interpretation. I think maybee it was a leper or some shit like that. Its best not to take anything the bible says realisicaly, or better to just abstain from reading it eh.

cubist

20th January 2004, 17:18

Cain was ables brother son of isaac i think! isaac son of abraham.

it was methusala as Comrade riley said.

i have said it before i think the forbidden fruit is the excuse used to justify capitalism. greed is a sin it is forgiven by god becuase your just a human you can't help but Sin becuase of the forbidden fruit

it the fruit identifies the beggining of sin as a flaw inherently existing in humans sin is weakness ungodlyness failure to act as a reflection of what god intended (genesis 5.1In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;). thus makeing the human race sub human. essentially i feel it defies the existance of self worth.

wenty who cares forums are for everything to be discussed including dogma

Misodoctakleidist

20th January 2004, 17:47

wenty who cares forums are for everything to be discussed including dogma [/QUOTE]

Cain was ables brother son of isaac i think! isaac son of abraham.

I thought cain and abel were adam's sons.

cubist

20th January 2004, 17:53

maybe i know some not all doctrine

cubist

20th January 2004, 17:57

it was wrong it was adams son

Wenty

20th January 2004, 21:27

lets debate dogma then, and how it seems to be infecting lots of people here.

hazard

21st January 2004, 07:05

can't you morons read what I wrote?

ITS FUCKING CANE!!!

according to the bible, cain is still alive, EVEN TO TODAY.

which would make him like six thousand and some odd years old

Misodoctakleidist

21st January 2004, 16:02

Just becuase the bible doesn't say he died that doesn't imply that he lived forever.

LSD

21st January 2004, 21:42

can't you morons read what I wrote?

ITS FUCKING CANE!!!

according to the bible, cain is still alive, EVEN TO TODAY.

which would make him like six thousand and some odd years old

Actually Cain would have died in the flood along with everyone else.

He clearly wasn't on the ark, everyone not on the ark died....

hazard

22nd January 2004, 04:49

what part about being eternally cursed don't you understand?

see, in the flood, cane might have stowed away on the ark

or, he might have built his own ark

or, he might have been a good swimmer

or, he might have been, as part of the curse, unable to drown

or, he might have simply been drowned and then, based upon exactly how God wanted his curse to work, awoken after the flood, good as new

or, or, fuck, pick something

LSD

22nd January 2004, 15:33

what part about being eternally cursed don't you understand?

Maybe that it's not in the bible.

Let's have a look at Genesis, why don't we?

4:10
And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

4:11
And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;

4:12
When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth.

4:13
And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.

4:14
Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.

4:15
And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold.And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him.

4:16
And Cain went out from the presence of the LORD, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden.

THAT'S IT!!!!! THAT'S ALL THERE IS!!!

Now you tell me where the word "eternal shows up".

Cain died, everyone died, read the damn bible.

Misodoctakleidist

22nd January 2004, 16:34

Originally posted by Lysergic Acid [email protected] 22 2004, 04:33 PM
read the damn bible.
he's aa christian, there isn't much chance of that happening.

ComradeRed

23rd January 2004, 04:19

:wacko: so it was cain, abe's brother isaac's son, who is the oldest dude in the bible, how long did he supposedly live?

hazard

23rd January 2004, 06:34

what version of the bible was that?

LSD

23rd January 2004, 10:49

King James Bible (1611)

LSD

23rd January 2004, 10:52

Comrad Red:

The oldest person who's age is given in the bible was Methusela (age: 969).

Cain's age at death was never disclosed, so we must assume it was less.

canikickit

23rd January 2004, 15:33

The bible is just a bunch of made up stories! Methusela was actually 60,004.

LSD

23rd January 2004, 15:36

Well....yeah....but then what religious isn't?

Wenty

23rd January 2004, 16:27

The bible is just a bunch of made up stories!

Well....yeah....but then what religious isn't?

I love the casual way thats put across, as if its the obvious truth. Don't you think that i can doubt what your saying just as easily as you can doubt the validity of the bible?

canikickit

23rd January 2004, 16:59

Of course you can, but what are your reasons for dismissing what I say?
I doubt the validity of the Bible because I think the probability of someone living for 200 years plus is quite low.

