This forum is unrepresentative....

[A.J.]

Of the real-life labour movement.

What I mean is that, it seems to be me, a disproportionate amount of users on this forum adhere to ideological trends that have no base whatsoever within the organised industrial working class.

I refer specifically, of course, to a) trotskyism and b) this "left communism"

With particular regard to the former; a lot hype has been created down the years about how hugely influencial a trotskyite group called the "militant tendency" supposedly was back in 80s Britain. However, the fact of the matter was it only had at its peak a paltry five thousand members and, more importantly, consisted almost entirely of white-collar salariat such as college lecturers and accountants(who have traditionally considered themseleves to be, rightly or wrongly, "middle class", anyway). In short, it was a complete joke.

The question I put to the admin/mods on this forum is this; what concrete steps are actually being taken to even up the score and have a more representative cross-section of users?
Namely, encourage more, what's the word I'm looking for, "Stalinists" to post on here?

[Zealot]

Stalinist, at your service.

But really, the point of this website is to bring together leftists of various stripes for discussions and debate so let me assure you that there are a few "Stalinists" on here as well.

[Zealot]

Also, I wouldn't say that "Stalinism", or even radical leftism in general, is actually represented in the views of contemporary labour movements. Sad but true.

[#FF0000]

What I mean is that, it seems to be me, a disproportionate amount of users on this forum adhere to ideological trends that have no base whatsoever within the organised industrial working class...

"Stalinists"

lmfao

[Os Cangaceiros]

And "Stalinism" is representative of the real-life labor movement?

In what country? This whole website is not representative of the real-life labor movement because the majority of the real-life labor movement is not revolutionary.

[motion denied]

I think it depends on where you live.

On here, trots are somehow 'influential', maybe more than MLs. They're all irrelevant though, as we all are. We're dead, mate.

[A.J.]

Also, I wouldn't say that "Stalinism", or even radical leftism in general, is actually represented in the views of contemporary labour movements. Sad but true.

This comment is bogus.

Also, I wasn't really making specific reference to the present day.

[Zealot]

This comment is bogus.

Also, I wasn't really making specific reference to the present day.

So because Marxism-Leninism was represented in labour movements several decades ago, the 2013 website of Revleft.com is unrepresentative? And then you mock Trotskyists for having a membership of 5,000 back in the 80s. I'm quite confused.

[A.J.]

And "Stalinism" is representative of the real-life labor movement?

In what country? This whole website is not representative of the real-life labor movement because the majority of the real-life labor movement is not revolutionary.

Your revealing your ignorance if you think America is typical of the rest of the world.

How many factory branches did the "militant tendency" have?

[Popular Front of Judea]

The question I put to the admin/mods on this forum is this; what concrete steps are actually being taken to even up the score and have a more representative cross-section of users?
Namely, encourage more, what's the word I'm looking for, "Stalinists" to post on here?

Why am I getting an awful sense of deja vu right now?

[#FF0000]

we should ignore troll threads tbh

[Os Cangaceiros]

Your revealing your ignorance if you think America is typical of the rest of the world.

How many factory branches did the "militant tendency" have?

Please, moderate and reformist tendencies dominate within organized labor in the vast majority of the world.

[A.J.]

I knew this would strike a raw nerve:laugh:

[#FF0000]

I knew this would strike a raw nerve:laugh:

"heh we need more stalinists on revleft so it is more representative of the actual labor movement heh"

"communists of all stripes are kind of irrelevant in the labor movement"

"heh heh i knew you would get mad i win"

kind of sad tbh.

[Hit The North]

I knew this would strike a raw nerve:laugh:

I don't see any exposed nerves in this thread, just people calling you out on your bullshit.

[A.J.]

I don't see any exposed nerves in this thread, just people calling you out on your bullshit.

Well, you for one seem quite aggravated judging by your snidey reply.

But anyway; what "bullshit" did I post on this thread? Everything I've stated is factually accurate.

[A.J.]

"heh we need more stalinists on revleft so it is more representative of the actual labor movement heh"

"communists of all stripes are kind of irrelevant in the labor movement"

"heh heh i knew you would get mad i win"

kind of sad tbh.

What's sad is misquoting someone in order to try and make a point.

[A Revolutionary Tool]

Why don't you gather your group of Stalinists to come on here? I mean you must have an army of them, you guys actually have a base within the organized working class! Maybe then the forum would be more representative and you could get a position on the forum mod team or something and rid us of these ideologues who have no base in the working class itself.

[human strike]

With particular regard to the former; a lot hype has been created down the years about how hugely influencial a trotskyite group called the "militant tendency" supposedly was back in 80s Britain. However, the fact of the matter was it only had at its peak a paltry five thousand members

I know this was a troll, but the Black Panther Party only had around 5,000 members and the Situationist International in 1968 only about 12.

Shit, I hope that can't be misconstrued as a defence of Militant...

