Social progress deepens in Venezuela

[boiler]

Former trade union leader, Nicolas Maduro, marks six months as Venezuela’s President in October, a period marked by measures to consolidate and deepen the remarkable social progress that took place in Venezuela under President Hugo Chávez.

Since becoming President, Maduro has faced the formidable task of both leading the government and facing an emboldened, anti-democratic right wing seeking to undermine, and ultimately overthrow, the country’s progressive government.

Since Maduro’s narrow election victory in April, Venezuela’s right-wing opposition have carried out a protracted campaign to discredit the legitimacy of Maduro’s presidency, both domestically and internationally. In this they continue to be emboldened by the hostile stance of the US administration to Venezuela, which is now the only major international power not to recognise Maduro’s win. Over the summer, Samantha Power – the Obama administration’s nominee to the UN – characterised Venezuela as a “repressive regime” which she vowed to stand up to.

Thankfully, this campaign to destabilise Maduro’s government has suffered setbacks both domestically and internationally. One element of this has been the launching of a new of new popular and progressive initiatives.

One such initiative is the ‘Street Government’ programme, aimed at promoting grassroots, community organisation and political participation at a community level to tackle everyday problems .Pursuing this, Maduro and his cabinet travelled to every state to meet with both grassroots organisations and regional officials.

The programme has approved numerous projects ranging from environmental issues to new infrastructure to tackling crime, allocating more than 63 billion bolivars ($10 billion). Additionally, over the summer President Maduro revealed a far-ranging new initiative to consolidate and expand the dozens of social programmes (known in Venezuela as missions.)

This new ‘National System of Missions’ seeks to improve the efficiency of the social welfare policies introduced in recent years. It also aims to find ways, including creating a new set of statistical indicators, to measure more accurately the gains made in education, health care and food security.

President Maduro has promised to continue funding these social missions with the same vigour that marked Chávez’s presidency. This saw budgets for key areas such as health, education and poverty reduction programmes protected even during the global recession.

Maduro has observed that Venezuela has “the resources to invest in all areas. We know what we want to achieve, how we’re going to achieve it, and where we’re going.” He pledged completely eliminate poverty in the country by 2019. Venezuela has already cut overall poverty in half and extreme poverty from 17% to 6.9% since 1998, receiving special recognition by the UN for its achievement.

These initiatives seem to be gaining Maduro support domestically. A survey conducted by pollster Hinterlaces reported that 62% favour the “Street Government” initiative and 57% view the administration positively.

A further poll by International Consulting Services registered 65% believing that President Maduro’s performance has improved from good to excellent during his first 100 days.

This progress is most welcome but nonetheless the right-wing opposition – with continuing US support – is clearly continuing its campaign to destabilise the country’s elected government.

In recent weeks – as Venezuela marked the 40th anniversary of the coup against Allende in Chile – enquiries have found elements of the right-wing opposition guilty of an oil refinery fire prior to the 2012 presidential election and right-wing sabotage behind some recent power black outs. We know from the coup in 2002 and oil lock out of 2003 that the Venezuelan right-wing is more than capable of such ‘dirty tricks’. President Maduro himself warned of the right’s aim to create a month of ‘total collapse’ through destabilisation in the run-up to regional elections in December.

Our international solidarity remains as vital as ever – the Venezuelan revolution needs our support!

The Venezuela Solidarity Campaign is amongst the organisers of the annual Latin America Conference at Congress House on Saturday December 7. Speakers include Jeremy Corbyn MP, Victoria Britain and Chris Williamson MP.

http://www.systemiccapital.com/social-progress-deepens-in-venezuela/

[tuwix]

Facts deny this nice image built by governement of Venezuela.
According to Wikipedia unemployment in Venezuela in January was 9.4%. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Venezuela)
According to Venezuelan governement, it was 7.8% (http://www.vtv.gob.ve/articulos/2013/10/25/ine-desempleo-en-venezuela-se-ubico-en-7-8-durante-el-mes-de-septiembre-videos-2045.html).
It is huge for a country calling themselves socialist. When Poland was calling themselves so (neither correctly), the unemployment was counted below 1%...

Besides Venezuela has great income inequality. This inequality is comparable very much that of USA. In this case Venezuela is very far away from classical capitalism countries as France, Australia or UK. Those undeniably capitalist counytries are obviously more equal than Venezuela (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality).

