Have any of you actually lived in a commie country

[I_HATE_COMMIES]

im just wondering if any of u on the left have actually lived in a commie country. i really don't think that any of you have, becuase you would see how fuck up everything is. Btw if u claim that you have please tell me which country, and if ur just visting, or did you live there for more than 5 years. I personally lived in a commie country for 11 years. i hated it. Capitalism so much better than Socialism. In poland, during commie control, when i was a baby i couldn;t even get more than a half a gallon of milk per week. is that good. NO. or the fact that when i was 10. i was rationed 16 oz. of meet each month. What the rest of u would eat that much in 2 days. So shut up stop complaining about the US. its not perfect, but its a lot better than Socialism, and any commie country. So come on tell me that you have lived in a commie country. Maybe 1 of you have. Maybe

[SonofRage]

A Communist country has never existed.

EDIT: unless you count the Paris Commune and what happened in the Spanish Civil War, both of which didn't last very long.

[The Feral Underclass]

Once again the ignorant reign supreme.

As SonofRage pointed out, communism has never existed in the world ever.

[I_HATE_COMMIES]

all right fine, im sorry if my hate for commies allowed me to use these 2 words like thier inter-changeable, which they almost are. Okie so how many of u have lived in country based on socialism. Thats right most of u have grown up in the US and just got screwed up along the way. If you are truely socialist, then go and live in socialist country. then well see who is complaining about taxes when they take away 45 % of ur paycheck.

ps. y dun u guy try to be orginal instead of all pointing out that there are no commie countries

pps. wait just out of curiosty the right are the evil dictators, who don't allow free speech and freedom of the press, then what are you guys doing.
hmmm free speech as long as no one disagrees with you
funny :o

[Monty Cantsin]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2004, 09:34 AM
then well see who is complaining about taxes when they take away 45 % of ur paycheck.


well in austrialia a CAPITALIST counrty they take up to 49% of your paycheck, maybe we should have some complaints, when the government takes so much but you still dont get free education.

[I_HATE_COMMIES]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2004, 09:34 AM
wait just out of curiosty if the right are the evil dictators, who don't allow free speech and freedom of the press, then what are you guys doing.
hmmm free speech as long as no one disagrees with you
funny


still waiting on an answer on that one..... :huh:

[The Feral Underclass]

Don't ya just love it!

I_HATE_COMMIES


Okie so how many of u have lived in country based on socialism. right most of u have grown up in the US and just got screwed up along the way. If you are truely socialist, then go and live in socialist country.

I am from the UK. Going to live in a "socialist" country is irrelevant to working class struggle. Most of the people on this board are revolutionary socialists and recognize the absurdity of capitalism and are learning or are active in their own countries to change society. Going and living in Cuba would not help the working class in the US or the UK.


well see who is complaining about taxes when they take away 45 % of ur paycheck.

In denmark theyt ake 50% also. What's your point? Do you even have a point? or are you just spouting anti-communist rhetoric because you think you sound clever.


ps. y dun u guy try to be orginal instead of all pointing out that there are no commie countries

Wait a minute...You started this thread, asserting that communism has existed in the world and that we should all go and live in a communist country blah blah blah. You were given a statement of fact. Communism hasnt existed in the world. If you dont want to be answered with the truth dont make wild ignorant assertions.


wait just out of curiosty the right are the evil dictators, who don't allow free speech and freedom of the press, then what are you guys doing.
hmmm free speech as long as no one disagrees with you
funny

Who are you refering too? What is the situation you had in mind when you wrote this? Communism is not about evil dictators. I am in support of oppressing the freedoms of the bouregoisie in a revolutionary situation. Communism is not about being sentimental, it is about liberating the working class. Who gives a fuck about the ruling class?!?

Allowing free speech to whom. To nazis, to capitalists who want to exploit the workers. Yes, we will oppress these people if they disagree with us. Us being the entire working class...the majority...the people who make the world go round.


still waiting on an answer on that one.....

Don't be such a smart ass. People dont answer these questions because they've been answered so many times to as many stupid people such as your self. it's boring having to try and explain something to someone who hasnt got a clue what he's talking about and really has no interest in learning. You people come on this website believing you understand what communism is, what socialism is, but really, you have absolutly no idea. No boday answers you because your embarresing yourself and no one wants to get involved with you. They have better things to do.

I however, love to see you people make fools of yourselves, so by all means continue.

[JonP]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2004, 09:34 AM
ps. y dun u guy try to be orginal instead of all pointing out that there are no commie countries


Because there are none, if a proper communist country did exist you would see how great it would be.

[toastedmonkey]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2004, 09:52 AM



Who gives a fuck about the ruling class - I do - they're still people.

Whats with being so certain, a key part of the fars left is that people will change their behavior under communism and the like. But niether communists or capitalist have any right to make such definate assertions about the working of communism or anarchism.

