What defines a liberal?

[Klaatu]

What defines a liberal? What defines a socialist?

How are they the same, and how are they different?

[G4b3n]

Before FDR, the term "liberal" was rather vague and had many Pseudo-enlightenment qualities. Today, it means to stand for the establishment of equality under capitalism (I know, I know, don't laugh). Liberals see equality as something that can be established by government regulation in order to remove the traditionally inhumane aspects of capitalism (I guess we just haven't found the right combo yet).

As for a socialist, that is just a word that has been completely "evacuated of content" as Chomsky put it. Personally I define it in the traditional sense, anyone wishing to see the public ownership of the means of production.

[xxxxxx666666]

From the merrian-webster dictionary:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/liberal

"lib·er·al

adjective \ˈli-b(ə-)rəl\ : believing that government should be active in supporting social and political change : relating to or supporting political liberalism
Liberal : of or belonging to the liberal political party in countries like Canada and the United Kingdom
: not opposed to new ideas or ways of behaving that are not traditional or widely accepted




Full Definition of LIBERAL

1
a : of, relating to, or based on the liberal arts (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/liberal%20arts) <liberal education>
b archaic : of or befitting a man of free birth

2
a : marked by generosity : openhanded (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/openhanded) <a liberal giver>
b : given or provided in a generous and openhanded way <a liberal meal>
c : ample (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ample), full (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/full)

3
obsolete : lacking moral restraint : licentious (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/licentious)

4
: not literal or strict : loose (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/loose) <a liberal translation>

5
: broad-minded (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/broad-minded); especially : not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/orthodoxy), or traditional forms

6
a : of, favoring, or based upon the principles of liberalism (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/liberalism)
b capitalized : of or constituting a political party advocating or associated with the principles of political liberalism (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/liberalism); especially : of or constituting a political party in the United Kingdom associated with ideals of individual especially economic freedom, greater individual participation in government, and constitutional, political, and administrative reforms designed to secure these objectives
— lib·er·al·ly adverb
— lib·er·al·ness noun


Examples of LIBERAL



She is a liberal Democrat who married a conservative Republican.
She has a liberal attitude toward sex.
He made a very liberal donation to the museum.
Many fishermen keep their holes from freezing over with liberal injections of antifreeze. —Time, 28 Feb. 1974
[+]more (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/liberal#)



Origin of LIBERAL

Middle English, from Anglo-French, from Latin liberalis suitable for a freeman, generous, from liber free; perhaps akin to Old English lēodan to grow, Greek eleutheros freeFirst Known Use: 14th century"







Ok, end quote from the dictionary.

In a nutshell, I see it as begin open to change, begin generous, and I proudly call myself one.

Nevertheless, I know that some people here see it as an, sorry the term, "bad word"

And so, for those who this may apply, and to those who just want to put in some thoughts, would like to know what your definition is.

And here's "socialist":

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialist

so·cial·ist

noun \ˈsō-sh(ə-)list\ : a person who believes in socialism
Socialist : a member of a political party that supports socialism





Full Definition of SOCIALIST

1
: one who advocates or practices socialism (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/socialism)

2
capitalized : a member of a party or political group advocating socialism
— socialist adjective often capitalized
— so·cial·is·tic adjective
— so·cial·is·ti·cal·ly adverb

http://www.merriam-webster.com/styles/default/images/reference/external.jpg See socialist defined for English-language learners » (http://www.learnersdictionary.com/search/socialist)

Examples of SOCIALIST



<a lifelong socialist who never lost faith in his cause>



First Known Use of SOCIALIST

1827

[tuwix]

What defines a liberal? What defines a socialist?

How are they the same, and how are they different?

Liberals refer their ideology to freedom. Socialist to equality, although the root of word means 'society' but if we suppose that power given to society as whole thing will cause taking over richness from rich, it makes perfect sense.

Liberals stress freedom and socialists stress equality. Some liberals (especially Anglo-Saxon ones) say about equality. IMHO undeniably it has its origin in Proudhon's "What is property?" where author states that lack of equality denies freedom because inequality causes submision 'hav-nots' to 'havs'. I've never heard or written anyone who really logically have denied it.

But today liberals are considered in terms of economic freedom basing on impossible according to its own definitions term - free market. This is so-called neoliberalism. It's no longer related to equality. Furthermore, it causes more and more inequality. According to Proudhon perspective they're not liberals at all.

But where the to concepts meet? Of couse, in anarchism, It's combination of both. The author of a word anarchism who was Proudhon was describing himself as socialist and his critics of property has made him socialist, but he was considered as liberal. In his times every socialist or communist was just liberal.

Why they did separate? I think Stalin and his students have made biggest shift. In state capitalist country word liberal started to be conisdered as reactionary. But the question is: Was Stalin socialist at all? IMO, no.

[Queen Mab]

Liberalism is a philosophy that is concerned with maximising the liberty (however defined) of the individual. That's probably the simplest (and simplified) way to put it.