[Vladimir Innit Lenin]

feed the troll and he'll grow into an even fatter teenage basement dweller.

Sad but true.

Stalinism should be our only tendency, because it's so popular within the wider working class. It's the only way we can be representative guysssss.....

[Flying Purple People Eater]

There is not a single marxist-leninist that I know of in the local labour movement. Your favored political shaft is also unrepresentative. This is not the 1950s and people no longer kiss portraits of strongmen before going to strikes.


Also, did your teachers in primary school ever explain to you that argumentum ad populum is a fallacy? The NSDAP was a monstrous, right-wing, fascist party that was the cause of the deaths of 11 million P.O.W.s (6 million of them ethnic Jews, 500'000+ of them Gypsies), and many more in battle, but it was also supported by swathes and swathes of German working class. Does this suddenly justify the absurd, monstrous politics of the Nazis? Because some people who happened to be working class supported it? You're either a demagogue, a rabid workerist moron, or both.

[o well this is ok I guess]

What's sad is misquoting someone in order to try and make a point.which part isn't a stance you hold

[Tim Cornelis]

If we look at the demographic make up of the far-left (thus excluding the moderates and reformists within the "labour movement"), we see that Marxist-Leninists are well underrepresented on revleft. The reason is, I wager, that revleft attracts people whom are interested in intellectual debate, and hence the overrepresentation of anarchists, left-communists, as well as Trotskyists and orthodox Marxists. Is this an insult toward Marxist-Leninists? Certainly not. There's nothing wrong with being non-intellectual (nor do I claim that Marxist-Leninists are necessarily non-intellectual). The reason Marxism-Leninism is the largest current within the far-left globally is because it manages to attract workers, whereas left-communism, despite intellectual appeal, does not. Semi-political workers are interested in politics insofar it concerns their livelihood and immediate interests, and have no interest in discussing what mode of production the USSR was. Hence, they follow whatever far-left tendency their perceive as struggling for their interests without concern for in-depth theoretical nuances.
This suggests that we, non-Leninist, anti-Stalinist communists, need to re-evaluate our strategic approach to the working class.

[Ravachol]

The reason Marxism-Leninism is the largest current within the far-left globally is because it manages to attract workers


It does? Where? Run-off-the-mill conservatism, liberalism or social democracy attracts more workers than even the 'largest' ML racket in India or Latin America.



This suggests that we, non-Leninist, anti-Stalinist communists, need to re-evaluate our strategic approach to the working class.

By doing what? Imitating the historic and earth-shattering success of Stalinists everywhere? :rolleyes:

[CyM]

8000, not 5000. And some of the yorkshire miners would probably have a beef to pick with you, since you decided to erase them from the history of militant. Not just teachers and desk workers.

[ed miliband]

stalinists are an oppressed minority.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Yeah, the most popular "left"-politic in the global working class is almost definitely some sort of social democracy. I'd say that this is ultimately true even among many "Marxist-Leninists" - how many of the "official" communist parties have, in practice, taken state power only to act, well, like the Communist Party of India (Marxist)?

As for what I might off-hand call Stalinism (anti-revisionist Marxism-Leninism), I think it's hardly the leading thought of the working class. I certainly don't want to generalize conditions in Canada to the rest of the world, but there are probably more Trotskyists and Anarchists than CPC(ML) members in any city you care to name. To be honest, I'd even say it seems like a generational thing: most of the CPC(ML) members I know are over forty.

[CyM]

Militant in comedy (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKnLN1way-o#t=6m48s).

[Tim Cornelis]

It does? Where? Run-off-the-mill conservatism, liberalism or social democracy attracts more workers than even the 'largest' ML racket in India or Latin America.

I said within far-left tendencies, or, tendencies tolerated on revleft if you will, amongst them, Marxism-Leninism is by far the largest within that category.


By doing what? Imitating the historic and earth-shattering success of Stalinists everywhere? :rolleyes:

I'm not trying to be offensive here, but your sorta nihilist attitude and defeatism has kind of become a boring routine. All your posts are in the same spirit, and do not contribute to anything constructive. Again, no offense but you come across as revleft's angry emo: "everyone sucks and everything sucks, what's the point of all of this?"

The very rhetorical question shows a nihilistic predetermined dismissal, where I didn't even propose anything controversial or absurd, namely the mere suggestion that the non-Leninist revolutionary left should, given their marginalised existence, should re-evaluate their strategic approach.

[Sasha]

I would say that this forum is very representative of the revolutionary left among late teens to early twentiers in the Anglophone world. We are right on the demographic money.

[reb]

This is pretty funny coming from a Stalinist in the UK who's party does nothing but run for office, support the labor party and shitty institutionalized unions of which it sells it's paper to that nobody reads and turns up at events they didn't start with their flags and banners.

[Leftsolidarity]

This thread is stupid.

Thread closed.