All you can be sure about is that you as a person object or agree with the oppression of the working class.

If only you capitalist got some new objections


(ah some how I'm in the wrong account sorry im kitten)

[The Feral Underclass]

toastedmonkey


Who gives a fuck about the ruling class - I do - they're still people.

People who start wars, kill people, use and exploit us. I have no compassion for people like George Bush or Tony Blair. These people do not care about anything other than maintaining their control.


a key part of the fars left is that people will change their behavior under communism and the like.

Not the ruling class. People like this think we are scum. They have power and wealth unimaginable to me or you. They will have absolutly no interest in working class struggle, in fact they activly and violently attack it every day. They would rather shoot us or put us in prison than allow the workers to take their power and wealth.


But niether communists or capitalist have any right to make such definate assertions about the working of communism or anarchism.

I dont understand what you mean by this.


All you can be sure about is that you as a person object or agree with the oppression of the working class.

And then what...So you object to it by making the decision to object in your mind or you activly attempt to change society. Capitalism is not a good thing, it's an evil system which oppresses people and exploits them all voer the world. Take a look around you.

Should I see the world make my decision to object and then go about my business. Of course not. Society has to change, it can not continue like this.

[The Feral Underclass]

why are you signed in, in his name....why do you even have his password......

[I_HATE_COMMIES]

I am from the UK. Going to live in a "socialist" country is irrelevant to working class struggle. Most of the people on this board are revolutionary socialists and recognize the absurdity of capitalism and are learning or are active in their own countries to change society. Going and living in Cuba would not help the working class in the US or the UK.

ahh see the point of me telling you to go and live in one of these countries so that you can understand what you are trying to turn your country into. a place where u can not even get a home if do not like socialism. Or a place where if you go against socialsim you disappear. You do not understand what liberties you know have, and how all of those can very easily be lost. How would you like if your kid was told to be exactly like everybody else, not to stand out one bit. I have gone to school and lived in a country based on socialism. thats what its like.



wait just out of curiosty the right are the evil dictators, who don't allow free speech and freedom of the press, then what are you guys doing.
hmmm free speech as long as no one disagrees with you
funny

Who are you refering too? What is the situation you had in mind when you wrote this? Communism is not about evil dictators. I am in support of oppressing the freedoms of the bouregoisie in a revolutionary situation. Communism is not about being sentimental, it is about liberating the working class. Who gives a fuck about the ruling class?!?

hmm i was refering to a little thin in your very own terms of service, and then the same thing that is blatently displayed across the screen when you sign up for a screen name. hmm here is what it says in your terms of service "Right-wing messages will be ignored or deleted in all other forums and the author will be banned."


Allowing free speech to whom. To nazis, to capitalists who want to exploit the workers. Yes, we will oppress these people if they disagree with us. Us being the entire working class...the majority...the people who make the world go round.

i m saying that you should allow free-speech to any one. not just one class. That is why the US and the UK are so great as they are becuase me and you can be haveing this nice little.. chat and niether of US would be hunted down by a goverment who wants to suppress people. if u suppress any people then you are no better than the lowest scum, like hitler, stalin, or mussolini.
just as kitten(toastedmonkey watever) just said

Who gives a fuck about the ruling class - I do - they're still people.

[The Feral Underclass]

You can both be banned for this kitten...you dont have commie club access.

[The Feral Underclass]

ahh see the point of me telling you to go and live in one of these countries so that you can understand what you are trying to turn your country into. a place where u can not even get a home if do not like socialism. Or a place where if you go against socialsim you disappear.

These stages you are refering too are called by marxists, the dictatorship of the proletariat. It is supposed to be a transitional period from capitalism to communism where the workers have control over the state in order to oppress the ruling class. I am an anarchist, and I fundamentally oppose this theory. It has never worked ever and always leads to dictators or some centralised bureaucracy.

These countries, Cuba, Vietnam, China and Russia in its day all attempted to impliment this dictatorship of the proletariat, or socialism if you like, in order to tansfer to communism. It never worked and failed miserable. The attack on free speech is supposed to be an attack on subverssives who are trying to implement capitalism again, which on principle isnt a bad thing, however in these countries the theory of the dictatorship of the proletariat has allowed indeviduals to amass huge amounts of power and use this principle to better their own positions.


You do not understand what liberties you know have, and how all of those can very easily be lost.

What liberties? I have the right to say bad things about my government and leaders etc but i can not change anything. These liberties are just pathetic attempts to disguise what is really going on. I can say I hate the prime minister but what good will it do. So I can vote in five years time and maybe get him out, only to be replaced with someone who is exactly the same. These aren't liberties.

