Reality of Stalin

[argeiphontes]

For anyone wishing to learn about the realities of Stalin and life in the USSR and Eastern Bloc, there's an online book written by a Polish person whose parents were Stalin supporters:

http://pages.csam.montclair.edu/~kowalski/life/intro.html

Some gems include:



my parents, Polish communists, took their infant son and emigrated to the Soviet Union. Blinded by idealism, like so many others, they were unaware of the brutality and violence Stalin was imposing on the Soviet people. The price for their naivety was very high. Many foreign helpers, who were first welcomed, were subsequently declared “enemies of the people” and either executed or imprisoned. How can this be understood?




Ideology ceased to guide political decisions and became a means of justifying them.




millions of kulaks (prosperous peasants) were either killed or sent to die in concentration camps. Most Bolshevik leaders, including many of Stalin's close friends, were executed as spies and enemies. The same was true for top Red Army commanders; 214 of 286 were executed. How many of them could possibly have been spies and enemies of the state?




“On 4 April 1953, Pravda carried a prominent statement by Lavrenty Beria, Stalin's infamous head of secret police, exonerating nine Soviet doctors (seven of them Jews) who had previously been accused of “wrecking, espionage and terrorist activities against the active leaders of the Soviet Government.” The Soviet people, especially its Jews, were astounded to learn that just a month after Stalin's death the new leadership now admitted that the charges had been entirely invented by Stalin and his followers. Seven of the doctors were immediately released--two had already died at the hands of their jailers.” The initial arrest was not a mistake, as I wrote in the diary, it was part of Stalin's anti-Semitic policy.


Enjoy.

[tuwix]

If you started this thread to convince some Stalinist or Leninist to change their opinions about Stalin or Lenin, I'm affraid you'll fail. :)

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

One more book to add to the pile I suppose.

At this point, it should be understood that there is no such thing as a history of the USSR, that there are only competing mythologies each with their own narrative and meta-narrative, and that the correctness of each narrative is based upon its power.

[Popular Front of Judea]

At this point, it should be understood that there is no such thing as a history of the USSR, that there are only competing mythologies each with their own narrative and meta-narrative, and that the correctness of each narrative is based upon its power.

"The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of millions is a statistic."

[Yet_Another_Boring_Marxist]

"The death of one man is a tragedy. The death of millions is a statistic."

Said a german romance writer of the 18th century. But the actual fact of the matter is irrelevant, it is the power of the narrative, and even if I empirically prove that you are incorrect in this quote then it will be irrelevant because the "truth" will be that it was Stalin who said this, because the truth is a relation of power and ideological hegemony, not empirical fact.

[Popular Front of Judea]

Said a german romance writer of the 18th century. But the actual fact of the matter is irrelevant, it is the power of the narrative, and even if I empirically prove that you are incorrect in this quote then it will be irrelevant because the "truth" will be that it was Stalin who said this, because the truth is a relation of power and ideological hegemony, not empirical fact.

Did I say that Stalin said that? ;)

[Stalinist Speaker]

hmm a diary of a former communist. well the problem is that this guy has never been any sort of communist, he only lived in the USSR but that doesn't make him a communist.
And also this guy is a known anti-communist. so yeah.
well i expect that you already understand that all those 20-60 million deaths under stalin is just made up, and that it only was 800k people sentenced to death under stalin.
and he had nothing to back those claims with, basically a bunch of made p stories and half truths.

[Creative Destruction]

This guy spams another forum I go to. It's kind of off-putting and discourages me from reading his stuff.

[Stalinist Speaker]

This guy posts at another forum I go to and he's a nutcase.

who?

[Creative Destruction]

who? argeiphontes?

No. Ludwik Kowalski. And you ninjaquoted me. It's unfair of me to say he's a nutcase, because I don't know that for sure. But he spammed our (the other one I go to) forum pretty regularly in 2011, and let up recently, though still drops in and doesn't converse. He usually just does it to promote his wiki page and his book.

[Stalinist Speaker]

No. Ludwik Kowalski. And you ninjaquoted me. It's unfair of me to say he's a nutcase, because I don't know that for sure. But he spammed our (the other one I go to) forum pretty regularly in 2011, and let up recently, though still drops in and doesn't converse. He usually just does it to promote his wiki page and his book.

is Ludwik posting on forums? or is it just people spamming his works? don't expect someone like him being on an forum, he's like 80 years old.