[Remus Bleys]

Facts deny this nice image built by governement of Venezuela.
According to Wikipedia unemployment in Venezuela in January was 9.4%. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Venezuela)
According to Venezuelan governement, it was 7.8% (http://www.vtv.gob.ve/articulos/2013/10/25/ine-desempleo-en-venezuela-se-ubico-en-7-8-durante-el-mes-de-septiembre-videos-2045.html).
It is huge for a country calling themselves socialist. When Poland was calling themselves so (neither correctly), the unemployment was counted below 1%...

Besides Venezuela has great income inequality. This inequality is comparable very much that of USA. In this case Venezuela is very far away from classical capitalism countries as France, Australia or UK. Those undeniably capitalist counytries are obviously more equal than Venezuela (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality).
While this is true, I think its funny you say "facts" and then cite wikipedia.

[bluemangroup]

While this is true, I think its funny you say "facts" and then cite wikipedia.

This. As such sources, if I had decided to use them in a hypothetical research paper on The Venezuelan Bolivarian movement, would've made my paper appear frivolous.

That being said, its clear that Venezuela isn't a true socialist state a la the USSR or the People's Republic of China, but it has made progress and through its efforts to cut back on poverty and to remain progressive in the midst of a reactionary right its pointing the way to what socialism could look like in a country such as Venezuela.

Hence I fully support the organized left in post-Chavez Venezuela.

Long live Venezuela's Bolivarian Revolution! :)

[Crabbensmasher]

I get the feeling this government relies on keeping the elites in power. The 'class struggle rhetoric' is exactly that; rhetoric. It's their image, it's how they garner votes. It's worked since the late 90s and their still going with it. Simply a climate of blame with no follow through.

It seems that, in reality, their image falls apart beyond that. If they were to actually remove the elites from power, there would be nobody to blame, and suddenly, the ruling party would seem pretty damn silly. And beyond that, I'm not even going to mention socialism, because, as we all know by now, they aren't socialists.

Of course, they have the missions, the welfare, the poverty campaigns, but their real front line is a strong-mouthed brash image. That's probably why Maduro only narrowly won the election. A lot of people aren't voting for the welfare, they're voting for the aggressiveness. The nationalism, the bold Chavismo image. Seems kind of similar to people voting for Sarkozy, Putin or Berlusconi. It's for the image, the aesthetics. People like that kind of shit.

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. Just an idea.

[Red_Banner]

The good thing that Venezuela did was they provided Cuba with undersea cable connections for internet.

The capitalist media will claim that the reason why people didn't have internet access in Cuba is because of "oppression".

But in reality Cuba didn't have access to the internet due to the US embargo and the US denying acces to it's cables.

[TheSocialistMetalhead]

I think you're being a little too optimistic here. While social reforms should be supported, they are nothing more than the name implies: reforms. As revolutionary socialists we should in fact realize that Chavists do not represent what most of us strive for. Chavez was hardly a marxist and i think the same can be said of many of his followers. In the end, Venezuela deserves the same treatment the USSR and (early) PRC did, one of critical solidarity. While their opposition to imperialism and capitalism are commendable, they do not and did not embody a true socialist society.

[La Guaneña]

Facts deny this nice image built by governement of Venezuela.
According to Wikipedia unemployment in Venezuela in January was 9.4%. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Venezuela)
According to Venezuelan governement, it was 7.8% (http://www.vtv.gob.ve/articulos/2013/10/25/ine-desempleo-en-venezuela-se-ubico-en-7-8-durante-el-mes-de-septiembre-videos-2045.html).
It is huge for a country calling themselves socialist. When Poland was calling themselves so (neither correctly), the unemployment was counted below 1%...

Besides Venezuela has great income inequality. This inequality is comparable very much that of USA. In this case Venezuela is very far away from classical capitalism countries as France, Australia or UK. Those undeniably capitalist counytries are obviously more equal than Venezuela (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality).


Tell me where they consider themselves socialist. Just tell me. Maduro just delcared war on the "parasitic bourgeoisie". No Bolivarian supporters clame Venezuela is a socialist country, friend, not even the PSUV.

