The Chinese model of Socialism

[cobrawolf_meiji]

I have been looking at China's new style of Socialism and I think that it may be the very future of the Socialist and Communist movement. while many here will disagree with me and will say that China is becoming too capitalist. But I see Communism and Socialism and ever changing and will evolve to suit the times. Chinese Communism may well be the path of Communism in general.

[Q]

Moved from /Theory to /Learning because while it is isn't phrased as a question, it deals about pretty basic stuff.

[Jimmie Higgins]

I guess to help clarify discussion: what do you see as the Chinese model of socialism and what about it is a path to communism? The first post was kind of general - it might be better to be a little more specific.

[Marshal of the People]

China isn't socialist or communist it is capitalist, the Chinese government allow their workers to be paid just US$1 an hour that isn't a socialist policy it is a capitalist policy of exploiting the workers for the benefit of the greedy bourgeois which are now everywhere in china, there is absolutely no socialism or communism in china it is all capitalist the Chinese government betrayed Mao and socialism they reverted to capitalism.

[Per Levy]

I have been looking at China's new style of Socialism and I think that it may be the very future of the Socialist and Communist movement.

jimmie is quite right, we first need to know what you mean when you say stuff like "China's new style of Socialism". and what you understand as "communism" and "socialism".


while many here will disagree with me and will say that China is becoming too capitalist.

its not becoming "to capitalistic" it is capitalistic through and through. the chinese bourgeosie is ruling china through the "communist" party. the state and the capitlaists are, hand in hand, exploiting the chinese working class for maximum profits.


But I see Communism and Socialism and ever changing and will evolve to suit the times.

communism by definition is a classless, moneyless, stateless free society. it cant change to a society where there are classes, and where the ruling class is exploiting the rest, where there is a state that to supress the lower classes and where there is money.

socialism on the other hand is a bit more vague, since almost every tendency seems to use it in a different way, from being the same as communism to being statecapitalistic system ruled by a party.


Chinese Communism may well be the path of Communism in general.

so that means communism will be more exploitation, the strenghtening of class distinctions, and what not?


Moaist Party of America

dont know if that is a joke or not, still, most maoists i've seen denounce china as being capitalist.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

I have been looking at China's new style of Socialism and I think that it may be the very future of the Socialist and Communist movement.
Since there is no socialism in China, what exactly are you referring to?


while many here will disagree with me and will say that China is becoming too capitalist.
Becoming? :lol:

[hashem]

the government of China suppresses workers, denies political freedom from them and forces them to work like slaves, but there are people who call themselves "communist" and support this government and the economical system which its guarding. shouldnt communists throw these liars out of their ranks instead of arguing with them?

[Red_Banner]

China hasn't been pro-socialist or communist since Mao's death.

When Deng Xiaoping came to power, capitalists took over.

Before Deng Xiaoping took full control, people had advanced communes, China had universal healthcare with Mao's "Barefoot Doctors" program, people were allowed to have guns.

All that is gone.

[tachosomoza]

China is not only a capitalist basket case that is allowing the international bourgeoisie to destroy its people and environment, it is also a neo-imperialist power that is destroying Africa in ways Cecil Rhodes and King Leopold couldn't have dreamed of. It's like a murderous, hungry tiger.

[Thirsty Crow]

I have been looking at China's new style of Socialism and I think that it may be the very future of the Socialist and Communist movement. while many here will disagree with me and will say that China is becoming too capitalist. But I see Communism and Socialism and ever changing and will evolve to suit the times. Chinese Communism may well be the path of Communism in general.
Oh boy.

China isn't becoming capitalist. Capital was never eliminated, not even in the period of the specifically Chinese - therefore, Maoist - development state, much less after the implementation of so called Deng reforms.

The times are just as they have been in the 19th century, with respect to fundamental antagonisms and structures - wage labor and capital, social development based on this relationship. Therefore, communism has nothing to adapt to as it is still a political and theoretical expression of the drive on behalf of world working class to eliminate capital and its own status as the working class (which arises from permanent tendencies of capitalist development towards all kinds of disastrous consequences for the working class).

And finally, it's hard to see how this so called Chinese communism is a path to anything other than the constitution of a major imperialist contender for global hegemony.

[Art Vandelay]

China isn't becoming capitalist. Capital was never eliminated, not even in the period of the specifically Chinese - therefore, Maoist - development state, much less after the implementation of so called Deng reforms.