The same can be said for the idea of "some guy" with a personality creating the earth in seven days.

I thought most people felt that the bible was just a bunch of made up stories. Nice stories with themes and parables and all that lark.

Who told Matthew, Mark, Luke and John what to write? How did they know these historical facts?
Who told them and why did the insist on sharing that crap with the rest of the world?

RyeN

23rd January 2004, 17:13

The bible says that everyone will live forever through jesus. so Adam being the first person created would be the oldest. However once again the bible is a lie and 100% inconsistent, so you really cant belive anything you read in that book.

Misodoctakleidist

23rd January 2004, 17:25

Parts of the bible are historicaly accurate so it isn't "just a bunch of made up stories that aren't worth reading" it's worth reading to understand the mentality of chistians if nothing else.

Jesus Christ

23rd January 2004, 20:53

and the Bible is a very good read
its like reading Lord of the Rings

Pedro Alonso Lopez

23rd January 2004, 22:46

Originally posted by Jesus [email protected] 23 2004, 09:53 PM
and the Bible is a very good read
its like reading Lord of the Rings

How so, I found it boring as fuck to be honest.

Lord of the Rings on the other hand was a good if not overrated book.

Jesus Christ

23rd January 2004, 23:40

Originally posted by Geist+Jan 23 2004, 06:46 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Geist @ Jan 23 2004, 06:46 PM)
Jesus [email protected] 23 2004, 09:53 PM
and the Bible is a very good read
its like reading Lord of the Rings

How so, I found it boring as fuck to be honest.

Lord of the Rings on the other hand was a good if not overrated book. [/b]
Well, I found it to be rather entertaining, but I guess thats me.

And any of Tolkien's work is like crack to me, I love the Silmarillion and The Book of Lost Tales.
MMM so good

Pedro Alonso Lopez

24th January 2004, 00:39

Lucky for you, I was reading Nietzsche a lot and decided to read the Bible to get a better understanding of his philosophy. Mental torture to be honest.

The Children of the Revolution

24th January 2004, 03:15

Lord of the Rings on the other hand was a good if not overrated book.

Are you kidding? It is one of the only examples of a book that's WORSE than the film! It was so damn BORING!!! Don't tell me you actually sat and read through the whole thing?

The Bible is also a little dull. The gospels are the important part, the History of the Jews I find less interesting...

LSD

24th January 2004, 03:39

The bible is fascinating as mythology

The KJB (EDIT: King James Bible, not Komitet Gosudarstvennikh Bezopastnosti) is overwritten because, well, it's 400 years out of date. Try reading a recent translation.

Sure elements are stolen from Babylonian/Sumerian/Persian/Mithric myths, but Genesis and Exodus and parts of Mark and Acts are as good as any ancient myth.

Don't you think that i can doubt what your saying just as easily as you can doubt the validity of the bible?

Yes you can.

And I can doubt that the world is round, yet strangely I will find few who will back me up on that one.

I say the bible is false because it is internally contradictory.

Give me a reason why you believe it to be true? (I really doubt you will be able to do that).

MysticArcher

24th January 2004, 04:32

" Sure elements are stolen from Babylonian/Sumerian/Persian/Mithric myths, but Genesis and Exodus and parts of Mark and Acts are as good as any ancient myth."

don't forget Egyptian mythology, that's where the got the whole Cane and Able thing, in Egypt it was Osirus and someone else (can't remember right now)

as for Lord of the Rings, I thought the first and second books were good, the last one dragged on a little, and in the movie they didn't include the part where Saruman takes over the shire, that was one of the best parts of the book

ComradeRed

24th January 2004, 04:49

yeah, and sarumon gets jumped & knifed by hobbits, sweeeeeeet. i was pissed off at that, i wanted to see it...
thanks every one for their help.

Wenty

24th January 2004, 14:50

I can doubt that the world is round, yet strangely I will find few who will back me up on that one.

I don't think you can compare that and a belief in the bible!

Anyway, my point is I wish we could all realise the falibillty of our own interpretations. If you're trying to argue against a supreme being existing and that this being created everything you can't base your argument on the bible. Even i was to accept your beliefs its no cause to doubt the existence of god. You could argue (as Muslims do) that Jews and Christians have merely misinterpreted god's word.

one last thing, i don't think the bible is supposed to be interesting! It's supposed to show us how to live our lives.