And inequality is a harsh reality in Venezuela, recognized and fought by the parties in the GPP, without exeption. Venezuela is at the heart of North American imperialism, and suffers of one of the worst cases of dutch disease, with huge amounts of power in the hands of the speculative compradors.

And I love your statistics and economic positions, I swear this is something I could read next week on Veja, our very own Fox in magazine form.


I get the feeling this government relies on keeping the elites in power. The 'class struggle rhetoric' is exactly that; rhetoric. It's their image, it's how they garner votes. It's worked since the late 90s and their still going with it. Simply a climate of blame with no follow through.

It seems that, in reality, their image falls apart beyond that. If they were to actually remove the elites from power, there would be nobody to blame, and suddenly, the ruling party would seem pretty damn silly. And beyond that, I'm not even going to mention socialism, because, as we all know by now, they aren't socialists.

Of course, they have the missions, the welfare, the poverty campaigns, but their real front line is a strong-mouthed brash image. That's probably why Maduro only narrowly won the election. A lot of people aren't voting for the welfare, they're voting for the aggressiveness. The nationalism, the bold Chavismo image. Seems kind of similar to people voting for Sarkozy, Putin or Berlusconi. It's for the image, the aesthetics. People like that kind of shit.

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong. Just an idea.

Comrade, I'm sorry but I have to point this out: to someone in Latin America, your speach sounds like the rabid right that screams that the PT in Brasil only has welfare and poverty campaigns to blame the rich and get votes from the poor.

I understand this was not your intention, so I would like to point out that the Bolivarian "Revolution" is not keeping the current elites in power to have a ragdoll to beat at. The current elites are struggling for power, as it can be seen in the mainstream media outlets or how the comprador bourgeoisie is hiding and stocking products, to lower offer, jolt prices up and create shortages, venting it in the pre-mentioned media to hit Maduro hard.

Therefore, Maduro is arming up to 2mi millitiamen and women, that are at this moment locking up retail store owners, confiscating and distributing electrodomestic and basic necessity products, and creating a state-owned infrastructure company, with a projection of buying 5k trucks from Brasil and China. That comes together in the bunch with the counter-hegemonic free-access Bolivarian Universities and Schools, and the National Food Soverigny and Security Program, being conducted inside these universities with EMBRAPA.

So there you go, if you think these problems are just an ellectoral tool, fine. I think this is actual institutional combat going on inside the bourgeois state.

[tuwix]

Tell me where they consider themselves socialist. Just tell me.


I've heard it in Telesur.



And I love your statistics and economic positions, I swear this is something I could read next week on Veja, our very own Fox in magazine form.


I'm not against Bolivarian Revolution but I've just pointed out it's very insuficient. Maybe it's fear of foreign military intervention that is undoubtly real, but the facts show that Venezuelan reality isn't as sweet as their propaganda says. And propaganda is done the best of all things. I love watching Telesur and it gives real alternative in news TV. And I'm grateful of that for Venezuela. But numbers show that authorities have been doing not enough for poor people in this country.

[Crabbensmasher]

Tell me where they consider themselves socialist. Just tell me. Maduro just delcared war on the "parasitic bourgeoisie". No Bolivarian supporters clame Venezuela is a socialist country, friend, not even the PSUV.

And inequality is a harsh reality in Venezuela, recognized and fought by the parties in the GPP, without exeption. Venezuela is at the heart of North American imperialism, and suffers of one of the worst cases of dutch disease, with huge amounts of power in the hands of the speculative compradors.

And I love your statistics and economic positions, I swear this is something I could read next week on Veja, our very own Fox in magazine form.



Comrade, I'm sorry but I have to point this out: to someone in Latin America, your speach sounds like the rabid right that screams that the PT in Brasil only has welfare and poverty campaigns to blame the rich and get votes from the poor.

I understand this was not your intention, so I would like to point out that the Bolivarian "Revolution" is not keeping the current elites in power to have a ragdoll to beat at. The current elites are struggling for power, as it can be seen in the mainstream media outlets or how the comprador bourgeoisie is hiding and stocking products, to lower offer, jolt prices up and create shortages, venting it in the pre-mentioned media to hit Maduro hard.

