The Green Party is so anti-communism. Why are they so anti-marxism?

[AmilcarCabral]

The other day I was in a Green Party Facebook group, thinking from my humble perspective, that Green Party activists are open to communism. But their reaction against communism, marxism, leninism was more violent than any of the reactions and insults coming from FOX news and Glenn Beck against marxist ideology. How come the people of The Green Party are so scared of socialism. Or why do they hate socialism so much? There is a sort mixed feelings of phobia and hatred against marxism, socialism and communism in The Green Party, and in many progressive liberal movements in America, such as the readers and followers of commondreams.org, alternet.org and counterpunch.org

I don't really understand how can progressives who hate capitalism and who are supposed to love marxism, hate marxism so much. It is not sensible and rational to do that. That's like a vegetarian who is scared of vegetables


.

[Jimmie Higgins]

In general progressives in the US aren't the same as social-democrats (though this changes and vassilates imo) and they are suseptable to red-baiting and are egar to distance themselves from "the crazies" further to the left. (Not that social-democrats aren't also hostile to revolutionary politics).

More specifically, the US Green Party in the mid 00s had a faction fight between the social-democratic oriented side of the party that saw the reason for the existance of the party as challenging the Democrats from the left and those who wanted to make alliances with the Democrats and to concentrate on local elections.

[Blake's Baby]

Why do you think they should be sympathetic to marxism?

[Taters]

I don't really understand how can progressives who hate capitalism and who are supposed to love marxism, hate marxism so much.

They don't hate capitalism, for one thing.

[DasFapital]

Some self desrcibed Marxists, like Joel Kovel, have run on the Green Party ticket but the majority of the party is left liberal who favor small business and a more "humane" capitalism.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Why do you think they should be sympathetic to marxism?

Because it doesn't take a particularly mighty intellect to recognize the relationship between capital and ecological destruction? Because, historically, anti-capitalists have been the shocktroops of resistance to capital's industrialized machinery of mass murder? Because the colonial context of the U$ underwrites the destruction of traditional indigenous land bases, seemingly pointing to the necessity of uniting any "green" politic with anticolonial resistance?

I can keep going, if you want, but you get the idea.

[Alexios]

Because it doesn't take a particularly mighty intellect to recognize the relationship between capital and ecological destruction? Because, historically, anti-capitalists have been the shocktroops of resistance to capital's industrialized machinery of mass murder? Because the colonial context of the U$ underwrites the destruction of traditional indigenous land bases, seemingly pointing to the necessity of uniting any "green" politic with anticolonial resistance?

I can keep going, if you want, but you get the idea.

They also seek to preserve the capitalist mode of production entirely, and have never touched a single piece of Marxist theory except for maybe the Communist Manifesto and 3 sentences from Capital. It's also of no help that all of the "Communist" states were giant polluters.

By the way, you don't need to say "U$" in order to make your position on American imperialism clear. I think we're all quite aware that the USA is the bad guy.

[Tim Cornelis]

Because it doesn't take a particularly mighty intellect to recognize the relationship between capital and ecological destruction? Because, historically, anti-capitalists have been the shocktroops of resistance to capital's industrialized machinery of mass murder? Because the colonial context of the U$ underwrites the destruction of traditional indigenous land bases, seemingly pointing to the necessity of uniting any "green" politic with anticolonial resistance?

I can keep going, if you want, but you get the idea.

Yeah, but why assume that liberals with a green agenda have any more knowledge about communism than do liberals of the Democratic Party? In their view, communism has a terrible track record in terms of ecological sustainability.

[Comrade Jacob]

Yeah, fuck the green party, just a bunch of left-liberal-keep-capitalism-on-a-leash-type-people.

[Crabbensmasher]

Eh, I get this feeling that Green Parties in general have identity issues. I know in Canada, a whole bunch of crowds fall under the Green Party umbrella. Tons of people I've talked to have just shown their allegiance because its 'furthest left' on the political spectrum. I guess that always happens when you run on a vague, and some would argue, naive, platform though. I got one of their pamphlets (provincial branch) in the mail awhile ago. It was some weird almost spiritual stuff about human coexistance, peace, and unity with the environment. Haha, I was half expecting to see some yin yang symbols and meditation techniques there.

Anyway, I could be wrong, but isn't the Green Party in the states still relatively new? I kind of figured they rode on the wave of 90s environmentalism, you know, of the Al Gore variety. I guess that wave was kind of overshadowed by 9/11 and terrorism though. Anyway yeah, it seems like a rather obscure history. I'm not really surprised there's people like what your describing. It would make sense if they are a bit ideologically lost.

[Blake's Baby]

They're hippies that have discovered social democracy, and think that vegan co-ops and 'ethical' businesses are the future of humanity, when they're not total mysanthropists who think millions (or billions) need to die before the planet is 'in harmony'. Why would they want to have anything to do with Marxism?