[Creative Destruction]

i Ludwik posting on forums? or is it just people spamming his works?

Whoever it is, they're posting under the handle "kowalskil". I can't imagine anyone thinks he's important enough to go to some relatively obscure message boards (he does this in other places, too, apparently), register under his name and spam his website.

[argeiphontes]

hmm a diary of a former communist. well the problem is that this guy has never been any sort of communist, he only lived in the USSR but that doesn't make him a communist.

Because there was never any communism in the Eastern Bloc, sure. But other than that it sounds pretty sincere.



And also this guy is a known anti-communist. so yeah.

Well he's mistaken as to what communism is, but he has very good reasons for his position. Reasons that should be considered and not just gainsayed.



well i expect that you already understand that all those 20-60 million deaths under stalin is just made up, and that it only was 800k people sentenced to death under stalin.


A mere pittance! That changes everything ;)

[argeiphontes]

If you started this thread to convince some Stalinist or Leninist to change their opinions about Stalin or Lenin, I'm affraid you'll fail. :)

There's no arguing with religion. I just wanted to point out its true nature.

[A.J.]

Many foreign helpers, who were first welcomed, were subsequently declared “enemies of the people” and either executed or imprisoned. How can this be understood?

It can quite easily be understood because a lot these "foreign helpers"(bourgeois specialists from hostile imperialist powers) were conducting espionage and sabotage.

To use but one example, I refer to the Metro-Vickers trial of 1933....

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/mobile/RUSmetro.htm


millions of kulaks (prosperous peasants) were either killed or sent to die in concentration camps.

Did the kulaks, the bourgeoisie in the countryside, actually number "millions"?
Surely the entire basis of the kulaks being "prosperous" was that they exploited the poor peasantry(semi-proletarians).
Furthermore, during collectivisation the kulaks were conducting all sorts of wrecking activities such destroying crops, killing livestock and so on. I have no sympathy with them whatsover.

liquidate the kulaks as a class!


Most Bolshevik leaders, including many of Stalin's close friends, were executed as spies and enemies. The same was true for top Red Army commanders; 214 of 286 were executed. How many of them could possibly have been spies and enemies of the state?

More than a few(as was often proved in open court attended by members of the international media at the time).
This being the case they got their just desserts.
With world war looming it was absolutely imperative that all potential fifth-columnists were rooted out.

[Comrade Jacob]

well i expect that you already understand that all those 20-60 million deaths under stalin is just made up, and that it only was 800k people sentenced to death under stalin.

It's amazing that people can't be sure if or if not 40,000,000 other people died.
Hmmm... did 2 in 10 of people I knew die or 5 in 10?
It's quite ridiculous.

[Magic Carpets Corp.]

That's pretty weak. Some crap about Stalin's supposed anti-semitism? This is the same Stalin who because of his severe disgust at anti-semitism adopted an idealistic position on Zionism and was thus instrumental in the establishment of Israel? Israel wasn't crushed in 1948 by the Egyptians, Syrians, Iraqis and Jordanians because of Soviet armaments shipments to the Zionists through Czechoslavakia. The USSR was the first state to recognize Israel, for fuck's sake.

My favorite part of the OP is the "stalin killed rural petty-capitalists :( :( :( :( :(" section, though.

[argeiphontes]

That's pretty weak. Some crap about Stalin's supposed anti-semitism? This is the same Stalin who because of his severe disgust at anti-semitism adopted an idealistic position on Zionism and was thus instrumental in the establishment of Israel? Israel wasn't crushed in 1948 by the Egyptians, Syrians, Iraqis and Jordanians because of Soviet armaments shipments to the Zionists through Czechoslavakia. The USSR was the first state to recognize Israel, for fuck's sake.

Capital needs a market.



My favorite part of the OP is the "stalin killed rural petty-capitalists :( :( :( :( :(" section, though.

That's one of my favorites too. I guess for some people, socialism is about revenge. People who might otherwise claim to be materialists. For me, its about socioeconomic revolution.

[Magic Carpets Corp.]