Not only that, but Mao was extremely open about the class collaborationist nature of his regime/theory and the amount of industry which was nationalized (I don't remember exactly but I don't even think it touched 75%, but my memory could be misleading me), in his 'socialist state.'

[Comrade Jacob]

Interesting choice of threads comrade.
No, the Chinese Government has stabbed Mao in the back and insultingly uses his memory to push capitalism!
When ever I see Mao's portrait looking over the square I can almost see the disappointment on his face.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2378/1705959408_5bf217e062.jpg

[cobrawolf_meiji]

China is not only a capitalist basket case that is allowing the international bourgeoisie to destroy its people and environment, it is also a neo-imperialist power that is destroying Africa in ways Cecil Rhodes and King Leopold couldn't have dreamed of. It's like a murderous, hungry tiger.

China is not Neo-Imperialist, It had been a Imperial Power for over five thousand years, but never really sought Imperialist Might since the time of the Mongols, when the Manchus took over, China began a very long decline from the world power stage and is only just returning to becoming a Global Superpower once again. Only instead of Emperors, The Communist Party rules China and makes policy for the Chinese Nation. All in All, China is still like it was five thousand years ago, only more modern.

[Marshal of the People]

China is not Neo-Imperialist, It had been a Imperial Power for over five thousand years, but never really sought Imperialist Might since the time of the Mongols, when the Manchus took over, China began a very long decline from the world power stage and is only just returning to becoming a Global Superpower once again. Only instead of Emperors, The Communist Party rules China and makes policy for the Chinese Nation. All in All, China is still like it was five thousand years ago, only more modern.

So you admit it is isn't socialist because imperial China wasn't socialist.

I really hope that either the people, the army, the communist party or a combination of the above restores socialism to china.:grin:

[reb]

China is not Neo-Imperialist,

I think reality would disagree with you

http://japanfocus.org/data/chi.invt.af.2005.gif

[Tim Cornelis]

What would the Netherlands need to do to adopt this wonderful model of Socialism styled after China? First, abolish the right to collective bargaining and collective action, abolish minimum wage, abolish the eight hour work day, significantly diminish social welfare spending, lower corporate taxes, and nationalise some major corporations… It is beyond me how anyone claiming to be a socialist can seriously look at China and think it has anything to do with socialism, let alone seeking to emulate it.

Also this:
http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/images/2012/Nov/china-claims-image002.jpg

[cobrawolf_meiji]

So you admit it is isn't socialist because imperial China wasn't socialist.

I really hope that either the people, the army, the communist party or a combination of the above restores socialism to china.:grin:

I think that they might keep China the way it is...for now, China is trying to reform it self, trying not to end up like The Soviet Union and fall apart. The Soviet Union fell mainly because it could not keep up with the times. China it self is still under the rule of The Communist Party, but it is allowing a little Capitalism, only a little, to keep from ending up like Russia.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

I think that they might keep China the way it is...for now, China is trying to reform it self, trying not to end up like The Soviet Union and fall apart. The Soviet Union fell mainly because it could not keep up with the times. China it self is still under the rule of The Communist Party, but it is allowing a little Capitalism, only a little, to keep from ending up like Russia.

The only thing different is that the party in China didn't change its name. Otherwise it's in many ways similar to Russia. China actually started it before, though, Deng's "reforms" beginning on the already patchy Mao-era policies in 1976.

[cobrawolf_meiji]

Mao was one of the best Communist Leaders of the 20th century. He fallowed Marx's ideas and added some of his own. He, Castro and a few others stay true to Karl Marx's idea of Communism, unlike the leaders in Eastern Europe and The Soviet Union, which turned Marx's dream into a Political Monster.

[Marshal of the People]

Mao was one of the best Communist Leaders of the 20th century. He fallowed Marx's ideas and added some of his own. He, Castro and a few others stay true to Karl Marx's idea of Communism, unlike the leaders in Eastern Europe and The Soviet Union, which turned Marx's dream into a Political Monster.

I partly agree with that point, Mao did want to create a perfect socialist society (and I like him for that) though he killed a lot of people in the process and that is the thing I don't like about him. I think to be able to achieve a communist society you must either abolish the state outright (which could lead to some trouble) or the dictatorship of the proletariat must be a full democracy not a dictatorship, a dictatorship has occurred in almost every socialist and communist nation, a dictatorship even if you have a good leader will lead to the oppression of the people because you can't count on having good dictators all the time eventually a bad leader will arrive and destroy the revolution which happened in both China and the Soviet Union among other nations. I think that the dictatorship of the proletariat should be a direct democracy with very short terms (less than a year) and that the leaders should be instantly re-callable by the people, also (as I have learnt in another thread) I think that a lottery system should be used to select leaders and people who want to be leaders should sign a registry so they could be selected randomly (this is so people who don't want to rule don't become leaders). But that's just my opinion anyway.