[AmilcarCabral]

Hi, I suspect that The Green Party of USA and other Green Party of other countries get a lot of funding and money. I don't really know where they get their funds for their websites, media appearances and meetings. But the Green Party is one of the third parties with the most funding. Maybe Green Capitalist Corporations support and fund their electoral campaings. Most of the activists of The Green Party come from the middle classes, most of them are usually people who are tired of the corruption of The Democratic Party and The Republican Party, but who are not ready to divorce themselves from the capitalist system



They also seek to preserve the capitalist mode of production entirely, and have never touched a single piece of Marxist theory except for maybe the Communist Manifesto and 3 sentences from Capital. It's also of no help that all of the "Communist" states were giant polluters.

By the way, you don't need to say "U$" in order to make your position on American imperialism clear. I think we're all quite aware that the USA is the bad guy.

[apoState]

The Green Party is not anti-capitalist, it just believes in highly regulated capitalism. Straight from their platform:


We must change the legal design of corporations so that they generate profits, but not at the expense of the environment, human rights, public health, workers, or the communities in which the corporation operates.

[RadioRaheem84]

The biggest fear in politics in the us is the fear of getting red baited. Even conservatives who advocated "compassionate conservatism" were denounced as advocating welfare. So the Green Party is a liberal-left kooky pseudo spiritual environmentalist party that strongly resents socialism and Marxism because it wants to distinguish itself as a pro capitalist party with a reformist perspective.

In the US you cannot separate socialism from Stalinism. Yet it find this odd because you can easily separate capitalism from the famines, slavery, wars, dictatorships, colonialism, and imperialism. Its as though capitalism began in 1945 during a period of great growth in the United States and all that other stuff that happened before it and after were just sad juxtapositions with a natural explanation.

That's what Americans have to sift through to get any coherent argument about capitalism.

[Sasha]

Yeah, but why assume that liberals with a green agenda have any more knowledge about communism than do liberals of the Democratic Party? In their view, communism has a terrible track record in terms of ecological sustainability.

Well i dont know anything about the US greens but the green party here is a direct continuation of (among some smaller socialist parties) the dutch communist party, some historical awareness would be nice.

[Tim Cornelis]

Well i dont know anything about the US greens but the green party here is a direct continuation of (among some smaller socialist parties) the dutch communist party, some historical awareness would be nice.

Yeah I'm familiar, and I'd say the PSP was more radical anyway. We're talking about the US Green Party here, firstly. Secondly, the Dutch GreenLeft is a bunch of left-liberals as well, and I don't think there's any radicals left still upholding some radical pretences, so it would apply there as well -- completely different generation of greens.

[adipocere]

I've noticed too. It reminds me of this video. The real message is for people to use "democratic" means to tilt at windmills and that "you don't need socialism"

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[Firebrand]

The trouble with parties built on single issue politics like environmentalism, is that lot of people with vastly different political stances may agree on that one issue, meaning that when they come to form policies beyond that single issue, and sometimes even in how they handle that issue, there are massive divisions and conflicts.

[RedHal]

There are plenty of videos of Jill Stein with ISO and Sawant. What does that say about the US Greens or the Trot ISO and SA?

[RadioRaheem84]

Yeah I though Jill Stein was an admitted socialist?

[Blake's Baby]

There are a few 'green socialists' in most green parties I figure. But so what? There are people who cal themselves 'socialists' in the Democratic Party in the US and the Labour Party in Britain... does that make those parties socialist? Of course not.

[RadioRaheem84]

There are no democrats they I know of that call themselves socialist. If you're thinking of Bernie sanders, he's an independent.

[Red_Banner]

Yeah, Sanders is decent.

[Blake's Baby]

There are no democrats they I know of that call themselves socialist. If you're thinking of Bernie sanders, he's an independent.

I don't know, I don't exactly follow the Democrats. I have heard of people that I was under the impression were Democrats who call themselves 'socialist'. Checking Bernie Sanders' wiki, yeah, I think I'm probably thinking of him. A sort of semi-detatched Democrat, it seems. Counts as a Democrat for some things but officially an Independent.

[reb]

Unless the green party is calling for the abolition of capital as a necessary condition for it's ecological programs then it is not communism. At best it can be described as utopian-socialism but even that would be a push. From my understandings, which could be entirely wrong, the green party has plans and ideas about working within the framework of the capitalist mode of production regarding their green policies. I am unaware of an articulated idea about post-capital being the starting point. It's little wonder that our social-democractic unite-the-left types support such a group because their methodology falls under the same utopian umbrella.

[Unumundisto]

Hi, I suspect that The Green Party of USA and other Green Party of other countries get a lot of funding and money.


I want to emphasize the difference between the two U.S. Green parties:

The G/GPUSA is the original U.S. Green Party. It's a socialist party. Democratic socialist. But a mainstream-attracted majority of that party split off and formed the Green Party U.S. (GPUS). Pretty much everyone left, and went to GPUS.


GPUS is the big Green Party now. G/GPUSA didn't run any candidates in the 2012 presidential election, but they remain an organization, and their platform, a good one, is still on the web.


As I've said elsewhere, if we had a rank-balloting voting system, like Instant Runoff (IRV), I'd rank the communist parties over the democratic socialist parties, and would rank the democratic socialist parties over the non-socialist progressive parties like GPUS, Justice Party, and Pirate Party.


