Why Fate is a Bunch of Crap

[fallen camarade]

I constantly hear of the belief in fate these days as new-age spirituality begins to escalate. The very idea that my life and yours is predetermined seems to me to be udder nonsense. The only reason that fate still is followed is because a childish argument can be made to every challenge to it's validity. For instance, I could say to someone who believes in fate that I choose to come on this website tonight and write this on my own free will, in the spur of the moment, and that person's response would be "No. It was your destiny. You don't know you choose it". Freaking ridiculous. This theory was created merely because there is no such thing as time travel, and if there were, there would be no one left who believed in this concept.

With that in mind, I came up with a scenario to disprove fate. I'm yet to hear a decent argument about it. I'm sure many of you rejects that enjoy picking things apart for no reason will have some fun with this, but as for the rest of you who truly want to figure something it, the scenario is as follows.....

Say you are at a fork in the road off in middle of nowhere. You look down both, and they look exactly the same, but obviously go off into two seperate directions. You can't see where they go. You have no reason to choose one or the other, but by random choice, you take the right path. You walk down this path for a little while, and all of a sudden, you meet a horribly gruesome death that was in no way avoidable. Death was going to happen down that path no matter what. By some sort of miracle, time rewinds back to the point where you are gazing down the lengths of the fork in the road. The only thing different thing this time, is you know remember what had just happened to you. Hear's the kicker. What path do you choose?

Here, let me answer for you. Unless you are a complete retard, you choose to go down the left hand path. For all you know, the left hand path could hold a death ten times worse, but that is not the point. The point is that all you know, is that if you go down the right hand path, you will die, and you don't know what is down the left hand path. Certain Death, or....something else. Hmm, what a difficult choice.

The point is that you choose to go down the left hand path. He or she that believes in fate would be forced to say, "Well, I guess I'd just go down the right path again because fate said so". No one in their right mind would go down that path knowing what awaited them, whether you believe fate or not. Obviously backwards time travel is impossible, but again, that isn't the point.

I'm interested to hear any challenges, commendations, or comments about this. I'm willing to accept defeat, but I feel pretty solid about this. Go ahead and write what you feel. You have the choice.

[New Tolerance]

hehe.

Maybe it's your "fate" to go back in time and go down that different road. ;)

jk.

ok, well, depends on the exsistance of randomness, how do you prove that there is such a thing?

[fallen camarade]

Hehe...well, randomness as in being unsure. Like if someone had two identicle bottles of soda, there would be no reason to choose one or the other. You just take one. Maybe randomness wasn't the best word to describe it, but same idea.

[New Tolerance]

Originally posted by fallen [email protected] 18 2004, 03:04 AM
Hehe...well, randomness as in being unsure. Like if someone had two identicle bottles of soda, there would be no reason to choose one or the other. You just take one. Maybe randomness wasn't the best word to describe it, but same idea.
But in that scenario, prehaps you are right or left handed, and that more useful arm of your might be closer to one of the bottles and you subconciously reach for that closer one. In which case that action was kind of predetermined.

Also if they are at the same distance from your useful arm, since they can not occupy the same space in time, they exsist at different angles in relation to your arms, your arm might be more conformtable moving at a certain angle and move to the bottle that is closer to that angle. In which case the action was also kind of predetermined.

If both of your arms are equally good, you will probably use the one that you always used for other things before, how many people that you know that can use both hands equally as good, use them at a 1:1 ratio?

Well, basically the point is, in order for this "random" thing to work, everything will have to be equal in relation to each other so that non would be more favorable than the other (both hands equally as good, both bottles equally as far). That would also mean that the human body will have to be completely symmetrical in all directions (equal in weight and ability, you will have to have eyes on all sides of your head, you wouldn't be much of a human being anymore), although this exisistance is theortically possible, in our reality this is not the case, one side of our body weights more than the other and that might affect us in certain actions (Such as choosing the bottle on the right, because the right side of your body is a bit heavier with more organs, and it is easier to turn right, and that's what caused you to pick the bottle on the right, because it is easier to tilt that way).

I will probably agree with you that there is no such thing as determinism if we something that indicates that it is possible that everything can be symmetrical and all options looks equally as good.

[hazard]

fc:

your analogy is senseless

fate would, by its nature, necessarilly include your "time rewind" component, and so the proper path would be selected anyway

FATE is a concept that is more or less a description of the transition of time. unlike time, fate cannot be measured, but it is ridiculous to not believe in it.

[Umoja]

I tend to think Time Travel is possible, but only going forward in time like we're all doing now. :D

I'm a heavy believer in "fate". Every situation does only happen once, so there is only one possible outcome for it, and thus that was the outcome that was supposed to happen. It's slightly confusing, but that's why I have problem with Statistics being taught (although I've yet to do much besides qualify for the course), it assumes that there is a chance for something to happen which means that they are saying an event happens in a given circumstance a certain ratio of times.... What sense does that make?

[ComradeRed]

it was your fate to write this post, hehehe. seriously, it's cause and effect, but every effect is a cause, that cause creates an effect, so on and so forth. i agree fate is bullshit.

[MysticArcher]

fate tends to be something people use to explain the parts of their lives that sucked, same kind of thing as "god's plan" I mean sometimes there's luck or some rare events that cause you to go 'why did this happen like this' but I don't think fate influences everyday life
so my answer to is there fate is a yes,but kind of answer

Umoja "it assumes that there is a chance for something to happen which means that they are saying an event happens in a given circumstance a certain ratio of times.... What sense does that make?"

