Columbian rebels

[Comrade Zeke]

What do you think about Columbia will they becone Communist? Thiere is Communist fighters in Columbia fighting as we speak! :D

[LuZhiming]

The Colombian guerillas are a worthless group of thieves that would be more hated if the Colombian government wasn't even worse. Colombia has been dreadful for too long.

[General A.A.Vlasov]

KA:" I told that many times! FARC - is not communist-guerillas, they are fuckin' narco-terrorists!"

[RedAnarchist]

There's been 40 years of civil war in that country - and its between right-wing idiots, the elected government and the narco-addicts who claim to be left-wing

[Solace]

When a guerilla group fights endlessly without any tangible results, the cause loose it's meaning. The FARC has been fighting for around 38 years. What are the results? The people, caught as hostage between the FARC and the government, are tired. I think that a true revolution is not suppose to take that long.

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

I wouldn&#39;t call the FARC a revolution, but rather a resistance. They aren&#39;t trafficing drugs to buy mansions and sports cars, they are using the funds to buy weapons and overthrow the corrupt right-wing govt. Fighting for 40+ years is a GOOD thing given their situation, most other groups have been destroyed in far less time. I <3 FARC.

[LuZhiming]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2004, 10:31 AM
There&#39;s been 40 years of civil war in that country - and its between right-wing idiots, the elected government and the narco-addicts who claim to be left-wing
40? There have been more than 100. The oldest guerillas are Colombians.

[Y2A]

Originally posted by General [email protected] 22 2004, 10:08 AM
KA:" I told that many times&#33; FARC - is not communist-guerillas, they are fuckin&#39; narco-terrorists&#33;"
Yeah, whenever you don&#39;t agree with them they "are not communists".

[BuyOurEverything]

When you&#39;re trying to maintain a guerilla campaign against the government for an extended period of time, you have limited options for funding. I don&#39;t really understand all the opposition here to the FARC running drugs as most people here aren&#39;t opposed to drug use. Personally, if I buy a bag of cocaine, I&#39;d like to know that the profits are helping to fight a against a corrupt oppressive government as opposed to paying for some drug lords thirteenth Ferrari.

[Solace]

I am not against the FARC. I do not support them with passion either. I just think there is a need for a change. If something does not give successful results, then we must try to find another way.

I just want to point something out. One must not forget the role of the U&#036;A in this conflict. Again, they are present when it comes to fight against the opposition to the oppressive government, whether this opposition is armed or not. After Chilli, Guatemala, Brazil and Nicaragua, we have Colombia. Remember Pastrana’s Plan? He had to get the American agreement. Washington gave a billion &#036;. About 40% of it was used to buy American military equipment and to train soldiers and cops.

The plan was not even good from what I read. In the long run, the Colombian army will be reinforced as well as the American positions in Colombia. Pastrana’s government should not be trusted. The FARC, viewed as a terrorist movement, will not get much support from the international community. Besides, there is a chance of repeating the American scenario. They are on their own.

So, for that last reason, I repeat : The FARC need to change something somewhere.

Excuse, the vague advice; I am no trained guerrillera or revolutionary.

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

What the FARC needs isn&#39;t a fundamental change, but international support. Then maybe their revolution will be successful.

[Solace]

Primo, the FARC is marxist-castrist. Just with this, international support will not be easily gained.

Secundo, the world being what it is, you don&#39;t gain support by killing and kidnapping countless people.

[TC]

The FARC is the only thing stoping the Paramilitary government from imposing Fascism on all of Colombia. They are the most progressive force in the west, they fight for socialism and democracy. The fact that they haven&#39;t taken all fo Colombia yet is not for lack of trying, they will not make a final offensive until they are sure to win, they are not the vietcong who had anouther national armed forces to bail them out.


The fact that any "Communist" would believe the imperialist propaganda about "narco-terrorism" is really sad. It is our job to question Faux news not just accept whatever it says as fact.

[Jesus Sanchez]

As you can tell, I&#39;m all for them.

[el_profe]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2004, 04:03 AM
The FARC is the only thing stoping the Paramilitary government from imposing Fascism on all of Colombia. They are the most progressive force in the west, they fight for socialism and democracy. The fact that they haven&#39;t taken all fo Colombia yet is not for lack of trying, they will not make a final offensive until they are sure to win, they are not the vietcong who had anouther national armed forces to bail them out.