Yes, the Greens have been red-baiting for a long time. I noticed it in the '80s too. They haven't changed (the GPUS variety, I mean). In a fairly recent presidential campaign, Nader refused an offer to be the G/GPUSA candidate, and his spokeman Jim Hightower, explained that refusal by saying that the G/GPUSA were "...damn-near communistic."


What's the reason for the GPUS red-baiting? The usual reason: A desperate need to kiss the mainstream fanny. GPUS thinks that it can gain respectability if it proves that it isn't socialist. And what better way to prove that than to be angrily critical of socialists?


It's a low and cowardly effort to gain respectability. GPUS, in its platform, calls for adequate funding for NPR (which is nothing more than part of the usual corporate mass-media propaganda aparatus). And, when advocating good funding for NPR, they refer to it with words to this effect: "The excellent news coverage of NPR" (or words to that effect).

Why? They seem to think that, if they praise NPR, then NPR might mention them. No, it doesn't work that way. NPR never mentions the Greens. On NPR, the Greens don't exist. (Of course neither does any non-Republocrat party, any media-forbidden party, or any media-forbidden policy-proposals).


So here's GPUS, trying so hard to kiss NPR's a**, with praise in their platform, and resorting to red-baiting to gain respectability...and being totally ignored by mainstream media, including NPR.


Unumundisto

[AmilcarCabral]

Thanks a lot for explaining the real reason for their hatred of marxism. I didn't know that there are 2 Green Parties.

And that anti-communism problem doesn't only exist in the Green Party, progressive liberals, the progressive liberal reformist left of USA is pretty much anti-communism, anti-marxism, anti-lenin, anti-mao, anti-trotsky, anti-stalin and anti-founders of scientific socialism. What an irony, they are leftists, but hate the founders of leftist political ideology.

Another problem I see in the left of USA is that the only left in America which has visibility and media power is the progressive liberal, social-democratic left, bourgeoise-left, reformist-leftist intellectuals, the centrist-left media sources like The Russia Today News, Democracy Now, Free Speech TV, Link TV. But there are no TV shows, no TV news shows for the marxist revolutionary left. The marxist radical revolutionary real left that believes in armed struggles instead of elections in order to implement real socialism which is workers-dictatorship needs to find a way to create a TV channel in order to compete with Russia Today News and Democracy Now.

Because what will happen in America thanks to those 2 powerful bourgeoise-liberal TV news channels is that the only alternatives to The Democratic Party and The Republican Party, will be people like Ron Paul, Bernie Sanders, The Green Party, The Libertarian Party and other bourgeoise liberal reformists. Because for some reason I don't understand most americans after almost 20 years of internet, still rely on TV for politics and not in the internet at all for politics.

We radical real leftists, marxism leftists, anarchist leftists, communist leftists, the non-elections leftists, the pro armed-struggles anti-elections left will have to compete with Russia Today, Democracy Now, commondreams.org, alternet.org, truthdig.com, coutnerpunch.org and the other bourgeoise liberal news sources so that most poor americans would resort to radical marxism as a real solution to get out of poverty instead of resorting to bourgeoise-liberal electoralist reformist politicians like The Green Party, Nader, Kucinich, Bernie Sanders, etc.






I want to emphasize the difference between the two U.S. Green parties:

The G/GPUSA is the original U.S. Green Party. It's a socialist party. Democratic socialist. But a mainstream-attracted majority of that party split off and formed the Green Party U.S. (GPUS). Pretty much everyone left, and went to GPUS.


GPUS is the big Green Party now. G/GPUSA didn't run any candidates in the 2012 presidential election, but they remain an organization, and their platform, a good one, is still on the web.


As I've said elsewhere, if we had a rank-balloting voting system, like Instant Runoff (IRV), I'd rank the communist parties over the democratic socialist parties, and would rank the democratic socialist parties over the non-socialist progressive parties like GPUS, Justice Party, and Pirate Party.


Yes, the Greens have been red-baiting for a long time. I noticed it in the '80s too. They haven't changed (the GPUS variety, I mean). In a fairly recent presidential campaign, Nader refused an offer to be the G/GPUSA candidate, and his spokeman Jim Hightower, explained that refusal by saying that the G/GPUSA were "...damn-near communistic."


What's the reason for the GPUS red-baiting? The usual reason: A desperate need to kiss the mainstream fanny. GPUS thinks that it can gain respectability if it proves that it isn't socialist. And what better way to prove that than to be angrily critical of socialists?


It's a low and cowardly effort to gain respectability. GPUS, in its platform, calls for adequate funding for NPR (which is nothing more than part of the usual corporate mass-media propaganda aparatus). And, when advocating good funding for NPR, they refer to it with words to this effect: "The excellent news coverage of NPR" (or words to that effect).

Why? They seem to think that, if they praise NPR, then NPR might mention them. No, it doesn't work that way. NPR never mentions the Greens. On NPR, the Greens don't exist. (Of course neither does any non-Republocrat party, any media-forbidden party, or any media-forbidden policy-proposals).


So here's GPUS, trying so hard to kiss NPR's a**, with praise in their platform, and resorting to red-baiting to gain respectability...and being totally ignored by mainstream media, including NPR.


Unumundisto