So I can work all my life and maybe buy a house at the end of it. I can buy a satellite dish and sit infront of the TV when im not working...SO i can buy a dvd player or a car, only if I can afford it. This isnt liberty. It's barely an existance.

[I_HATE_COMMIES]

but u can say bad things about ur leaders. thats important. in poland during commie control if u said one bad thing or were suspected of saying one bad thing than u would be sent to siberia, no questions asked.

lets say that you make $30,000 a year, even though that puts you low on the econimic scale of ur country, ur sill in the top 10% of the world. simply by thinking about buying a dvd player put you in the top 15% of the world.

but at least im proud of you that u have brain unlike most on the left and most that r socialist. so i salute u on that one.

ps. wats the voting age in UK 21?

[The Feral Underclass]

hmm i was refering to a little thin in your very own terms of service, and then the same thing that is blatently displayed across the screen when you sign up for a screen name. hmm here is what it says in your terms of service "Right-wing messages will be ignored or deleted in all other forums and the author will be banned."

This message board is for leftists not for right wingers. The purpose of the message board is for left wing debate. We have enough to debate without right wingers infecting the entire board and turning everything into a communist vs capitalist debate. The purpose of OI is for such discussion. This is not a country, it is a left wing message board and in order for us to have productive left wing debate in the other forums we can not have captialists there. I hope you understand. We have no problem with right wingers or capitalists have constructive debate against communism, we encourge it, but in the right forum.


i m saying that you should allow free-speech to any one. not just one class.

But it goes deeper than just allowing people to say they ahjte the government. In a revolutioanry situation we will be trying to liberate the working class from exploitation, from the ruling class. The ruling class will attempt to continue that exploitation. Exploitation is wrong, and should be fought against, with force if necessary.


if u suppress any people then you are no better than the lowest scum, like hitler, stalin, or mussolini.

Stopping the ruling class frome exploiting people is not the same as perpetrating a fascist regime or murdering jews.


just as kitten(toastedmonkey watever) just said

But he is wrong. Those people are our enemy. They will not allow us to liberate ourselves. They would ratther kill us than give us their power and wealth. Power and wealth created by us. If they want to fight then we will defend ourselves and we will stop their agenda with force.


but u can say bad things about ur leaders. thats important.

But what does it actually achieve. Look at it objectivly. Being able to say I hate george bush is irrelevant. What happens if nobody wants george bush anymore, or capitalism. Saying somehting against your government can not change society.


in poland during commie control if u said one bad thing or were suspected of saying one bad thing than u would be sent to siberia, no questions asked.

Poland has never been communist. It was controlled by Stalin, who was a brutal dictater.


lets say that you make $30,000 a year, even though that puts you low on the econimic scale of ur country, ur sill in the top 10% of the world. simply by thinking about buying a dvd player put you in the top 15% of the world.

But what about those people who make the DVD's. They may not even be able to afford one. None of this makes you free. Earning 30 grand does not make society a good place.


but at least im proud of you that u have brain unlike most on the left and most that r socialist. so i salute u on that one.

Thank you.


ps. wats the voting age in UK 21?

Universal suffarage at 18.

[kylieII]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2004, 09:11 AM
im just wondering if any of u on the left have actually lived in a commie country. i really don't think that any of you have, becuase you would see how fuck up everything is. Btw if u claim that you have please tell me which country, and if ur just visting, or did you live there for more than 5 years. I personally lived in a commie country for 11 years. i hated it. Capitalism so much better than Socialism. In poland, during commie control, when i was a baby i couldn;t even get more than a half a gallon of milk per week. is that good. NO. or the fact that when i was 10. i was rationed 16 oz. of meet each month. What the rest of u would eat that much in 2 days. So shut up stop complaining about the US. its not perfect, but its a lot better than Socialism, and any commie country. So come on tell me that you have lived in a commie country. Maybe 1 of you have. Maybe
Even if someone had lived in communism, or a socialist state, that would still only be one perspective of it. Peoples experiences of events will always be different, as we all encounter different situations, act differently, react to things differently, and interpret things differently.
If the majority of people experienced the same kind of thing when living in a certain situation, then it would mean something, but otherwise its irrelevant. It is like deciding who is the most popular politician based on one persons answer.

[Exploited Class]

Well seeing how I have lived in a "Commie Country" maybe one of the more stricter of the bunch from the Warsaw pact.

I can say without a doubt that it is very much different than western civilization. Different not being subjected to quality of statis term. First off, I do know first hand that it was not as bad as you are portraying it and in fact I doubt that you are from Poland. How do I know? Because while in Bulgaria I got first hand experience from people who went through that time period. I lived there for over 8 months. There were only a few times that food was that difficult to get, as you described, and the last of those times, you would have to be around 45 years old to have been around for it.