:marx:

Jesus Christ

24th January 2004, 19:31

Originally posted by The Children of the [email protected] 23 2004, 11:15 PM
Are you kidding? It is one of the only examples of a book that's WORSE than the film! It was so damn BORING!!! Don't tell me you actually sat and read through the whole thing?

Yes I did, and EVERY SINGLES ONE of Tolkiens books, all 24 of them
theyre my favorite, there is something wrong with you
:D

The Children of the Revolution

24th January 2004, 19:41

Jesus Christ, you can't be serious! (Pun intended; I'm going straight to hell for it's use though...)

LOTR was an AWFUL book; not even worthy of "doorstop" status!

You should try reading Raymond Feist's magnificent trilogy, beginning with "Magician". FAR better.

LSD

25th January 2004, 17:28

I don't think you can compare that and a belief in the bible!

Why not?

If you're trying to argue against a supreme being existing and that this being created everything you can't base your argument on the bible.

I wasn't arguing against any God (which I can do by the way), but against the Jewsish/Christian/Muslim one.

Even i was to accept your beliefs its no cause to doubt the existence of god.

My belief are that there is no God, if you accept that, then you accept that there is no God.

i don't think the bible is supposed to be interesting! It's supposed to show us how to live our lives.

The original Bible (Genesis, Exodus) was cultural mythology, oral traditions of early post-sumerian hebraics.

Of course is was meant to be interesting.

It certainly wasn't the moralizing bullshit of later books of the Bible.

Tell me, what is the "lesson" of Cain and Abel, what is the "lesson" of the sacrifice of Isaac?

So no, it isn't telling you "how to live our lives".
It's a goddamn story.
Grow up.

Pedro Alonso Lopez

25th January 2004, 19:44

Originally posted by The Children of the [email protected] 24 2004, 04:15 AM

Lord of the Rings on the other hand was a good if not overrated book.

Are you kidding? It is one of the only examples of a book that's WORSE than the film! It was so damn BORING!!! Don't tell me you actually sat and read through the whole thing?

The Bible is also a little dull. The gospels are the important part, the History of the Jews I find less interesting...

It's a very good book for its genre, that of mythology. He was a professor of mythology you know so he knew what he was doing.

I think if you can't find at least the structure and actual writing appealing then maybe reading books isnt for you.

Wenty

25th January 2004, 23:10

It is telling us how to live our lives! The ten commandments are there to keep the people of israel away from sin.

Your opinion that its cultural mythology is just that, an opinion. I also don't see why you told me to grow up. What i'm saying is in no way childish or naive, i found that particularly insulting actually.

I find your intolerance and dogma contemptuous. Oh well, nice little debate until you started insulting me.

The Children of the Revolution

25th January 2004, 23:30

It's a very good book for its genre, that of mythology. He was a professor of mythology you know so he knew what he was doing.

I think if you can't find at least the structure and actual writing appealing then maybe reading books isnt for you.

Oh, without a doubt - he certainly knew what he was talking about... just a shame he couldn't transfer this wonderful "fantasy" world he'd created into a good book! I read extensively, just so you know. And I found LOTRs to be awful. Like I say, read 'Magician' and you'll "see the light!"

Jesus Christ

26th January 2004, 00:59

Originally posted by The Children of the [email protected] 24 2004, 03:41 PM
Jesus Christ, you can't be serious! (Pun intended; I'm going straight to hell for it's use though...)

LOTR was an AWFUL book; not even worthy of "doorstop" status!

You should try reading Raymond Feist's magnificent trilogy, beginning with "Magician". FAR better.
maybe you should try reading Tolkiens other books instead of LoTR
ALL 24 of em
youll love em

LSD

26th January 2004, 05:00

t is telling us how to live our lives! The ten commandments are there to keep the people of israel away from sin.

Which Ten Commandments??

If you actually read Exodus, there are 3 different versions!!

Your opinion that its cultural mythology is just that, an opinion.

No, it isn't.

But hey! Let's be generous, maybe it isn't cultural mythology, but it's sure as hell mythology.

Otherwise, what, you think the world was made in 6 days and Giants existed and Donkeys can talk and the earth is flat??