Capital needs a market.
Vague ultraleft phrase-mongering without any basis in objective material facts. Yawn. No economic relationship existed between Israel and the USSR. No trade or economic interests whatsoever. Grasping at straws there buddy. The Soviet Union wasn't really invested in anything that was happening in the Middle East until the West turned on the Arabs in the build-up to the Suez Crisis of 1956 and socialism started gaining ground in the Arab World. Even then, the first event that could be interpreted as Soviet economic involvement in the region was the beginning of the construction of the Aswan Dam in Egypt in the 1960s.


That's one of my favorites too. I guess for some people, socialism is about revenge. People who might otherwise claim to be materialists. For me, its about socioeconomic revolution.
Revenge? Fuck you on about you Polish chauvinist? Let's about about socio-economic revolution if you so wish. How do you proceed with socialist construction unless you start dealing with the millions of petty-capitalist Kulaks in the countryside? By expropriating them. Which is exactly what happened during the anti-Kulak repressions. If some of them have to be killed or die in the proccess, so what? Big fucking deal. Every new civilization has been inaugurated with the blood of the representatives of the old order.

A lot of people are going to die in the chaos that is all-pervasive social transformation. Get used to it. You're not going to convince capitalists, petty-capitalists and other class enemies to go out peacefully while their parasitic classes are being liquidated with catchy slogans and verbose leftist phrases.

[Creative Destruction]

If some of them have to be killed or die in the proccess, so what? Big fucking deal.

Good lord. Gotta love the keyboard kommunist kowboys of RevLeft.

[TheIrrationalist]

That's pretty weak. Some crap about Stalin's supposed anti-semitism? This is the same Stalin who because of his severe disgust at anti-semitism adopted an idealistic position on Zionism and was thus instrumental in the establishment of Israel? Israel wasn't crushed in 1948 by the Egyptians, Syrians, Iraqis and Jordanians because of Soviet armaments shipments to the Zionists through Czechoslavakia. The USSR was the first state to recognize Israel, for fuck's sake.

You know that Stalin had this campaign against 'rootless cosmopolitanism'. Rootless cosmopolitanism being an euphemism for 'those who lacked Russian national character', or Jews to put it more bluntly. The Soviet state staged many patriotic events, for example 'Night of the Murdered Poets'. The Great Patriotic Proletarian Struggle against filthy-bourgeois-imperialist-cosmopolitanism culminated in 'the Doctors' Plot', a great exposure of the dangerous cosmopolitan-bourgeois conspiracy.

[rednordman]

@OP: I really don't know what your trying to prove by citing a heavily partisan book by someone who hates socialism and all other left-wing ideology?

[argeiphontes]

@OP: I really don't know what your trying to prove by citing a heavily partisan book by someone who hates socialism and all other left-wing ideology?

I think that the process by which he came to that position is important.



One of Stalin's greatest crimes was making socialism stink in the noses of those who could benefit most from it.


edit: Promoting a Stalinist dystopia is detrimental to the movement as a whole. Many people who might otherwise side with the movement would be forced to side with the forces of reaction, if they cared about their lives and the lives of their families and friends. Not to mention if they wanted real socialism and not a brutal dictatorship, whatever its economic system.

[A.J.]

Who the fuck is terry eagleton when he's at home?:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

[argeiphontes]

Ad hominem arguments aren't going to negate the quote. I say the same thing myself.

(Go for it... ;) )

[reb]

Stalinists are like Mr Brean trying to park his car, no one takes them seriously.

[DDR]

For Stalin I recomend "Stalin: The History and Criticism of a Black Legend" by Domenico Losurdo.

[Magic Carpets Corp.]

You know that Stalin had this campaign against 'rootless cosmopolitanism'. Rootless cosmopolitanism being an euphemism for 'those who lacked Russian national character', or Jews to put it more bluntly. The Soviet state staged many patriotic events, for example 'Night of the Murdered Poets'. The Great Patriotic Proletarian Struggle against filthy-bourgeois-imperialist-cosmopolitanism culminated in 'the Doctors' Plot', a great exposure of the dangerous cosmopolitan-bourgeois conspiracy.
You are so wrong here that reading your post physically pains me. Instead of mindlessly parrating simplistic propaganda how about you do some research instead?

