Philosophy

[iloveatomickitten]

For all the argument over morality, metaphysics and epistemology what has humanity to show for it? New philosophies simply arise and rather than producing clarity simply change the way in which people think which in turn provides opportunity for other inerpretations.

What has philosophy accomplished?

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Here are a few examples: a basis for our knowledge, Marxism, convinced people of the power of reason and rationality, tore the dominince of religious superstition from the nobility, provoked thoughts, began revolutions, an outlet for curiosity...

Famous Philosophers:

Pythagotagoras - Gave us maths

Heraclitus - dialectics, surely this is something good for humanity if you are a Marxist.

Democritus- materialism

Aristotle- biology, zoology, physics

I can go on if you want but philosophy is the foundation of all knowledge, it pushes the boundaries and gains the stereotype of being unproductive by either people who the philosophers are influecing unwittingly or else because it requires a degree of leisure ( Read Pieper's essays) to accomplasish anything.

Atheism and its popularising of it as something not to, be ashamed of can got to amongst others, Spinoza, Heraclites, Nietzsche and Sartre.

[Wenty]

Philosophy furthers human understanding about our most ostensibly fundamental beliefs about the world. It questions why we believe what we do and helps us gain a better perspective on the world.

in addition to this, political philosophy is even more helpful i.e. john rawls' theory of justice.

You could also ask why do humans explore, go to the moon or many other things? Understanding this world and what it is to live in it is natural and vital, in my opinion.

[iloveatomickitten]

Personally I'm a sceptic so perhaps that doesn't allow me to view philosophy as you do, certainly not as the foundation of "knowledge."

But perhaps the philosophers you mention give me something of an answer - they motivate people to achieve that which isn't philosophy.

Political Philosophy though gave us Machiavelli as well as the concept of "justice."

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Personally I'm a sceptic so perhaps that doesn't allow me to view philosophy as you do, certainly not as the foundation of "knowledge."


If you are a sceptic, prove to me that you are or tell me why you are, scepticism is a branch of philosophy too you know.

How do you prove scepticism or do you believe that you can't prove scepticism because knowledge to what scepticism is prevents you from disproving it.


But perhaps the philosophers you mention give me something of an answer - they motivate people to achieve that which isn't philosophy.


I dont think you get at all, I value philosophy above them all because it is the basis for them all.

Political Philosophy though gave us Machiavelli as well as the concept of "justice."[QUOTE]

Well capitalism gives rise to socialism and in turn marxism according to Marx! Machiavelli is hardly an example to say Philosophy is useless because some guy wrote the Prince.

[Individual]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2004, 06:57 PM
For all the argument over morality, metaphysics and epistemology what has humanity to show for it? New philosophies simply arise and rather than producing clarity simply change the way in which people think which in turn provides opportunity for other inerpretations.

What has philosophy accomplished?
Philosophy has accomplished just that, what you said about it:

"simply change the way in which people think which in turn provides opportunity for other interpretation."

Although this is nearly not its only accomplishment. Look at it this way. Yes the US is moving towards being an imperialistic, and tyrant nation. However imagine if that was exactly what we lived under, a tyrant. We could look back at Philosophy and determine what highs and lows, goods and bads, would from this. And be able to figure out what we need to do about it, and what we need to change it to. Or if we should leave it the same. Philosophy would in turn change the way the people of this imperialistic nation interpret their state of living, and they would be able to determine what would be a better way to go about handling this.

This is clearly not philosophies only accomplishment, like Geist has said, certain philosophers have thought of things we use in our everyday. Philosophy is very important in society because it puts logical thought behind some of the most complex problems, and it arises new interpretations on things. Society needs both of these in order to keep a constant balance, therefore philosophy has accomplished this.

[iloveatomickitten]

Geist

"or do you believe that you can't prove scepticism because knowledge to what scepticism is prevents you from disproving it" etc.