I think the problem is statistics is assuming every time you repeat an event it will be the exact same, for example flipping a coin, you assume every flip is exactly the same, so that could fit into your view of fate in that events aren't really repeatable so it would be measuring the ratio fate decides one or another of the possible choices

at least that's the best way I could explain it

[New Tolerance]

I think people might have different definations for the word fate here. By fate people could mean that things are "planned" by something, but by fate people could also mean that it is not planned but you just don't have control always.

[Umoja]

I only take fate to mean, that something only happens once, and since it happens once that's the way it was supposed to happen.

[Rasta Sapian]

first of all, don't deny yourself of free will, U will come to points in your life where you will have to make choices, regardless of your choices the final outcome will undoubtably be your fate :)

If the path you choose leads you to suffering and anguish, or eternal bliss, your choice is irrelivant, it will be your fate regardless.....

In your life you will discover coincidences, people you know or meet along the way, The connections you make will influence your life, this is also fate, although fate is in your hands, if you believe in it or not. :unsure:

peace yall

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

While there are some things beyond your control, you have more control over your life than you think.
Nobody else is stopping you from breaking the law except you yourself.

[RedAnarchist]

Fate is a load of nonsense. You cannot have your life dictated to you by some presence called Fate. You choose your own paths in life

[AC-Socialist]

You DO make the decissions, but after you have they are recorded in fate. As time is a constant, in future you will make choices you dont know of now. These spiritiualists con you by calling this fate, seperating this and your choice, but they are fundementaly the same thing. Agree?

[Rasta Sapian]

I totally agree, however fate and free will can both exist together in the same reality, time constant of course. :ph34r:

But in the end, once your life goes back to the earth, like a book being closed
you look back on your life only to see that the book was written by U.R. Fate

peace yall

[Don't Change Your Name]

Fate sucks. The road of our life is made up by our decisions and we can't go back in time to change them. We build the path of our life, it wasn't built before. However the time creates some of those roads we go through.

[Umoja]

I can't prove the existence of Free Will, infact I think it makes more sense that our minds have created the illusion of free will. Time only moves in one path, so I don't see why it's so hard to say our life moves in one path. Yes, our lives are being dictated by a Parthenon (I hope that's the right word) or gods. They are called time, space, with the minor dieties of physics and math.

[Inti]

Fate exists and its all the same for everything living.. you will all die.. me included of course.. its our fate

[STI]

Well, a belief in fate makes life easier. It helps to believe that you won't get hit by an 18- wheeler next time you go outside because you weren't meant to. Just because it makes things easier, though, doesn't mean that it exists...

[Freiheitfuralle]

Fate is a human invention, just like a hammer, it is a tool.
A hammer drives a nail into a wall or wood.
Fate takes responsibility for your life so you dont have to.
It is a clever invention, but it is a ficticious concept and nothing else.

If sombody close to you dies a good friend may comfort you with fate or a pint of ice cream and a blanket. Both are only mildly effective.

A loved one dies and grandma agatha says, "well, it was his time to go. It was just fate." You still miss that person but hey! IT WAS JUST FATE! NOTHING CAN BE DONE! I HAVE NO CONTROL!

Fate is a tool used to take take responsibility for people who are too weak to accept full responsibility for their lives. I personally dont need clever inventions such as fate, religion, destiny.
Anything that isnt under my control like death, and the weather,
I live with it! :)

[Invader Zim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2004, 04:54 AM
fc:

your analogy is senseless

fate would, by its nature, necessarilly include your "time rewind" component, and so the proper path would be selected anyway

FATE is a concept that is more or less a description of the transition of time. unlike time, fate cannot be measured, but it is ridiculous to not believe in it.
your religion is also sensless, but we give up trying to tell you that...

Fate is actually something that is supposed to happen directed by some higher being. Which wold imply that god exists. However if this is true then the future exists as a controlable world like the presant. And if it is being controlled by god then our actions are predetermined, which means freewill is none existant.

Which even the religious people deny.

fate is a heap of shit.

[Elect Marx]

"No fate but what we make" --A phrase from Terminator II, good stuff from a mainstream movie :o "come with me if you want to live" :marx:

[Individual]

I am in no way religious. However fc's "proof" of how fate is false, does nothing to prove fate.. For one you can not use something that is not of this world (as in travelling back in time after dying) to disprove anything.

That is like saying I can prove aliens are real: just pretend you saw one... Get what I'm saying?

On top of that, even if your story could be real, and you came back to life, this could have been your fate. Your fate could have known that you would have come back and been able to make another decision. Fate would also be very complicated. Theoretically fate is real. Think about this. There is no time travel, there is no way to change anything. So what is to say that everything you do isn't fate. Fate isn't necessarily driven by a higher power, it may be directed from what you do. Fate could be defined as life really. There is no knowing what would have happened had you done something else. Because everything you have done is final, what is to say that this was your fate. Therefore everything you do is fate. There may be no reason to this fate, it was just fate.

I am not arguing for or against fate, for it is mind boggling. However your arguement proves nothing. I am just trying to open a new door instead of saying "fate is crap, but I have nothing to back that up except I am atheist"