The fact that any "Communist" would believe the imperialist propaganda about "narco-terrorism" is really sad. It is our job to question Faux news not just accept whatever it says as fact.
:o :lol: :lol:
Colombia gov. trying to impose fascism? but the best line is "they fight for socialism and democracy"
oh yes, i bet if they win they would have elections to see who the country chooses as president.

It is narco-terrorism, the narcs and the farc are working together.

[Y2A]

I disagree with both the FARC and the AUC and other paramilitary groups, they are both narco-terrorists and must be stopped at all cause. What the Columbian government must do is distance itself from any and all ties to these paramilitaries, which it has done to a certain degree but I think can still do more.


the narcs and the farc are working together.

Incorrect, the "narcs" are the far-right paramilitaries that are fighting under the cloak of "fighting terrorism" when infact they are narco terrorists themselves. The AUC itself was formed from a former drug cartel. Thus both sides are wrong and both must be eradicated if Columbia is ever to atain a peace.

EDIT: Not to say the FARC are not drug traffikers aswell. Just pointing out that the paramilitaries are doing the same.

[BOZG]

I have about as much respect for them as I have for the IRA, both are terrorist groups who claim to be socialist but are not.



The fact that any "Communist" would believe the imperialist propaganda about "narco-terrorism" is really sad.

You&#39;ll also find that imperialist propaganda calls them Marxists as well. So on that basis we must reject them being Marxists. Just because the media reports it, does not necessarily means its all lies and allegations. You&#39;re as bad as any person who completely trusts the media.



What the FARC needs isn&#39;t a fundamental change, but international support. Then maybe their revolution will be successful

International support for a group of non-revolutionaries does not create a revolution.

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

It is rather pathetic to see the same group of Communists that overwhelmingly supported legalization of drugs to attack a Communist resistance because they traffic in drugs. There is just no winning with you people&#33;

[Solace]

Err, who are you talking to here, bro?

The only members who attacked "a Communist resistance because they traffic in drugs" are restricted or even banned members.

[BOZG]

Where is this communist resistance? I don&#39;t know of them.

[Comrade Zeke]

Guys there are four groups who are oppsosing the goverment right now. There are 2 drug lord groups who are in charge od the cocain trade in Columbia........the other 2 groups are the extreame Communist one and the less Sosialist one. The Communist one for some reason seems to be more deadly....because it caries out more attacks and take hostages. BY the way if they have no help from the outside world how come have they survied this long....Castro could be supporting them somehow. ;)

[Deniz Gezmis]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 24 2004, 08:14 AM
Guys there are four groups who are oppsosing the goverment right now. There are 2 drug lord groups who are in charge od the cocain trade in Columbia........the other 2 groups are the extreame Communist one and the less Sosialist one. The Communist one for some reason seems to be more deadly....because it caries out more attacks and take hostages. BY the way if they have no help from the outside world how come have they survied this long....Castro could be supporting them somehow. ;)
I&#39;ve heard they get some medical aid from Cuban doctors.

[dopediana]

the colombian civil war which, as you mentioned has lasted 40+ years, has become in fact just a round-robin. everyone fights for control of coca fields which supply monetary funding for weapons and ammo and support. everyone fights for control of villages where support can be found and sympathizers with the other side can be milked for information and ratted out. get this month&#39;s issue of NACLA and there&#39;s an article about an AUC assassin which i&#39;ll type up later for you guys when i&#39;m at home. the FARC is just as violent as the AUC, the ELN is only a bit better, and everything is just fucked up. noone can live in peace. if i had to support any of the groups there, it would be the ELN and only to a certain extent because they don&#39;t, for example, automatically kill journalists, use the exact same tactics as the AUC.

one of the problems is that in south america in general and especially places where there has been war for such a long time is that human life is held in such amazingly low regard that it&#39;s hard to accomplish anything.

[Solace]

Zeke

If you were trying to reply to BornOfZapatasGuns, then you failed miserably. Not to mention that you missed the point.

The only groups opposed to the government and worth the name resistance are ELN and FARC-EP.


Castro could be supporting them somehow.

I think that&#39;s just fantasy. Unless that "somehow" is very, very indirect.

[Comrade Zeke]

To Solance lol, well I still heard there was two Communists ones and 2 drugs lords that were all fighting each other and the goverment trying to gain control the country. I just heard that lol :P

[Y2A]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2004, 04:03 AM
The fact that any "Communist" would believe the imperialist propaganda about "narco-terrorism" is really sad. It is our job to question Faux news not just accept whatever it says as fact.
Your the one that&#39;s blinded by propaganda if you think the FARC aren&#39;t drug traffikers. The thing that I find funny is that while you support them, if you ever went into FARC controled territory in Columbia, the FARC or ELN would probably kiddnap you and demand a ransom for your return.