Scepticism - All statements make some assumption no matter how small there is always some form of insecurity in the "facts" that someone presents and as a result no definite conclusion can ever be made though existence of "forms" is not ruled out, allowing for the existence of scepticism as a philosophy (not very convincing but thats about all I have "stupid paradox"). This leads onto existentialism - destroying meaning hence anything philosophy can accomplish can no longer hold any value. No prof as such though.


Political Philosophy though gave us Machiavelli as well as the concept of "justice."

Well capitalism gives rise to socialism and in turn marxism according to Marx! Machiavelli is hardly an example to say Philosophy is useless because some guy wrote the Prince.



Machiavelli isn't a reason for philosophy being useless I was simply responding to the way that Comrade Wentys' tone which alluded to the view that political philosophy was without fault and a good thing as far a marxist/communist/anarchist etc. may see a good thing.

[Individual]

iloveatomickitten:

In case you have yet to realize, exactly what you are doing is philosophy. So as much as you find no meaning in it and do not like philosophy. You are practicing philosophy by writing that last post. To understand this think of that fact that you are providing reasoning and interpretations. Am I wrong? So your questioning on philosophy is in fact philosophy itself leading to the reason for philosophy. Do you get what I am saying?

[hazard]

you people, I mean, if I ever encountered a loaded question...

ALL of knowledge hsa its origins in philosophy

it is literally the discipline based upon the increase of all mental attributes

intelligence and wisdom

since philosophy was overrun by science about 300 years ago, the no mind idiots have already forgotten that prior to science, which was hung up on transforming lead into gold until Descartes, philosophy was the answer to everything. all rational science was contained within it. science was developed within philsophy, and then, like zeus giving birth to athena, science sprang onto the world and carried all of its plagues with it. pollution, over population, capitalism, the internet, and so on.

philosophy was, and still is considered by many rational people, the master discipline.

currently, philosophy is reserved for criticism. the two modern philosophies reflect this. EXISTENTIALISM is the bitter solution to the destruction of philosophies status. bleak, and as a final stab to the world philosophy's version of a doomsday weapon is released. ATOMISM is the scientific version of philosophy that is critical and explosive. like nuclear weapons poised to dissect and fragment all language into a series of meaningless statements, the future of philosophy lay here.

as still being the MASTER ART discipline, all arts are subservient too it. the fine arts are least reflected by this, while stuff like ENGLISH( philosophy lite), HISTORY(english lite), and all of the social sciences, PSYCHOLOGY( philosophy for dummies ), SOCIOLOGY ( philosophy after a lobotomy ) and CRIMINOLOGY ( philosophy for cops ) and so on are all fragments of philosophy. all of them are connected through philosophy.

[Hegemonicretribution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2004, 10:23 PM
iloveatomickitten:

In case you have yet to realize, exactly what you are doing is philosophy. So as much as you find no meaning in it and do not like philosophy. You are practicing philosophy by writing that last post. To understand this think of that fact that you are providing reasoning and interpretations. Am I wrong? So your questioning on philosophy is in fact philosophy itself leading to the reason for philosophy. Do you get what I am saying?
my sentiments exactly



I believe that philosophy can be used also as a pursuit, an excellant arena for the developement of debating skills, or one way in which people can learn to think "outside the box" ie maybe I haven't always been told the truth...

The questions raised are simlarly explored through art and science, what does science achieve? For every goal they reach, they require another to draaw level...prisoners of their own success. What does art achieve? Perhaps merely having something to appreciate is valuable, or a method of expression as equally valued.

Many scientific principles have existed first as philosophies, look at astro-physics.

[iloveatomickitten]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2004, 10:23 PM
iloveatomickitten:

In case you have yet to realize, exactly what you are doing is philosophy. So as much as you find no meaning in it and do not like philosophy. You are practicing philosophy by writing that last post. To understand this think of that fact that you are providing reasoning and interpretations. Am I wrong? So your questioning on philosophy is in fact philosophy itself leading to the reason for philosophy. Do you get what I am saying?

