Christians face lashing for communion wine - Iran

[greenforest]

Even the 'recognized' faith group are treated as second-class citizens:



An Iranian court this month sentenced four Iranian Christians to 80 whiplashes for drinking wine during communion, despite there being no religious ban on alcohol in Christianity.

The Islamic Republic of Iran does not condone the drinking of alcohol, not even when it is part of a Christian religious activity it seems.

A court issued the sentence in the city of Rasht on Oct. 6. The men received the verdict on Oct. 20, and then had ten days to file an appeal, reported the Independent.

The men were also charged with possessing a satellite antenna.

The men sentenced are Behzad Taalipasand, Mehdi Reza Omidi (Youhan), Mehdi Dadkah (Danial) and Amir Hatemi (Youhanna). Source: Al Arabiya

[Aleister Granger]

Funny thing is, Christians (I mean the reactionary ones) will view this as "repression of Christianity" and go on about how it symbolizes the coming of Satan and that Islam is a Satanic system, even though they'd be very willing to do the same to Muslims in another certain religiously reactionary country and call it "for the good of Jesus Christ."

[Devrim]

This sounds really strange to me. Christians are allowed to produce, sell, buy, and consume alcohol in Iran including specifically for use in the Eucharist. I have been to Iran on more than one occasion, and always enjoyed the vodka there. It is quite common for people including Muslims to drink in Iran, and despite the laws that prohibit the majority of the population from drinking Iran has the third highest level of alcohol consumption per head in the Middle East.

What I suspect is actually happening here is that these people are actually converts (remember it is illegal for Mudlims to convert to Christianity in Iran), and they are being punished (as Muslims) for drinking rather than be charged with the much more serious offence of apostasy. The fact that the piece above gives Perdian names for these people with a Chrstian name in brackets only confirms these suspicions.

Devrim

[Devrim]

Funny thing is, Christians (I mean the reactionary ones) will view this as "repression of Christianity" and go on about how it symbolizes the coming of Satan and that Islam is a Satanic system,

Which doesn't alter the fact that Christians are oppressed in many Middle Eastern countries.

Devrim

[synthesis]

What I suspect is actually happening here is that these people are actually converts (remember it is illegal for Mudlims to convert to Christianity in Iran), and they are being punished (as Muslims) for drinking rather than be charged with the much more serious offence of apostasy.

I'm not sure how other countries' legal systems work - here we are usually offered a plea deal to reduce charges in exchange for not financially burdening the system with a trial. Do you think this would be similar, or would it be more likely that they decided not to charge them with apostasy because executing them would have negative repercussions politically?

[ВАЛТЕР]

I'd be careful not to believe every news on Iran found in the media. Yes they are a reactionary, oppressive, theocratic state. However, they are also in the sights of imperialist interests and it isn't unheard of for false or exaggerated reports to come out of countries on the chopping block which make them come off as barbaric or uncivilized.

Also, I've heard that drinking in Iran is quite legal so long as you aren't a Muslim. In fact I remember seeing a short documentary where the host goes and drinks vodka with an Iranian Jew without any mention of problems.

Here is the clip:

Rn4ZX99Fbxs

[Devrim]

I'm not sure how other countries' legal systems work - here we are usually offered a plea deal to reduce charges in exchange for not financially burdening the system with a trial. Do you think this would be similar, or would it be more likely that they decided not to charge them with apostasy because executing them would have negative repercussions politically?

I am not an expert on Iran's legal system, but I would imagine that the latter is much more likely than the former. I can't quite imagine being able to plea bargin on apostasy. It could be for another reason entirely though such as the Cadi being a friend of a relation of one of the accused, or just a feeling that they should receive a less serious punishment as a warning.

Devrim

[Flying Purple People Eater]

It's got nothing to do with alcohol. Even people who are muslim in Iran start chugging alcohol once they get home or go to parties. The laws are quite lax, and many don't follow them.

These people are most definitely being prosecuted for conversion, not because they are consuming alcohol. Not that it makes it any less disgusting.

[waqob]

Even the 'recognized' faith group are treated as second-class citizens

Because Christianity is a minority religion in Iran...

[Brandon's Impotent Rage]

See, this is the type of shit I want to show all of these reactionary Tea Party assholes in this country when they complain about how Christians are sooooo persecuted in America.

No, asshole. You are not facing persecution. These people in Iran? THEY are facing persecution for their religious beliefs. The coptic christians in Egypt? THEY are facing persecution for their religious beliefs. The victims of the misguided repressions in the various 'communist' countries? THEY are facing persecution for their religious beliefs.

THIS is what REAL religious persecution looks like, ya entitled mouth-breathing fucks!

[adipocere]

Source: Al Arabiya

It's the Saudi royal family's personal mouthpiece. It's probably bullshit.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Considering how fucking vicious Sunni-Shia conflicts can get, I wouldn't put it past the Iranian regime to do something like this.

Not surprised that for the sons of Abraham the whole "People of the Book" shpiel is more a political convenience than anything approaching an actual principle.

Discord, thy name is faith!

[hashem]

I've heard that drinking in Iran is quite legal so long as you aren't a Muslim. In fact I remember seeing a short documentary where the host goes and drinks vodka with an Iranian Jew without any mention of problems.

that is not true. alcohol drinks are forbidden in Iran for everyone, even non Muslims. punishment for drinking is lashing. despite this, people - even Muslims - drink illegally.

[RevolucionarBG]

Funny thing is, Christians (I mean the reactionary ones) will view this as "repression of Christianity" and go on about how it symbolizes the coming of Satan and that Islam is a Satanic system, even though they'd be very willing to do the same to Muslims in another certain religiously reactionary country and call it "for the good of Jesus Christ."

I agree with you. If any of the states where Christians are majority, religous state like Iran, it would be same kind of discrimination to them.

But that still doesn't approve the behaving of Iranian government. But that is partly explained by American threat they're facing...

[Devrim]

that is not true. alcohol drinks are forbidden in Iran for everyone, even non Muslims. punishment for drinking is lashing. despite this, people - even Muslims - drink illegally.

No, you are wrong here. Christians are allowed to drink legally. I have been there on a few occasions and drunk (really rough) Armenian distilled vodka legally.

Devrim

[hashem]

No, you are wrong here. Christians are allowed to drink legally. I have been there on a few occasions and drunk (really rough) Armenian distilled vodka legally.

Devrim

because you drunk in private where police couldnt see you. if they see you while you are drinking, you will be lashed regardless of your religion.

you can ask those Armenians.

[Devrim]

because you drunk in private where police couldnt see you. if they see you while you are drinking, you will be lashed regardless of your religion.

you can ask those Armenians.


The alcoholic drinks market in Iran consist of only non-alcoholic beer, as the law bans alcohol for Muslim citizens. Non-Muslim citizens (namely Christian and Jewish citizens) are allowed to produce alcoholic beverages for their consumption. Non-Muslim citizens are also allowed to bring alcohol into the country. However, despite complete prohibition for Muslim citizens, there is still widespread alcohol use across Iran.

Devrim