Therefore, Maduro is arming up to 2mi millitiamen and women, that are at this moment locking up retail store owners, confiscating and distributing electrodomestic and basic necessity products, and creating a state-owned infrastructure company, with a projection of buying 5k trucks from Brasil and China. That comes together in the bunch with the counter-hegemonic free-access Bolivarian Universities and Schools, and the National Food Soverigny and Security Program, being conducted inside these universities with EMBRAPA.

So there you go, if you think these problems are just an ellectoral tool, fine. I think this is actual institutional combat going on inside the bourgeois state.

They're locking up retail store owners to curb inflation. The stores were selling at prices to keep up with inflation. The government wants a frozen price to help stop the spiral. They're doing this in Argentina with basic foodstuffs if I'm correct. I honestly don't believe they would have done this under normal circumstances.

I would want to believe Venezuela is undergoing a socialist revolution, and of course, I believe they deserve our support, but to back them outright would entail turning a blind eye.

I think Maduro (And Chavez before him) is starting to understand the limits within a capitalist framework. There's really nowhere to go from here. He's not going to nationalize the country, as he doesn't have the support for it. He doesn't have a plan to transition the country into socialism, and even trying that would entail suicide.

It will be really interesting to see where this goes within the next 10 years, but I just can't see much further transition with Maduro in power.
That being said, I genuinely believe the beginnings of class consciousness are being formed in Venezuela. The spark has been lit, and that legacy will hopefully burn for decades to come. Of course this was spearheaded by Chavez and Maduro, but by the nature of his position, he cannot carry it much further. The real actors from here on out are the Venezuelan people.

[La Guaneña]

I've heard it in Telesur.



I'm not against Bolivarian Revolution but I've just pointed out it's very insuficient. Maybe it's fear of foreign military intervention that is undoubtly real, but the facts show that Venezuelan reality isn't as sweet as their propaganda says. And propaganda is done the best of all things. I love watching Telesur and it gives real alternative in news TV. And I'm grateful of that for Venezuela. But numbers show that authorities have been doing not enough for poor people in this country.

Not even the PSUV claims socialism, they defend the "Consolidation of Bolivarian Socialism by 2030". They defend that they are building this sort of socialism. Not that I stand with them on that one, though.

Now on the doing enough for the poor, you should look at the statistic results of the Robinson I and II Missions, along with Ribas and Sucre. Venezuela is also firmly walking towars the universalization of healthcare (dream on, murricans), erradication of illiteracy, one of the most elevated HDIs in Latin America, the universalization of retirment pensions, erradication of hunger and has undergone the most intense land reform process in the XXI century in Latin America.



They're locking up retail store owners to curb inflation. The stores were selling at prices to keep up with inflation. The government wants a frozen price to help stop the spiral. They're doing this in Argentina with basic foodstuffs if I'm correct. I honestly don't believe they would have done this under normal circumstances.

I would want to believe Venezuela is undergoing a socialist revolution, and of course, I believe they deserve our support, but to back them outright would entail turning a blind eye.

I think Maduro (And Chavez before him) is starting to understand the limits within a capitalist framework. There's really nowhere to go from here. He's not going to nationalize the country, as he doesn't have the support for it. He doesn't have a plan to transition the country into socialism, and even trying that would entail suicide.

It will be really interesting to see where this goes within the next 10 years, but I just can't see much further transition with Maduro in power.
That being said, I genuinely believe the beginnings of class consciousness are being formed in Venezuela. The spark has been lit, and that legacy will hopefully burn for decades to come. Of course this was spearheaded by Chavez and Maduro, but by the nature of his position, he cannot carry it much further. The real actors from here on out are the Venezuelan people.

Well, all I've got to say is that I agree with you, except on the inflation part. This inflation is far from "natural", it comes from the compradors holding stuff in depos to jolt up the prices, similarly to what happened with Allende and the trucks. But this times Maduro has militias, another progressive elemento of his government.

[tuwix]

Now on the doing enough for the poor, you should look at the statistic results of the Robinson I and II Missions, along with Ribas and Sucre. Venezuela is also firmly walking towars the universalization of healthcare (dream on, murricans), erradication of illiteracy, one of the most elevated HDIs in Latin America, the universalization of retirment pensions, erradication of hunger and has undergone the most intense land reform process in the XXI century in Latin America.


Nonetheless, the still have unemployment 7-8% according toi their own data and income inequality is similiar to that in the USA and highly gareater than some very capitalist countries...