ALL of knowledge hsa its origins in philosophy

it is literally the discipline based upon the increase of all mental attributes

Then again not all philosophy creates knowledge some like the scepticism already mentioned destroy it and if the end result of philosophy is a conclusion based on a similar philosophy the certainly it will have been in vain.


philosophy was, and still is considered by many rational people, the master discipline.

That is simply egoism philosophy is good to rational people i.e. philosophers and in know way speaks for the greatness of philsophy.



In case you have yet to realize, exactly what you are doing is philosophy. So as much as you find no meaning in it and do not like philosophy. You are practicing philosophy by writing that last post. To understand this think of that fact that you are providing reasoning and interpretations. Am I wrong? So your questioning on philosophy is in fact philosophy itself leading to the reason for philosophy. Do you get what I am saying?

Of course I do, I like philosphy in face of the fact I find little value in it.

[Misodoctakleidist]

It seems to me like philosophy encompasses everything which isn't considered to be a 'science' for example the question "if a tree fell and know one was there to hear it would it make a noise?" was once a question of philosophy but is now a question of physics.

[Rasta Sapian]

philosophy is a word thats free, its here for both u and me!
been around for thousands of years, used to dive deep into
peoples fears.
uses big words, to descibe theory, ohh don't be werry or ever
so contraray.
its knoweledge, existentialism shizm, definision of life, peace
a eitht!

[che's long lost daughter]

Philosophy gives order to our lives

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by che's long lost [email protected] 17 2004, 07:48 PM
Philosophy gives order to our lives
does it? always?

[che's long lost daughter]

What I mean is that it gives us a sense of direction thus, we will have order in our lives. But yeah, not always---that is, if it's the wrong philosophy

[Fidelbrand]

But some philosophies advocates the non-order/non-direction of life (just float like a cloud and be carefree, maybe even abandon langauge), such as Laozi's philosophy.

It is also hard to judge a philosophy as wrong or right.. try not to think like of philosophy in terms of right or wrong, it hinders your widening of your horizon.

[fallen camarade]

Philosophy is a decent thing to be skeptical about, but not something to put down. Most philosophy could be argued to be abstract and subjective, and not really knowledge at all, such as metaphysics and other such topics. However, these things, all though can't be directly correct in every way, through a constant open minded search for answers, you may increase your chances of making a good decision or belief, and take in a wealth of understanding in the process. Asking what the point of philosophy is, is like asking why people go skiiing or read. It's something to do. It's the same as saying "Why entertain ourselves and think about the answers to things if we are just going to die some day?". It shows an escalation of general feeling in the world populous, and is an intellectual activity. It's fun, and interesting, and it may just lead us to something good at some point.

[hazard]

fc:

you have been here for less than three hours and I already think you've overstayed your welcome

first of all, there is not one iota of intellectual merit in not just this post, which is so unbelieveably idiotic I can't even believe it was written by a human, but in every post you made. sentences ONE TWO AND THREE are examples of this. what the fuck are you even talking about? complete and utter nonsense. philosophy is not even something that CAN be considered worthy of being skeptical towards. you doubt its existence? you doubt its validity? fuck are you dumb.

now your "same as" statements. what in the name of fuck. are you for fucking real? you are like saying shit like this. a tree is just like a piece of steel in that each are according to their wood value. get it? you are making no sense. you make no sense. you are senseless. what the fuck?

[MysticArcher]

Hazard, be less harsh, as you pointed out he's new here cut him some slack

he actually does make some sense, maybe you should read the post a little instead of ranting about how stupid fallen comrade is

anyway, as to philosophy, you can't really say philosophy is good or it's useless, since there are so many different parts to philosophy and different ideas

most modern philosophy kind of sucks though

[hazard]

fc is a multi user

I haven't figured out who else "he" is, but his timing and statements are not condonable

he has been making implicit remarks about my personal life that I cannot tolerate

[MysticArcher]

what implied remarks? I think you're being a little paranoid here

and forgive my lack of internet lingo, what is a multi user?