What i'm saying is in no way childish or naive

You are believing in stories with absolutely no evidence behind them. You are living your life because some book told you to. Sounds pretty naive to me.

i found that particularly insulting actually.

Did you.

You believe in a God that orders RAPE and MASS MURDER, but a little critizism of that offends you??

Good to see your not "childish or naive"

cubist

26th January 2004, 16:41

LAD,

Of course when it comes to the Bible Christians have to adopt a a bizarre selective morality in order to justify the actions contained within its pages.

A moral code where rape, and killing innocent children, babies and the unborn are perfectly justifiable. That slavery, and treating woman like property and second class citizens are reasonable and valid. That murdering those that don't worship the same God as you are all actually displays of "love", and that they arent "evil" at all! In short, Christians like yourself appear confused as to what "evil" and "goodness" really are.

and someone else on a different forum wrote this

What do I dislike about theism?...Let me count the ways...

I dislike the hypocrisy,
the corruption,
the greed
and the lies.
I dislike the veneration of ignorance,
the glorification of idiocy,
the wild-eyed hatred of progress
and the fear of education, which send the faithful shrieking,
vampire-like, from the light of knowledge.
I dislike the way in which prejudice
is passed off as piety.
The way superstition is peddled as wisdom.
The way intolerance is raised to the lofty heights
of "Truth".
I dislike how hatred is taught as love,
how fear is instilled as kindness,
how slavery is pressed as freedom,
and how contempt for life is dressed up and adored as spirituality.
I dislike the shackles religions place on the mind,
corrupting, twisting and crushing the spirit
until the believer has been brought down to a suitable state
of worthlessness.
So lost and self-loathing, so bereft of hope or pride,
that they can look into the hallucinated face of their imaginary
oppressor
and feel unbounded love and gratitude for the additional suffering
it has declined,
as yet,
to visit upon them.
I dislike people's need for a communal delusion,
like drug addicts who unite just to share the same needle.
I dislike the way reason is reviled as a vice
and reality is decreed to be a matter of convenience.
The way common sense and ordinary human decency
get re-named "holy law" and advertised as the sole province
of the faithful.
I dislike religions' wholesale theft of any number
of ancient mythologies,
only to turn around and proclaim
how "unique" their doctrine is.
I dislike how intelligence is held as suspect
and inquiry is reviled as a high crime.
I dislike the pillaging of the impoverished,
the extortion of the gullible,
the manipulation of the ignorant
and the domination of the weak.
I dislike the invention of sins
for the satisfaction of those who desire to punish.
I dislike the demonization of unbelievers,
The ill-concealed hate of proselytizers,
The hysterical rants of holy rollers,
The wigged-out warnings of psychic healers,
The dismantling of public education via religious school vouchers,
The erosion of civil rights by theocratic right-wingers,
The righteous wrath of gun-toting true believers,
The destruction wrought by holy warriors,
The blood-drenched fatwas of ayatollas,
and the apocalyptic prophesies of unmedicated messiahs.
Most of all, though, I dislike the certain knowledge
that religion,in one grotesque form or other,will be with us so long as there is a single dark, cobwebbed corner of the human imagination
that a believer can stuff a god into.

and that your honour sums up my opinion to date

Wenty

26th January 2004, 19:02

wow, thats great. That person has given an example of how people in history have distorted the word of god.

Why are we debating this anyway?

I don't believe because of biblical stories, i don't think any christian would say they do. It has to do with answered prays and a relationship with god, amongst others.

Why can't we be more tolerant of other peoples beliefs? The vast majority of christians aren't anything like that last post said.

Anyway, this debate is obviously going nowhere.

LSD

27th January 2004, 04:42

I don't believe because of biblical stories, i don't think any christian would say they do. It has to do with answered prays and a relationship with god, amongst others.

But do you believe in the Christian, Biblical God?

Do you believe that the Bible is the word of that God?

Because so many of the things advocated in that text are reprehensible, the the belief that one is morally obligated to obey it has lead to precisely what Cephas is talking about.

vast majority of christians aren't anything like that last post said

Tell that to the victims of the Inquisition, tell it to the victims of the crusades.
Now ask yourself, how many have died in the name of Atheism?