[Crabbensmasher]

Well, all I've got to say is that I agree with you, except on the inflation part. This inflation is far from "natural", it comes from the compradors holding stuff in depos to jolt up the prices, similarly to what happened with Allende and the trucks. But this times Maduro has militias, another progressive elemento of his government.




I don't know enough about inflation, but I doubt it's a conspiracy of retailers and imperialists (especially given that inflation in Venezuela in the pre-Chavez era was higher:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v294/montages/venezuela_inflation_1991_2007.jpg

)



Its*

Let's just borrow this chart from the other Venezuelan thread

As you can see, inflation was much higher during the pre-Chavez days, when a pro-US government was in power. This means that it is entirely possible to achieve this through economic mismanagement.

I'm a bit of an amateur with economics myself, but let's just go through the possible causes for inflation.

1. Printing money - This seems a bit unlikely, as the government would have no motivation to devalue their currency (imports are actually rising, as opposed to exports)

2. Shortages - This seems a bit more likely. Didn't I hear something in the news awhile ago about toilet paper shortages? I think it's entirely possible, that through some fluke, a certain commodity was brought to a shortage. Of course then, the media went crazy, everybody started hoarding it, and the price got driven up. This probably happened on more than a few occasions. Obviously, the right-wing media encouraged speculation, but I'm guessing it was originally a slip up by the government. When there's an inflation spiral, EVERYBODY starts hoarding. Your monthly paycheck could become devalued a week from when you receive it. Everybody is in a frenzy to spend now, spend now. This creates shortages, further aggravating the problem. I don't think it's a conspiracy of people holding goods in a warehouse, I think it's consumers being scared.

[La Guaneña]

Nonetheless, the still have unemployment 7-8% according toi their own data and income inequality is similiar to that in the USA and highly gareater than some very capitalist countries...

If this means anything, they do have the lowest gini index in Latin America, having a hard reduction since '98, comrade. They are currently at 0,39, IIRC.


2. Shortages - This seems a bit more likely. Didn't I hear something in the news awhile ago about toilet paper shortages? I think it's entirely possible, that through some fluke, a certain commodity was brought to a shortage. Of course then, the media went crazy, everybody started hoarding it, and the price got driven up. This probably happened on more than a few occasions. Obviously, the right-wing media encouraged speculation, but I'm guessing it was originally a slip up by the government. When there's an inflation spiral, EVERYBODY starts hoarding. Your monthly paycheck could become devalued a week from when you receive it. Everybody is in a frenzy to spend now, spend now. This creates shortages, further aggravating the problem. I don't think it's a conspiracy of people holding goods in a warehouse, I think it's consumers being scared.


Comrade, I'm not saying it isn't due to a shortage, I am asking what is causing the shortage? Venezuela still haves a very low industrial production index, and is currently investing heavy money on infrastructure to help the "bolibourgeoisie" to get on it's feet and start producing shit nationally.

Now I ask you, in a country highly dependent on it's comprador bourgeoisie to get what it needs that is industrializing, and therefore threatening these people's power, could anyone be possibly be doing this on purpouse? History tells us that yes, such as the rich ass motherfuckers that hid food in '17 in Russia, or the other rich mother fuckers that stopped nearly all of Chile's trucks in 1972, funded by the CIA.

So who is to blame? And what should Maduro do? Let these assholes create insatifaction and shortages, so that the yankee-friendly media can channel it against his government? NO WAY.

[tuwix]

If this means anything, they do have the lowest gini index in Latin America, having a hard reduction since '98, comrade. They are currently at 0,39, IIRC.


Cuba has better GINI coeffcient (0.30), but isn't included in the most reports.

[La Guaneña]

Cuba has better GINI coeffcient (0.30), but isn't included in the most reports.

My bad, I meant South America. I guess the point still stands, though.

[FSL]

Comrade, I'm not saying it isn't due to a shortage, I am asking what is causing the shortage? Venezuela still haves a very low industrial production index, and is currently investing heavy money on infrastructure to help the "bolibourgeoisie" to get on it's feet and start producing shit nationally.

Now I ask you, in a country highly dependent on it's comprador bourgeoisie to get what it needs that is industrializing, and therefore threatening these people's power, could anyone be possibly be doing this on purpouse? History tells us that yes, such as the rich ass motherfuckers that hid food in '17 in Russia, or the other rich mother fuckers that stopped nearly all of Chile's trucks in 1972, funded by the CIA.