[hazard]

ma:

how would you know if the remarks made were personal unless you were me? paranoid would be imagining these remarks were being made. these remarks are actually being made.

a multi user is someone who goes onto a website and uses a half dozen different names

[MysticArcher]

alright, I see your point,

as for fc being a multi user, unless the point of this mulit user thing is to make these implied remarks I don't see how it has any bearing on your hatred of him

[hazard]

hatred? not quite

he is an idiot, an imbecile and a moron, big moron

[Wenty]

this is off topic, but i really disagree with your opinions on existentalism (made breifly earlier) hazard.

Its a hugely influential and honest philosophy which helps us live our lives. Thats all!

[fallen camarade]

Hazard, first of all, you are being kind of ridiculous by reading everything I've written on this site so far just to insult it. Grow up a little.

Secondly, this forum is about learning things, so why don't we stop using it to insult people. It's kind of lame.

And to answer Hazard's challenge, I'm not saying philosophy does not exist. I never said that. I never said I didn't think it was valid. All I was saying in the first few sentences was that I could see why this forum was created. People that think philosophically often stumble upon what the point of all the debating is about. It's a very common thing, and I was just saying that I understand the concept of the topic.

What I do feel, however, is that philosophy didn't have to exist. I'd imagine that you've read my entry in the forum where someone said that life was meaningless, Hazard, seeing as how you have been rudely stalking me on this site just so you could say I was stupid. I don't feel like retyping it all again, so if by some miracle you haven't read it and defaced it yet, go right ahead and read it. Basically, through that entry, I think that the validity of philosophy is that it helps to keep up with the progression of our minds. In fields like social and political philosophy, these things, in the long run, are meaningless, if you think about that at a point in time, there were no country lines, no governments, no classes, or anything like that. It was an age of primitive life millions of years ago, but whatever the meaning to life is, had to apply then also. Those kinds of philosophy are valid because because we need to think about them to survive in modern times.

As for things such as metaphysicsl, religion, and fate ( the latter of which you seem to be a little overly personal about), a lot of these are very abstract, as anyone would know. In the forum I started about fate, you said that it was stupid to not believe in fate. There is a difference between being helpful, and being closed minded. If you have an agrument, state it, but even if you find a way to prove that I am wrong about what I wrote, things like fate are abstract, and thus the obvious: no one freakin knows. Due to the fact that my scenario was not realistic in the sense that I could just try it out and test it, I obviously can't be positive, but it seems like a decend way to think about it.

Philosophy is a good thing, and it is useful and valid, which I clearly stated in my original post, but I guess you missed that part. The point is, is that you are not willing to admit that you don't know things. Everyone in here that disagrees with you, you call an idiot. What I wrote originally is that you can't know certain things, but that dosen't mean we should stop thinking about them. I agreed with nearly everything you believe on this matter, you were just to busy talking trash. And the "same as" statements were simply saying that philosophy is something you do, just like anything else (skiiing or reading), and is choosen by some to by the way they use their life. that's about it. Please read more closely from now on, and if you have criticism, make it constructive instead of rude. I'm still learning to, and so are you.

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 18 2004, 04:12 PM

Its a hugely influential and honest philosophy which helps us live our lives. Thats all!

Ok expand on that, how does existensialism help us live our lives and what is honest about it?

Just wondering, I find it odd you place so much emphasis on one philosophy especially one as loosely defined and rejected by its propenants except Sartre like existensialism.

[fallen camarade]

Again, Hazard, I am not a multi-user. I don't want to insult your personal life, I just want to learn something. constructively prove me wrong, and I will admit defeat.