That "those who lacked Russian national character" quote has nothing to do with the Soviet Union, the Bolsheviks, or Stalin. It comes from a 19th century Russian literary critic, Vissarion Belinsky who died in 1848 from tuberculosis or something. Incidentally, he was aligned with the Anarchists, and was a close friend of Bakunin's. The anti-semitic "rootless cosmopolitans" campaign of 1948-1953 had nothing to do with Stalin(Stalin actually made little impact on Soviet policy after his health began to seriously deteriorate after WWII - in 1945 alone he had both a stroke and a heart attack, and after that he began to withdraw himself from party and state affairs except for the most pressing matters). Its originators were Russian chauvinist journalists around 1948, who were denounced and criticized by the Party leadership. For example in 1949, Stalin criticized the trend that these chauvinist journalists developed, where they would "out" Soviet Jewish writers who adopted non-Jewish literary pseudonyms by putting their real, Jewish, names in brackets:

"Why Mal'tsev, and then Rovinskii between brackets? What's the matter here? How long will this continue…? If a man chose a literary pseudonym for himself, it's his right…. But apparently someone is glad to emphasise that this person has a double surname, to emphasise that he is a Jew…. Why create anti-Semitism?"
This chauvinist antisemitic attitude then spread, by the 1950s, into the MGB. The Minister of the MGB, Semyon Ignatiev, adopted it as well. Ignatiev organized that "Doctor's Plot" farce personally. Stalin opposed it(as testified by his daughter and even the most prominent Russian anti-communist researchers and dissidents like Zhores Medvedev and the Memorial organization in general and specifically their lead researcher Gennadiy Kostyrchenko), and on his behalf, Malenkov and Beria began a campaign to discredit it in January 1953. By April, Ignatiev was denounced for fabricating the Doctor's Plot by Beria who had it dismissed, his MGB was disbanded and he and his loyalists were either purged or exiled(Ignatiev himself was exiled to Bashkiria, in the Urals, the remnants of his Ministry were swallowed up by the MVD). And thus ended the influence of the antisemites.

Funnily enough, Stalin was accused for the first time of supporting this nonsense by Khruschev during his famous 1956 speech. Best part: he rehabilitated Ignatiev and even called him a victim of Stalin's antisemitism. Ignatiev was then again purged in 1960 though.

If you want to know Stalin's opinion on anti-semitism, here, take a glance:

National and racial chauvinism is a vestige of the misanthropic customs characteristic of the period of cannibalism. Anti-semitism, as an extreme form of racial chauvinism, is the most dangerous vestige of cannibalism.

Anti-semitism is of advantage to the exploiters as a lightning conductor that deflects the blows aimed by the working people at capitalism. Anti-semitism is dangerous for the working people as being a false path that leads them off the right road and lands them in the jungle. Hence Communists, as consistent internationalists, cannot but be irreconcilable, sworn enemies of anti-semitism.

In the U.S.S.R. anti-semitism is punishable with the utmost severity of the law as a phenomenon deeply hostile to the Soviet system. Under U.S.S.R. law active anti-semites are liable to the death penalty.

Not as insidious as bourgeois historians would like you to believe. Not at all.


I think that the process by which he came to that position is important.

And Hitler became a fascist because the villainous Jews backstabbed Germany and made it lose the First World War, right? The process!

First you defend Polish reactionaries that were shot at Katyn, now you defend this notorious anti-communist reactionary. No non-Pole is beyond your defense. Curious pattern. You're more of a Pilsudski kind of guy, rather than a Stalin kind of guy, eh?

[rednordman]

I think that the process by which he came to that position is important.But your talking like every communist (or even Stalinist) is awash with ideas that time in his dictatorship was wonderful. Sorry but that isn't the reason why people end up defending him (or take a balanced view to be exact). Sure it wasn't as bad as Russia, but life in the west was also pretty shit in the same period. It could easily have resorted to hard-line authoritarian measures had the population swayed fiercely to the radical left.

The problem with the author is not just what he experienced that is bad, but rather how he is unapologetically trying to uses his families experiences to slander the whole ideology of communism (leftism as a whole too probably) and everyone hangs onto his every word (or at least he expects them to).