[Yuppie Grinder]

Socialism as defined by Marx and revolutionaries generally:
1. A distinct mode of economic production in which the means of production are held in common, marked by an absence of private property and markets.
2. The revolutionary movement towards definition 1.
Liberalism:
1. An ideology rooted on belief in the rule of law, equality before the state, property rights, the free market, representative government, and the belief that it is the purpose of that government to protect the lives and property of it's citizens. Since the English, French, and American revolutions, Liberalism has rapidly spread to become the dominant ideology of the bourgeois west. Important thinkers in the history of the movement include Thomas Hobbes, Adam Smith, John Locke, James Madison, and Thomas Paine.

Before FDR, the term "liberal" was rather vague and had many Pseudo-enlightenment qualities. Today, it means to stand for the establishment of equality under capitalism (I know, I know, don't laugh). Liberals see equality as something that can be established by government regulation in order to remove the traditionally inhumane aspects of capitalism (I guess we just haven't found the right combo yet).

As for a socialist, that is just a word that has been completely "evacuated of content" as Chomsky put it. Personally I define it in the traditional sense, anyone wishing to see the public ownership of the means of production.

What do you mean "public ownership"?

[Yuppie Grinder]

Liberals refer their ideology to freedom. Socialist to equality, although the root of word means 'society' but if we suppose that power given to society as whole thing will cause taking over richness from rich, it makes perfect sense.

Liberals stress freedom and socialists stress equality. Some liberals (especially Anglo-Saxon ones) say about equality. IMHO undeniably it has its origin in Proudhon's "What is property?" where author states that lack of equality denies freedom because inequality causes submision 'hav-nots' to 'havs'. I've never heard or written anyone who really logically have denied it.

But today liberals are considered in terms of economic freedom basing on impossible according to its own definitions term - free market. This is so-called neoliberalism. It's no longer related to equality. Furthermore, it causes more and more inequality. According to Proudhon perspective they're not liberals at all.

But where the to concepts meet? Of couse, in anarchism, It's combination of both. The author of a word anarchism who was Proudhon was describing himself as socialist and his critics of property has made him socialist, but he was considered as liberal. In his times every socialist or communist was just liberal.

Why they did separate? I think Stalin and his students have made biggest shift. In state capitalist country word liberal started to be conisdered as reactionary. But the question is: Was Stalin socialist at all? IMO, no.

Dog I really don't mean to be a dick but a lot of these things you're saying are really unfounded or overly simplistic. Stalin does not represent a break between socialism and liberalism. Socialism represents a break between socialism and liberalism. I don't think you can simplify ideas as broad as liberalism and socialism into liberalism = freedom, socialism = equality. While those words are used in many different ways, there are core concrete ideas behind them.

[adipocere]

In US politics, a liberal is a person who would otherwise be a socialist, but who has not been exposed to (directly or indirectly) enough social and economic oppression to begin to seriously question 12+ years of plutocratic capitalist indoctrination.

A conservative is a person who, given the same socio-economic circumstance as the liberal plus religion, is too empathetically unsophisticated to give a shit about anything but themselves and their own. Under even slight socio-economic pressure, conservatives morph effortlessly into fascists.

(A libertarian -the mathematical remainder of capitalism after the two are unevenly divided- is one whose own cognitive dissonance leaves them ranting incoherently in the outfield)

Liberals and conservatives are the same in that both of them will bicker incessantly over wedge issues while the ruling class quietly plunders their wealth and runs roughshod over the entire planet. They are different in that they blame everyone else and each other for it.

I doubt this was the low-brow answer you were looking for, but the news is full of mayoral and governor election results and perennial status quo.

[Firebrand]

Basically a socialist is a type of leftist, usually one who to a greater or lesser degree holds to marxist principles in some form or other. They come in both reformist and revolutionary forms, but all believe that a. Capitalism is damaging to people, and b. that it is important to offer some form of opposition to capitalism hurting people

A liberal is a fence sitter who combines good intentions with an unwillingness to rock the boat in any significant way. They generally deal with the inherent conflict of interest between the good of humanity and the needs of capitalism by metaphorically sticking their fingers in their ears and going lalala this isn't happening.

[RevolucionarBG]

xxxxxx666666

WOW! This is great explanation. You gave everything from social-political ideas to linguistic meanings. This will be very useful for everyone.

About the topic:
Liberal - relating to or having policies or views advocating individual freedom.
Socialist - A person who believes in an equal and communally beneficial system of government.

That's one of the easiest way to put it. But then we could do analysis of their ideas of personal freedom, social welfare, state-interventions in economy, influence of the government, question of private property, nationalization...
But as a "newbie" on this forum, I think this would be enough.

[cyu]

One of my favorite quotes: A liberal is someone too poor to be a capitalist and too rich to be a communist.

...not really serious, but has its own truths.

Some categories of liberals (but not limited to these):

1. Capitalists that believe in using the welfare state to prevent anti-capitalist revolution.

2. People who mean well, but due to their society's scaremongering propaganda against communism, think communism can't work.

3. People who don't think about politics much, but are scared by what they believe to be extremes. Moderates.

4. People who want to see change, but only slow change. Those with no immediate fear of eviction or not being able to afford end-of-life care.