[Wenty]

This is only my belief but i think that existentalism, in general, helps us to gain a better perspective on what it means as one human in a huge universe. How it seems obvious that this life is devoid of purpose and that we are abandoned in the world (that is sartre's take anyway).

More to the point, Camus asks what are we to do once we are aware of the absurd? He puts forward a position of revolt. Our lives are so meaningless, so brief and full of angst they can be taken from us at any point, on any day. So we should live our life in full knowledge of the this absurdity, living fruitfully and to the max. To revolt against the absurd, not to give in to it (which would be suicide) should be our aim.

[Individual]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2004, 05:01 AM
fc:

you have been here for less than three hours and I already think you've overstayed your welcome

first of all, there is not one iota of intellectual merit in not just this post, which is so unbelieveably idiotic I can't even believe it was written by a human, but in every post you made. sentences ONE TWO AND THREE are examples of this. what the fuck are you even talking about? complete and utter nonsense. philosophy is not even something that CAN be considered worthy of being skeptical towards. you doubt its existence? you doubt its validity? fuck are you dumb.

now your "same as" statements. what in the name of fuck. are you for fucking real? you are like saying shit like this. a tree is just like a piece of steel in that each are according to their wood value. get it? you are making no sense. you make no sense. you are senseless. what the fuck?
hazard:

First off your name is NOT God. And no you DO NOT know every ounce of knowledge there is to know. With that I would like you to realize that many people are entitled to a opinion other than your own.

And considering that you most likely do not have a degree in anything. Who are you to say what is and is not intellectual. Because you rip on people for being stupid, does that make you feel worth in your life? If I am correct, I feel pity. However, and I quote you on this, you write:

"there is not one iota of intellectual merit in not just this post, which is so unbelieveably idiotic I can't even believe it was written by a human, but in every post you made"

Well lets now take a look at how intellectual your writing is, and we shall compare. You write, and I qoute:

"what in the name of fuck. are you for fucking real? you are like saying shit like this. a tree is just like a piece of steel in that each are according to their wood value. get it? you are making no sense. you make no sense. you are senseless. what the fuck?"

So Hazard, what exactly is your definition of intellect? Because it appears what you think "intellect" means, is sounding like a rambling idiot that makes no sense. Or wait, as you would say. "you are making no sense. you make no sense. you are senseless." emm k? Do you get what I am saying. I have learned this for myself, before you are quick to judge someone, look closely at yourself and make sure that what you are proceeding to complain about, you don't do yourself.

Oh yeh, one more thing, I reiterate myself. Hazard you are NOT God. Remember this.

[iloveatomickitten]

Hazard isn't God?


you doubt its validity?

Validity

-

Well grounded; just: a valid objection.
Producing the desired results; efficacious: valid methods.
Having legal force; effective or binding: a valid title.
Logic.
Containing premises from which the conclusion may logically be derived: a valid argument.
Correctly inferred or deduced from a premise: a valid conclusion.
Archaic. Of sound health; robust.


I'd say that someone is justified to doubt its validity.

[hazard]

would like to point out that ALL users who have joined CHE-LIVES since late NOVEMBER are complete and utter idiots. the level of their idiocity can never hope to compare to their level of stupidity. you all flocked over as a result of my latest installment of GUERRILLA POSTING. your so called cover stories are so laughable I can't even believe you are trying to pass them off as anything more than lies of invalids. your inherent lack of creativity and desire to vainly aggitate for the sheer intention of irritation speaks leagues about who you are, who you hope to be, and all that you ever could become. complete trash. hicks. dimwits and empty headed numbskulls.

[Hegemonicretribution]

If you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all. So far all I have seen is insults, and I might of missed your brilliant political input..I am a very on and off user, but if people are new they are entitled to be "idiotic" with such a young user base this place is great for education.

[Misodoctakleidist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2004, 08:13 AM
would like to point out that ALL users who have joined CHE-LIVES since late NOVEMBER are complete and utter idiots.
hazard, you shouldn't call anyone an idiot.