Food was pretty abundant, now if I listen to western propaganda I might believe some of things you are saying, like for instance, "large bread lines". One of my favorite propaganda of western culture to denounce our neighbors in Soviet Union. Yes they did indeed have large bread lines like they say. I in fact even have pictures of them. Bread lines are like our rush hour in the US, everybody goes at the same time prior to work, that is culture, not starvation. It is culture to have the bread fresh out of the ovens. In fact the way it worked was, wake up at 6:00 AM, get ready, 6:30AM go get food, Father gets fresh bread, mother goes and gets meats, I got the milk both sour and sweet milk because I couldn't drink the sour and my brother would gets fresh vegetables. That is the way they always did it.

So you think people were starving, odd because they had TVs, Radios, Dishwashers, Refrigerators, Washing Machines in their home. They did not however have clothes dryers, they had to use clothes lines for that. All of those products were owned prior to the fall of the soviet empire. So they had refrigerators but not food??? That doesn't even make sense.

The family I lived with for 8 solid months, the mother could not remember having trouble getting food except for when she was a little girl. Oddly enough, talking to my grandparents both of them also remember having a hard time getting food, it was called the great depression.

The country did operate, much better than we were lead to believe by western propaganda. I have been there, I know. True a lot of the things were run down, pretty dirty, but my family had 2 bathrooms in their flat, I didn't even have that in my house in the States.

It wasn't as nice as the US, but I don't believe the US is a measuring stick for quality of life. They had all the medical facilities as we had here and for free. They weren't as nice or as new but they functioned and I got healed because of it. No, they didn't have 52 inch plasma TVs in their front rooms with surround sound stereo, nor did most of them own a car, but luckily they had really awesome public transportation. Public transportation that I have not seen even 1/2 as good as in the US.

The real problem over there was the authoritorian government that was setup and oppressed people. The civil rights that were abused, the inability to participate freely in a democratic procress. But they worked less hours, they didn't work as hard we did here, thier lives don't revolve around work, they have longer vacation times than we did, they could travel and visit all the sites of the country for almost free.

And when you speak about taxation while in Poland, I know you are not from there. The taxation imposed on the countries within the soviet union was nothing like it is in the West. Since it was a controlled government the only reason for taxation of anything was to remove currency from the market. It didn't effect spending power at all like it does here. They are two totally different things. They would increase the taxes but also lower the price of goods, they were directly releated to each other.

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying that the authoritorian government was good, in fact I hate it and everything it stood for, but the lies about the living situation is not correct.

Now if we compared my youth as an American being poor vs. their situation, they were upper middle class in Bulgaria. My mother and I almost froze to death on several occasion living in a shed that was built onto a garage of another family. Single room shed with running water, not always hot and electricity. I had malnutrion problems growing up and on several occasions had to skip going to doctors because we couldn't afford it, unless it was a life and death situation, which in fact happened. because we didn't go to the doctors after I stepped on a nail, I developed an infection called Strep, you may have had strep throat once. Well, since we didn't go to the doctors till the last minute I almost lost my leg because antiobiotics were not getting rid of the infection quick enough. Had we been able to seek proper medical treatment at the time of the accident I would be fine.

Also we didn't have public transportation in the town I grew up in so we couldn't go anywhere or find a job because of a lack of car. It took 2 years to find a job close enough for my mom to start work and walk. My Bulgarian family was horrified at the stories I told them of my health and well being growing up. They could not believe we didn't get free transportation, that I didn't get health treatment when I needed it, that I suffered several times from malnutrition.

[Exploited Class]

I personally lived in a commie country for 11 years.
Well the fall of the wall was 89. That would mean you were born in '78, making you about 24/25. You don't type like a 24/25 year old and you don't type like English is a second language. In fact you use most of the typings that a 14 to 17 year old on the internet would have adopted.

Also the typos you make are not typos usually associated with a person that studies English as a second language.

Most people that use Polish as a first language and english as a second make mistakes that you are not making.

If you are about 24 or 25, tell me, what grade did you begin your Russian Language studies at the public schools in Poland?

what is the diminitive of Table in Russian?

How many different ways are there to say the #1 in russian?

[John Galt]

Why dont you all move to kibbuztim in Israel?

They are truely communist. Everyone works on the farm in some way, and everyone gets what they need

[Invader Zim]

Every time a new cappie joins we always get asked the SAME stupid questions... maybe we should tell them to work it out for them selves in future!

BTW stop feeding the trolls.

[The Feral Underclass]

what do trolls eat?

[Bolshevika]

The members of the ruling class are not human beings, they have no emotions, so they deserve anything they get. I suggest putting them to forced labour for a few years, make them useful and re educate them. If not, then other "measures" will have to be taken.

And "I hate commies" under socialism (which is what I think you mean) there generally isn't any taxes at all, for example the DPRK I do not think there are taxes or atleast not a lot.