So who is to blame? And what should Maduro do? Let these assholes create insatifaction and shortages, so that the yankee-friendly media can channel it against his government? NO WAY.

You mention a 2 million strong "workers' army" that is being built as we speak. And from my understanding and also from what you said about an "institutional combat within the bourgeois state" the armed forces are also faithful to the government.

So the government could do a very simple thing, today even. Outlaw capitalist property and by doing so found a socialist republic in Venezuela. Let the workers write a new constitution, transfer the powers of the parliament and the presidency to recallable worker representatives etc.


What it is going to do and what it has been doing for 15 years now (that's a pretty significant amount of time, don't you think?) is probably just occupy a warehouse or two, maybe nationalize a factory (paying its former owners) and leave the majority of the economy in the hands of the capitalists it accuses of trying to sabotage it?
Does it make much sense?


Just because the "rabid right" as you call it is crying over "excessive handouts", it doesn't mean we should unconditionally support a "false left".
There wouldn't be any need for handouts, there wouldn't be any rampant inequality and there wouldn't be any systematic hoarding if those capitalists responsible went where kings and slaveowners have gone before them.


Of course, this is even worth discussing only in cases like Venezuela or Chile a few decades ago, when there does seem to be some genuine will for change.
No such thing exists in the case of Brazil. I wouldn't say there even is such a thing as a "welfare state" in Brazil no matter what the right opposition would like to believe. There is inequality surpassing iirc that of the US, there are army batallions sent into poor neighbourhoods to combat crime and there is a huge amount of public funds used to support sections of the local bourgeoisie. Just because the rightist opposition in Brazil is more closely tied to other sections of the bourgeoisie, we shouldn't just jump in support of the policies of the current government.
As you know, even Obama is considered a communist by the "rabid right". Thankfully, we are not the rabid right and we don't have to think like them, naming "comrade" just about any bourgeois politician who opens up the state's wallet to give pennies to the millions of poor and millions to the thousand rich.

[La Guaneña]

You mention a 2 million strong "workers' army" that is being built as we speak. And from my understanding and also from what you said about an "institutional combat within the bourgeois state" the armed forces are also faithful to the government.

So the government could do a very simple thing, today even. Outlaw capitalist property and by doing so found a socialist republic in Venezuela. Let the workers write a new constitution, transfer the powers of the parliament and the presidency to recallable worker representatives etc.

Comrade, things are not that simple. Venezuela still suffers under the control of a powerful comprador class, that also has strong relations to the media monopolies. But I seriously don't expect Maduro to do that right now, their strategy I believe is to weaken the compradors by fomenting a national industry.

There is still a big, strong reaction in Venezuela, and the Communists there (PCV) do not feel strong and confident enough to call an insurrection, and I trust their judgement on that one.



What it is going to do and what it has been doing for 15 years now (that's a pretty significant amount of time, don't you think?) is probably just occupy a warehouse or two, maybe nationalize a factory (paying its former owners) and leave the majority of the economy in the hands of the capitalists it accuses of trying to sabotage it?
Does it make much sense?


Just because the "rabid right" as you call it is crying over "excessive handouts", it doesn't mean we should unconditionally support a "false left".
There wouldn't be any need for handouts, there wouldn't be any rampant inequality and there wouldn't be any systematic hoarding if those capitalists responsible went where kings and slaveowners have gone before them.

Reading back on my posts, I guess the ultraleft ambience of RL makes me seem like I'm too close to the PSUV.

The reason why the Venezolan and Latin American communists support the current government, and participate in it is frankly because it exposes the contradictions in the bourgeois state, taking bougeois democracy to its limit.

In the last 15 years, Venezuela has nationalized it's key strategic resource, and is steadily walking towards overcoming dutch disease by building major industry centers and developing a food soverignty program. This has weakened severely this "rabid right".

What is happening right now, and at this point I agree with you and our venezolan comrades, is the bourgeois state gettting very close to tipping point. Or putting it how Luxembourg and now Meszáros brought up after a period of stagnation: socialism or barbarie.