[Individual]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2004, 08:13 AM
would like to point out that ALL users who have joined CHE-LIVES since late NOVEMBER are complete and utter idiots. the level of their idiocity can never hope to compare to their level of stupidity. you all flocked over as a result of my latest installment of GUERRILLA POSTING. your so called cover stories are so laughable I can't even believe you are trying to pass them off as anything more than lies of invalids. your inherent lack of creativity and desire to vainly aggitate for the sheer intention of irritation speaks leagues about who you are, who you hope to be, and all that you ever could become. complete trash. hicks. dimwits and empty headed numbskulls.
Hazard

Ok genius. If you are so tremendously smart, honestly tell me where you have graduated from? What is your degree in? Exactly, I may not be correct, however I am almost positive I am right. That you are an ignorant teenager that feels that your little head of yours holds the answers to the universe. Hazard answer me this, genius. What number am I holding up. Oh but you don't know that? Ohhh. Well I thought you knew everything.

You should really start to pay closer attention to reality. Society would go nowhere if it were full of people like you. You are the equivalent to a capitalist, with an ego the size of Texas. Couldn't you ever admit that some people just might know something that you do not. You should really listen to the post that says no philosophy is right or wrong. For this would clue you in that everything you agree with isn't necessarily right or wrong.

And from what I have seen, people that have joined Che-Lives since November have made more sense in their posts than you have. So theoretically I could say anyone that joined in March of 2003 is a "complete and utter idiot". People are not here as you are to challenge people in being God. People are here to learn, which is something you feel you are finished with. What exactly makes you so superior, because you have more posts? Whoopdeedo, and prove in your set philosophical views how having more posts would make you any better than the next guy. On top of that. From what I have seen of you, probably 3/4 of all your posts probably contain no intellectual thought. Just rambling on using words like "idiot", "complete and utter", "fuck" and "shit". And your telling me that this makes you superior? Wow. You sure do have a whole lot of intellect in that brain of yours.

Instead of trashing on peoples views, maybe you should try to expand your mind and you just might learn something. The thing I find funniest, is in a PM you wrote me you said a very similar thing to me:

"about who you are, who you hope to be, and all that you ever could become. complete trash. hicks. dimwits and empty headed numbskulls."

You know this would of course (sarcastically) lead me to believe that you are going to grow up and change the world, win a Nobel Prize, and be the greatest philosopher that lives. However I will put my cookies on it that you will not. I see you and your rambling stuck down at the local bar getting in bar fights and yelling at older ladies because you don't like their shoes. This is harsh, however judging by your inability to listen to other theories, and insist that you are always right and we are all wrong, justifies my feelings. I would think that in being superior because you have been in this forum for an entire 8 months longer than us idiots from november, that you would realize what you are doing is childish, and in no way helps the goals of what this website stands for.

[iloveatomickitten]

would like to point out that ALL users who have joined CHE-LIVES since late NOVEMBER are complete and utter idiots.

ALL?

To give a single example to discredit you mendacious claim:

Geist (though my intention isn't to flatter) relative to him/her you appear to be the intellectual equivalent of a slug.


you all flocked over as a result of my latest installment of GUERRILLA POSTING

You have a very large ego don't you? You should really try to use "all" less.


your so called cover stories are so laughable I can't even believe you are trying to pass them off as anything more than lies of invalids

Cover stories? What would they be?


your inherent lack of creativity and desire to vainly aggitate for the sheer intention of irritation speaks leagues about who you are, who you hope to be, and all that you ever could become

Unfortunately you are the "agitator" and may I ask where you authority comes from when you claim absolute knowledge of peoples motivations and "who we are?" I'm sorry to say AlwaysQuestion but it appears that you were wrong, Hazard is God, perhaps we should show him the reverence that such an omniscient being such as Hazard clearly deserves. So let us all pray for enlightenment and that one day, we may be blessed in the form of a constructive post from our Great Lord Hazard (ex nihilo).

