Tea Party Collapsing; Right-Wing Libertarianism Dealt A Blow

[Aleister Granger]

http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-and-right/tea-party-more-unpopular-ever

This is probably a good time to start organizing the Left. If we don't, it might be a while before we get another such chance.

[Ocean Seal]

This is probably a good time to start organizing the Left.
The best time to organize the left is all the time.

[Thirsty Crow]

The best time to organize the left is all the time.
Of course, this is far from the truth.
To illustrate with the example of my own political development, it was only after the massive student struggle that it became possible to "organize the left", with the inflow of fresh blood, new perspectives, and most importantly of new fora and outlets for leftist analysis and politics.

Organizing the left, whatever merit that may possess on its own, is therefore susceptible to prevailing conditions and needs to take those into account, and quite frankly, this approach of yours reminds me of a kind of voluntarism.

[GiantMonkeyMan]

Of course, this is far from the truth.
To illustrate with the example of my own political development, it was only after the massive student struggle that it became possible to "organize the left", with the inflow of fresh blood, new perspectives, and most importantly of new fora and outlets for leftist analysis and politics.

Organizing the left, whatever merit that may possess on its own, is therefore susceptible to prevailing conditions and needs to take those into account, and quite frankly, this approach of yours reminds me of a kind of voluntarism.
There will always be struggles and always be conflict with capital even in periods of relative economic 'harmony'. If you're not engaging in the struggles of the working class you're simply a philosopher interpretting. How successful your attempts will be may vary and you'll have peaks and troughs but we're not fair weather revolutionaries. I don't know why saying 'we should always be organising' is a negative thing.

[Thirsty Crow]

There will always be struggles and always be conflict with capital even in periods of relative economic 'harmony'. If you're not engaging in the struggles of the working class you're simply a philosopher interpretting. How successful your attempts will be may vary and you'll have peaks and troughs but we're not fair weather revolutionaries. I don't know why saying 'we should always be organising' is a negative thing.
In times of significant class passivity and only isolated struggles, it is near impossible for an already shattered left to intervene in any meaningful way.

As I said, it is negative in that it posits a kind of a voluntarist position. No amount of good will and correct politics will enable the left, already cut off from the class, to simply waltz in and conduct their intervention in a successful way. Trust me, it is more probable that such a left will be welcomed by pronounced hostility from the workers, and try to imagine where this leads to in relation to that same left and its self-understanding. The answer, in short, is to boiling elitism and substitutionism.

[Magic Carpets Corp.]

The Tea Party has succesfully launched a coup d'etat against the leadership of the second biggest party in the US(even though they are a minority of said party), and it's somehow collapsing now?

[GiantMonkeyMan]

In times of significant class passivity and only isolated struggles, it is near impossible for an already shattered left to intervene in any meaningful way.

As I said, it is negative in that it posits a kind of a voluntarist position. No amount of good will and correct politics will enable the left, already cut off from the class, to simply waltz in and conduct their intervention in a successful way. Trust me, it is more probable that such a left will be welcomed by pronounced hostility from the workers, and try to imagine where this leads to in relation to that same left and its self-understanding. The answer, in short, is to boiling elitism and substitutionism.
This makes two assumptions and errors, in my opinion. You assume that the left is some sort of weird academic clique devoid of any interaction with the working class (which might be the case for left comms) but the left should be a part of the working class. You also assume that intervening into a dispute comprises of rushing headlong and taking over, demanding the workers follow your lead. That would annoy anyone even in a period of heightened struggle. Sometimes intervention could be as simple as asking those in a dispute if they want some support. That sort of thing creates contacts and friends rather than alienating a portion of the working class.

[Thirsty Crow]

This makes two assumptions and errors, in my opinion.
These aren't assumptions but a summary of the experience of the left here where I live, at the beginning of the 2000s.


You assume that the left is some sort of weird academic clique devoid of any interaction with the working class (which might be the case for left comms) but the left should be a part of the working class.And as I pointed out, when this left is comprised of mostly academics and workers without any foothold in the working class, and when it is practically shattered and tiny, no amount of organizing drives will work.


You also assume that intervening into a dispute comprises of rushing headlong and taking over, demanding the workers follow your lead. That would annoy anyone even in a period of heightened struggle. Sometimes intervention could be as simple as asking those in a dispute if they want some support. That sort of thing creates contacts and friends rather than alienating a portion of the working class.
Well it's your assumption that I assume this. But no, what I did assume based on actual situations is that the organization that is vocally socialist will be marginalized and even met with hostility when it tries to put forward its perspective on the actual struggle and way forward.

All of this is not meant as an indictment on political organizing. It is, however, meant and actually shown as a refutation of the unthinking position that at all times and all conditions it is possible to build the left. It is not.

[Ethics Gradient, Traitor For All Ages]

This article seems over-optimistic. The tea party has always been a minority in the party, and the 'moderate' section has been alienated by them for a while. They're influential because of their financial backing, not because of the appeal of their politics.

[Os Cangaceiros]

You assume that the left is some sort of weird academic clique devoid of any interaction with the working class (which might be the case for left comms) but the left should be a part of the working class.

Key words there being "should be".

[Aleister Granger]

The Tea Party has succesfully launched a coup d'etat against the leadership of the second biggest party in the US(even though they are a minority of said party), and it's somehow collapsing now?

More that their image is collapsing. The general public still hasn't separated the Tea Party from the Republicans, and not only that but you also had Tea Partiers and lolbertarians lashing out against the out of work government workers. There were images of GWs being harassed and mocked for their duty, even though they weren't getting paid. I saw somewhere that lolbertarians were waving confederate flags (not surprising though). And it was the Tea Party-endorsed Ted Cruz that started the whole government shutdown fartacular in the first place, so says mass media (though it was tad bit more complicated than that). The Republican party's been screwed up almost to the point of me wanting to say they're the new Whigs. They're even withdrawing some hope for a presidential victory in 2016, in any form. I'm sure someone will come up, but this is their lowest point as of yet, and there's a chance it could go even lower.

And if the common American now thinking that Republicans are traitorous scum isn't "bad" enough, the Tea Party people are seen as God-crazed psychopaths who will stop at nothing to destroy Obama, even it it means taking America down with him. They were willing to peddle millions of bucks to kill Obamacare... even if that meant the global economy would crash and burn and the US goes the way of Rome. The whole world was holding their breath, and their type was saying "Nothing will happen." Millions will be unemployed, the rich get to laugh at a 30% unemployment rate while getting bailouts left and right, other nations collapse, and a depression begins? "Unlikely! Let's get rid of Obamacare and usher in a new age of free market, conservative principles (built on the ashes of what was once a nation)."
They were saying "Let them eat cake", you see. As long as that Jesus-hating, Muslo-Communist pinko-fascist Orwellian Obamacare rots in Hell, it was all worth it! *Cue Aerosmith and an American Flag*

That sounds like a collapse to me.