Chavez was clearly not a Marxist, and Maduro doesn't look much better. But they created an eviroment where the working classes could be agitated, organized and are now being armed. They created a counter-hegemonic university system, allthough insufficient in view of the existing university system.

So my support is not exactly a belief that socialist will come through this slow, full of reforms path. Either this tipping point will be reached and the working class will be called to take point, or they will notice by themselves, knock out the PSUV and do shit the right way.



Of course, this is even worth discussing only in cases like Venezuela or Chile a few decades ago, when there does seem to be some genuine will for change.
No such thing exists in the case of Brazil. I wouldn't say there even is such a thing as a "welfare state" in Brazil no matter what the right opposition would like to believe. There is inequality surpassing iirc that of the US, there are army batallions sent into poor neighbourhoods to combat crime and there is a huge amount of public funds used to support sections of the local bourgeoisie. Just because the rightist opposition in Brazil is more closely tied to other sections of the bourgeoisie, we shouldn't just jump in support of the policies of the current government.
As you know, even Obama is considered a communist by the "rabid right". Thankfully, we are not the rabid right and we don't have to think like them, naming "comrade" just about any bourgeois politician who opens up the state's wallet to give pennies to the millions of poor and millions to the thousand rich.

Now here I agree with you 100%. The PT had nearly all of its progressive elements washed down by the alliance policies, and deserve no support from actual communists. Along with the military takeover of the favelas and the UPPs, that you mentioned, I could also align this with the ZERO land distributed by land reforms, lowest rate since the end of the 80s and the selling of our oil wells to foreign investors.

The progressive character of a few programs, such as the bringing in of 6000 cuban medical staff is washed away by the criminal attack to the Public Health System's heart, the national auditing system, and so on.

[n0b0dy]

Why doesn't Maduro decree socialism? Well, because you can't! You can't build socialism against the people. You can't decree self-organisation. That's a contradiction in terms.

The state can only be a facilitator of the process from below. The communal councils, local structures of self-administration, emerged in 2005. Until now there are over 30.000. The focus is now on the over 1000 comunas under construction, higher level structures for larger projects. The goal is to gradually replace the bourgeois state with a "communal state". Maduro said the communes should be the "new economic power" and key structure of socialism. When enough cummunes are established they will be able to coordinate and control companies together with the workers (which is already happening in some places).

But it's a long process to develop the new "communal state" from below and as long as you don't have consolidated communas and communal cities in the whole country you still need old representative institutions. If you abloish the old before having created the new, the vacuum tends to be filled by bureaucracy. Thats the lesson from all leninist revolutions. You have to keep in mind that Chavez startet as a social-democrat and spoke about socialism the first time in 2005/2006. Just recently there was the first national congress of cummunes as well as the first national congress for workers control. Building a strong working class movement for workers control takes time, but it is on the way. Most people in Venezuela have a stronger identification with the community than with their workplace. However, the Plan Guayana for example aims to restructure the heavy industry in Guayana and establish full worker control in this sector until 2019.

Price speculation is a real problem. There are companies who get dollars via the cheap exchange rate but sell their products for prices like on the black market. Thats why they found profit margins up to 1000%. At the beginning of his term it seemed like Maduro would be more moderate to capitalists, but now he started an offensive. In the words of minister Eduardo Saman (libertarian Marxist): "The fun is over"

[Darius]

Every socialist should support Venesualan government. They're doing some serious socialist progressive reforms and taking the fight directly to the ruling class speculators.

[Greek Warrior]

Every socialist should support Venesualan government. They're doing some serious socialist progressive reforms and taking the fight directly to the ruling class speculators.
Totally agree!

[FSL]

I guess I'm really late with the answer but anyway.


Why doesn't Maduro decree socialism? Well, because you can't! You can't build socialism against the people. You can't decree self-organisation. That's a contradiction in terms.

At the beginning of his term it seemed like Maduro would be more moderate to capitalists, but now he started an offensive. In the words of minister Eduardo Saman (libertarian Marxist): "The fun is over"
That's a contradiction in your post.

If the people in Venezuela don't want socialism, what are we even talking about?
And if they don't want socialism, then how come self described "libertarian marxists" became ministers?

If the majority in Venezuela doesn't want socialism, then people who do should probably be voted only by a minority. And spend their time trying to convince everyone else that socialism would solve their everyday problems and that it would be a new, better course for the country.