[Danielle Ni Dhighe]

China it self is still under the rule of The Communist Party, but it is allowing a little Capitalism, only a little, to keep from ending up like Russia.
There's no such thing as "a little capitalism." It either is or it isn't.

[Zealot]

There's more socialism in my country than there is in China so no thanks

[hashem]

Mao was one of the best Communist Leaders of the 20th century. He fallowed Marx's ideas and added some of his own. He, Castro and a few others stay true to Karl Marx's idea of Communism

Mao exposed Fidel Castro's regime as a servant of Russian social imperialism. Mao and Castro dont fit into a single category.

[cobrawolf_meiji]

There's more socialism in my country than there is in China so no thanks

There is more Capitalism in The "Tea Party" then anywhere else in the world, even the US and China. But I think that even with China 'Going Capitalist' Communism will still have a home in China and may even rise up again, not by Military Force as I have heard some people talk about here, but it will be The People it self that will make the choice.

[Remus Bleys]

There is more Capitalism in The "Tea Party" then anywhere else in the world, even the US and China. But I think that even with China 'Going Capitalist' Communism will still have a home in China and may even rise up again, not by Military Force as I have heard some people talk about here, but it will be The People it self that will make the choice.
And this is the problem with saying Full communism.

[Sperm-Doll Setsuna]

There is more Capitalism in The "Tea Party" then anywhere else in the world, even the US and China. But I think that even with China 'Going Capitalist' Communism will still have a home in China and may even rise up again, not by Military Force as I have heard some people talk about here, but it will be The People it self that will make the choice.

The popular opinion in China is very much anti-communist (extremely high approval of a nebulous 'capitalism'), partly because they associate communism with their awful capitalist government. Currently the tendency is in direction of a more liberal capitalism and little other changes. There might be a change in favour of 'multi-party democracy' in the future, but this won't change any substance. The Chinese government fiercely keeps class militancy low with force.

[AmilcarCabral]

Marshal: Indeed and I think that we also have to add that another feature that makes the economic model of China capitalist and even a little bit neoliberal, is that there are even Mcdonalds, and Burger King in China and many corporations of China are owned by the private sector. So I think that China doesn't even have a state-capitalist system like North Korea or Cuba, which are more state-capitalist than China right now


.



China isn't socialist or communist it is capitalist, the Chinese government allow their workers to be paid just US$1 an hour that isn't a socialist policy it is a capitalist policy of exploiting the workers for the benefit of the greedy bourgeois which are now everywhere in china, there is absolutely no socialism or communism in china it is all capitalist the Chinese government betrayed Mao and socialism they reverted to capitalism.

[cyu]

Socialism in China is similar to democracy in the United States. It is the lipstick on the pig that is used to convince the common resident to support the government. While there are some officials in China who truly want to see socialism, just as there are officials in the US that truly want to see democracy, their desires do not hold sway.

The rest of the government may talk like these idealists talk, but they walk to a different tune.

According to both http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality and http://www.mongabay.com/reference/stats/rankings/2172.html there is more inequality in China than even the United States.

[RedHal]

The popular opinion in China is very much anti-communist (extremely high approval of a nebulous 'capitalism'), partly because they associate communism with their awful capitalist government. Currently the tendency is in direction of a more liberal capitalism and little other changes. There might be a change in favour of 'multi-party democracy' in the future, but this won't change any substance. The Chinese government fiercely keeps class militancy low with force.

What popular opinion? Sounds like middle class opinion. Mao is still very popular, and it's not purely nationalism, but the egalitarian ideals during the Maoist period.

[Tim Cornelis]

What popular opinion? Sounds like middle class opinion. Mao is still very popular, and it's not purely nationalism, but the egalitarian ideals during the Maoist period.

[citation needed]

All I've heard is that the Chongqing model has being gaining some popularity, which is many things but not socialist.

[Gambino]

This came out today in the news:
China promises to give markets 'decisive role' in economy


What more is there to be said about Chinese Socialism?!?