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

Actually Danton considers me a fool because I dared say mocking Che's wife was wrong but hey whatever.

Anyway no point taking part in these little fights, leave that for the General Chat forums whatever. It seems the same people post in the Philosophy forum a lot and I think we all put in some interesting input so lets keep it that way.

What was this thread origanally about.

Oh and I have a feeling I may be banned, I seem to be pissing off some 'old' members.

[fallen camarade]

Although this dosen't help Geist's request, I'd like to continue on that note for a second. I don't know how many of you noticed, but the user Hazard has had someone insulting his personal life, as he put it, and because he dosen't like the things I say on here, he decided that it must be me insulting him. He traced my URL, and is threatening to "call the authorities". Over philosophical differences, he is trying to get me arrested or something. I sent him a long message asking him to reconsider his threat, but he hasn't answered me yet. I'm getting a little frustrated.

I've been thinking about philosophical people lately, and I discovered the reason why philosophy isn't as big of a deal as it was a few centuries ago. It's because people threaten to "call the authorities". It's because if one person feels that another is wrong, instead of saying "Well, I disagree, and this is why", they say "Well, you are a fucking retard". I've seen plenty of that ridiculousness in the few days I've been a member here, and even writing this, I feel uncomfortable, and worry that I am going to come back on tommorrow, and find another threat awaiting me, just because of disagreement. Is this really why everyone comes in here? To tell people they are dumb? I'll say to all of you what I said to Hazard. Philosophical people want to learn, if that is truly what they are. I came to this site to be critisized!!! I want people to tell me that I am not making sense that I can correct myself, and so that I want sound moronic when trying to make a point. I want to understand things better, so I came in here, trusting all of you to help me out, but all I've gotten so far is "You are stupid", or "That is the most moronic fucking thing I've ever heard". Nobody wants to hear that. If you are going to be that childish, at least back up why you think that instead of making a five year old's insult to make someone feel ignorant. I may be new, but I can learn, and the only way my thoughts won't bother people, is if when I say something senseless, which I will do from time to time, and so will everyone else, that someone has the decency to help me out in a manner that that person would help if it were their brother or sister: agressive, but helpful.

Geist made one of these insults at me, and I asked him to not act that way, and to tell me why he didn't feel I was making sense. He picked apart an entire entry I did, and corrected where he saw fit, remembering to make sure he complemented me for the few things in it that he felt made sense. I have yet to thank him, but Geist, if you read this, thank you for doing what we all should be doing: being helpful. This is what we need to do for one another so these senseless fights don't happen. We are all people who think in abstract ways, and seek to find meaning in things, so I hope that we can make sense of that, and be more helpful to eachother. I'm sorry to sound like an over determined hippie, but the only way to learn in philosophy, is to listen to someone else's opinion....

[fallen camarade]

Well, I just got a reply from Hazard after seding him a more than reasonable message asking for him to be on good terms with me, and he said he didn't believe anything I said, and basically that he hated me. This is bunch of bullshit. I've had enough of the snobs on this fucking website who think they know everything. I never thought I'd get threats of getting arrested just for stating my opinion. For all of you who are like Hazard, Fuck You. As for you who use this website for enjoying yourselves and trying to learn something, I'm sorry that you have to deal with so much fucking scum. Thanks a lot for making me feel welcome, and being open minded individuals. I appreciate all the bullshit, threats, and insults, after being a member for less than a week. Unless you want to tell me how delete a user on this website, don't send me messages, because I won't read them. This is my last post. Thanks a lot....

[Pedro Alonso Lopez]

You are letting another user stop you from posting, cope on show some individualism.

I'm not interested in your petty squabbles but your input to our philosophical discussions so you two get over it, most likely he can't get you arrested, if your so worried just get a proxy or something.