What you're saying is that marxists and communists get voted in office by people who want capitalism and that these marxists then preside over all sorts of market manipulation incidents and just general capitalist exploitation, all the while talking about their love for a fairer society.

What's the point?

Coluna Prestes above spoke of the strength of the rulling class. A strength that isn't found either in the army or in the working class.
Well, the only source of strength they have then is in their property. Really, if what you're saying is correct their property is now all they have. Why not remove it from their hands?
Revolutions are leaps not tiny steps. Tiny steps lead to revolutions.
I'm not convinced that more than a decade of tiny steps, thousands of councils, a loyal army and a 2 million strong reserve later, the situation is still not "ripe enough" to move forward.

[La Guaneña]

I guess I'm really late with the answer but anyway.


What's the point?

Coluna Prestes above spoke of the strength of the rulling class. A strength that isn't found either in the army or in the working class.
Well, the only source of strength they have then is in their property. Really, if what you're saying is correct their property is now all they have. Why not remove it from their hands?
Revolutions are leaps not tiny steps. Tiny steps lead to revolutions.
I'm not convinced that more than a decade of tiny steps, thousands of councils, a loyal army and a 2 million strong reserve later, the situation is still not "ripe enough" to move forward.

Now I guess we have come to agree!

I just don't know exactly if the venezolan bourgeoisie has "nothing but their property". Of course they still have power in many institutions, including the armed forces.

Now, about giving the leap and not the tiny steps, I'll have to agree with you and say that the fate of a revolution that gives smaller and smaller steps is eventually stopping and being destroyed. Venezuela is getting to the point where a socialist revolution is a necessity for the continuation of the progressive aspects brought up by the bolivarian process.

It seems like the next year will be a year of great struggle between the government and the oposition, but also inside the government, between those factions that support this institutionalization that is slowing the process at a considerable place and those that believe that it is necessary to struggle outside of the bourgeois state as well.

I just don't think that it is time for the communists there to become opposition, that would weaken them very much, and only give more maneuvering power to the PSUV inside the coalition. I guess that the PCVs old motto remains: "With Chavez, despite Chavez".

[Venas Abiertas]

A lot of us are wondering why Maduro doesn't simply take the next logical step and seize bourgeois property and turn over the means of production to the Venezuelan people.

Some might think that the Venezuelan leadership doesn't know how to build or run a planned socialist economy. Maybe they're shy of repeating the experience of the USSR or Cuba, or afraid of a trade blockade against them by the capitalist powers that purchase their petroleum.

Or maybe they're afraid that the Venezuelan people are not ready to assume control of the means of production and its distribution.

But another possibility is that they want to use the market economy to build infrastructure and raise standards of living first. When you have been to an impoverished country and seen the lack of roads, schools, power plants, industry, mechanized agriculture, etc. it's hard to imagine how you could distribute and manage what doesn't exist to begin with. Many "Third World" countries that tried to leap directly from massive underdevelopment into socialism fell flat on their face because they didn't have anything to socialize except land, and without improved agricultural techniques and at least some mechanization, they were stuck with subsistence farming. After the initial period of sending out medical and literacy brigades and breaking up the big farms, they were unable to make further progress and ended up back where the previous capitalist government left off, begging for foreign investment.

We all know what Marx and Engels thought about trying to socialize a non-industrialized nation.

I'm fascinated by agrarian utopianism but the fact is that in a world with seven or eight billion people, it just isn't a viable option for the vast majority of humanity.

This new crop of leftist Latin American leaders seems determined to "play the market" at least for a while (years, or decades) and try to get their people to a higher standard of living and educational level before socializing.

[TheWannabeAnarchist]

I'm with Venezuela, 100%. There are flaws in the Bolivarian Revolution, but it has improved the lives of countless thousands. Is it a substitute for true proletarian democracy? No. But it's still great progress.

[Comrade Jacob]

The Venezuelan leadership has it's people at heart, good luck to Maduro and the Bolivarian Revolution!

[SensibleLuxemburgist]

I agree with n0b0dy's statement that the state cannot guide socialism but it must be built from the ground up through the workers and peasants. With that in mind, the Bolivarian Revolution has been relatively immensely successful and has led to a new wave of left-wing movements throughout Latin America not seen since the age of Guevara and the Cuban Revolution.