Blind faith kills.
Religion kills.
And that 'aint dogma, it's history.

cubist

27th January 2004, 12:00

Wenty,

i used to be a christian and i believed for a multitude of reasons but the bible plays a key part in any self confessed christian, not believing the bible as a christian is the perfect example of how wrong christianity is.

so you believe in god great your welcome to? you are not a lesser being for putting your faith blindly on something that was written by human beings, but why? you say you feel him through prayer, sure i was a christian and talking to myself often made me think i was feeling something, taking ecstacy also gave me that feelingbut like god i gave up on that too.

Wenty, my family are christian i was alot of friends are they don't despise muslims murder or rape in the name of god, but that doesn't change the past. they still believe in a god who condems people to hell for not believing.

but please answer me this?

does the 1 minute old baby go to hell if it dies there and then? if everyone is born into sin surely the baby is too. Even though it doesn't no the word "in" let alone " inthe begining there was god blah blah blah" where is the justice in that?

where is the justice in all muslims who are born muslims becuase of the islamic controlled state they live in go to hell when they haven't had a chance to learn the valiant gospel of god?

Wenty

27th January 2004, 14:51

i can agree at last! lol. That is a part of christianity i have the most qualms with. I have debated it with other theists but still haven't found a satisfactory conclusion.

I agree that religion has killed also, many times. These people have obviously misinterpreted the bible the wrong way, besides i think we're a tad more civilised then back during the times of the crusades.

I think the part about being morally obliged to obey is a good one. I would respond by saying a christian doesn't obey because he feels a moral obligation but out of an inclination to praise someone who saved our sins, as well as a God who created everything (something must have created the universe, that old argument. Something must have created God too! lol). This is only my mere opinion obviously though.

Much of the old testament seems absurd by todays standards (a classic part in the west wing illustrates that) but it was a whole different time where sin was seen as a completely different thing as it is today. Also, the new testment is believed to supercede the old one but nevertheless this doesn't absolve the OT entirely (Leviticus 18:22 and many others).

cubist

27th January 2004, 15:55

you can't debate with theists as the moment you catch them out they return

"your reading it out of context" well what context am i supposed to read it in some magical context that only those that believe comprehend.

now i can answer and justify many actions in the bible except the samuel rape issue where god orders the rape of davids wives.

the murder of little midianite boys when israel defeated the midianites was justifiable as it is midianite culture to avenge your fathers death.
I understand that in those times things were different the thing is the christian faith endorses these actions and condems those that do them to the christians to hell.

STI

27th January 2004, 16:38

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 18 2004, 04:08 PM
Cain was Adam's brother.

I think Moses was the oldest, past 1000 yrs. Not sure.
No, Cain was Adam's son. He was Abel's brother.

LSD

27th January 2004, 19:05

Wenty:

I would respond by saying a christian doesn't obey because he feels a moral obligation but out of an inclination to praise someone who saved our sins, as well as a God who created everything

Well, that's pretty much a moral obligation.

Morally you feel obligated to thank God for creating the world, saving you from sin, inventing palm trees...

That is a part of christianity i have the most qualms with. I have debated it with other theists but still haven't found a satisfactory conclusion.

That's because there isn't one.

I agree that religion has killed also, many times. These people have obviously misinterpreted the bible the wrong way

Why "obviously"??

The Bible orders people to kill, so they kill. Seems like a valid interpretation to me.

You just don't like that the pure brutality of the Bible belies its immorality,
Certainly understandable,
But who's "misinterpreting"?

Cephas:

now i can answer and justify many actions in the bible except the samuel rape issue where god orders the rape of davids wives.

How about 2 Kings 2:23?
How about Judges 19:24?
How about Jeremiah 16:10?
Or a personal favorite, Genesis 19:7?

There is a lot that can't be justified.

cubist

27th January 2004, 20:38

ok i will look them up i am only justifying them through history and logic seeing as i don't believe i don't use faith.

i got one
2 kings

23 And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
25 And he went from thence to mount Carmel, and from thence he returned to Samaria.

lol brilliant i thinkit was punishment for the afor linexs where he removes the curse of bad water from the area and walks back to the city only to be mocked so he cursed them in GOD as he he healed there water in GOD.

unlucky typical immoral actions though must add that one to my list!