If any of us talked about the evils of capitalism in the public nowadays, most people wouldn't take us seriously or give a shit. Even though its responsible for incidents like this one. But why don't people ever debate those? they have just as much reason to.

As for the nature of Stalin's dictatorship. I completely agree that a lot of wrong was done, but do you think it was the only one? Do we not have similar repression in today's society? Sure, no-one dies or gets purged, but put a serious treat to the people in power, and we'd soon see how they'd have no reason to take the moral high ground.

[tuwix]

There's no arguing with religion. I just wanted to point out its true nature.

"It is easier to disintegrate an atom than a prejudice." - Albert Einstein

[Stalinist Speaker]

Because there was never any communism in the Eastern Bloc, sure. But other than that it sounds pretty sincere. ;)

Well in that case there are no communists any where in the world.

[Flying Purple People Eater]

Well in that case there are no communists any where in the world.

This doesn't follow.

[Sea]

Wow! I'm only on Chapter 2 and already I'm beginning to think communism is impossible. Maybe tomorrow I will apply for membership of the KKK!

[erupt]

You are so wrong here that reading your post physically pains me. Instead of mindlessly parrating simplistic propaganda how about you do some research instead?

Not as insidious as bourgeois historians would like you to believe. Not at all.

And Hitler became a fascist because the villainous Jews backstabbed Germany and made it lose the First World War, right? The process!

First you defend Polish reactionaries that were shot at Katyn, now you defend this notorious anti-communist reactionary. No non-Pole is beyond your defense. Curious pattern. You're more of a Pilsudski kind of guy, rather than a Stalin kind of guy, eh?

You willingness to kill and ease of acceptance, rather than declaring, at least, that it would be least a terrible thing, reminds me of the smell of Fascism. I'm not trying to start trouble, but it's just a shared characteristic I suppose.

I know struggle culminates in violence, specifically class struggle, but your inability to see any error or buckle of Stalin's, is what doesn't make sense.

[Sea]

I'm not trying to start trouble, but it's just a shared characteristic I suppose. If you weren't trying to star trouble you wouldn't be calling people the F-bomb in the first place.


You willingness to kill and ease of acceptance, rather than declaring, at least, that it would be least a terrible thing, reminds me of the smell of Fascism. I'm not trying to start trouble, but it's just a shared characteristic I suppose.

I know struggle culminates in violence, specifically class struggle, but your inability to see any error or buckle of Stalin's, is what doesn't make sense.
There's a difference between defending Stalin and defending Stalin against bullshit accusations. To defend Stalin, point-blank, is silly legacy-mongering and reeks of individualism. To defend Stalin against bullshit is something that both detractors and promoters of Stalin's thought and action should engage in. It's useful for pro-Stalin types to do because it builds their argument. It's useful to anti-Stalin types to do this to refine their argument. I'm not a big Stalin fan myself (admittedly I've never bothered to formulate my vulgar objections to Stalin's shenanigans into testable claims) but so many of the arguments against the poor bastard are completely baseless or resolve to a very vulgar view of things, and to just let that slide would be to be intellectually dishonest with myself.

[erupt]

If you weren't trying to star trouble you wouldn't be calling people the F-bomb in the first place.

There's a difference between defending Stalin and defending Stalin against bullshit accusations. To defend Stalin, point-blank, is silly legacy-mongering and reeks of individualism. To defend Stalin against bullshit is something that both detractors and promoters of Stalin's thought and action should engage in. It's useful for pro-Stalin types to do because it builds their argument. It's useful to anti-Stalin types to do this to refine their argument. I'm not a big Stalin fan myself (admittedly I've never bothered to formulate my vulgar objections to Stalin's shenanigans into testable claims) but so many of the arguments against the poor bastard are completely baseless or resolve to a very vulgar view of things, and to just let that slide would be to be intellectually dishonest with myself.

I really am not trying to start trouble. There was no other way to say it. If I wanted to start trouble I would have been much more aggressive and sarcastic.

I agree completely concerning the defense of Stalin; like you said, it would be "intellectual dishonesty" if it were not true. I'm not talking about the aforementioned literature, of course, as I've never read it; I'll take the popular notion that it's not accurate.

The problem comes up when people have a totally different idea of what happened; one socialist's history is another socialist's lie or propaganda.