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2004, 11:48 PM
Your the one that&#39;s blinded by propaganda if you think the FARC aren&#39;t drug traffikers. The thing that I find funny is that while you support them, if you ever went into FARC controled territory in Columbia, the FARC or ELN would probably kiddnap you and demand a ransom for your return.
They are traffikers and I don&#39;t care. How the hell would you like them to fund their revolution? Selling FARC scout cookies?

[el_profe]

Originally posted by MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr+Jan 25 2004, 04:44 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr @ Jan 25 2004, 04:44 AM)
[email protected] 24 2004, 11:48 PM
Your the one that&#39;s blinded by propaganda if you think the FARC aren&#39;t drug traffikers. The thing that I find funny is that while you support them, if you ever went into FARC controled territory in Columbia, the FARC or ELN would probably kiddnap you and demand a ransom for your return.
They are traffikers and I don&#39;t care. How the hell would you like them to fund their revolution? Selling FARC scout cookies? [/b]
they also support themselves by kidnappings,murders and stealing. And you support this action also?

[BuyOurEverything]

Your the one that&#39;s blinded by propaganda if you think the FARC aren&#39;t drug traffikers.

Like I said before, I don&#39;t care. I think all drugs should be legalized so I don&#39;t have a problem with selling them.


they also support themselves by kidnappings,murders and stealing. And you support this action also?

Kidnappings - It&#39;s not ideal, but neccessary. It doesn&#39;t do any harm in the end, so I don&#39;t view it as a huge deal
Murder - How is murder profitable?
Stealing - Depends from who.

[BOZG]

How the hell would you like them to fund their revolution?

What revolution?

[dopediana]

Originally posted by el_profe+Jan 25 2004, 05:22 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (el_profe @ Jan 25 2004, 05:22 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2004, 04:44 AM

[email protected] 24 2004, 11:48 PM
Your the one that&#39;s blinded by propaganda if you think the FARC aren&#39;t drug traffikers. The thing that I find funny is that while you support them, if you ever went into FARC controled territory in Columbia, the FARC or ELN would probably kiddnap you and demand a ransom for your return.
They are traffikers and I don&#39;t care. How the hell would you like them to fund their revolution? Selling FARC scout cookies?
they also support themselves by kidnappings,murders and stealing. And you support this action also? [/b]
if they didn&#39;t do it to others, it would be done to them. it&#39;s what is called a "cycle of violence."

[MiDnIgHtMaRaUdEr]

The FARC doesnt just go out randomly shooting kids in playgrounds. They assassinate reactionary politians. People who steal and murder far more then the FARC ever could. I feel a FARC&#39;s killings aren&#39;t murders, but acts of vigilante justice.

[dopediana]

yeah. it&#39;s justice when they&#39;re in a town that supports the AUC and they shoot people who won&#39;t give them information. the FARC is responsible for nearly as many atrocities as the AUC and the colombian military. the FARC and the AUC both fight for control of villages and coca-growing territories. civilians often get in the way of that. and then kablooey.

[Y2A]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2004, 04:24 PM
The FARC doesnt just go out randomly shooting kids in playgrounds. They assassinate reactionary politians. People who steal and murder far more then the FARC ever could. I feel a FARC&#39;s killings aren&#39;t murders, but acts of vigilante justice.
No they don&#39;t you fool, they also kidnap european and american tourists and demand ransoms for there return. A few months back they hit a nightclub in the red light district of Bogata. Your a fool, and while you support FARC if you were ever to actually go to the region, they would consider you an enemy and sell you for ransom.

[BOZG]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2004, 05:32 PM
the FARC is responsible for nearly as many atrocities as the AUC and the colombian military
Actually that&#39;s incorrect. The Columbian states own figures indicate that the AUC and other right wing paramilitaries are responsible for nearly 80% of all atrocities in Columbia.

[dopediana]

Originally posted by Y2A+Jan 25 2004, 04:35 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (Y2A @ Jan 25 2004, 04:35 PM)
[email protected] 25 2004, 04:24 PM
The FARC doesnt just go out randomly shooting kids in playgrounds. They assassinate reactionary politians. People who steal and murder far more then the FARC ever could. I feel a FARC&#39;s killings aren&#39;t murders, but acts of vigilante justice.
No they don&#39;t you fool, they also kidnap european and american tourists and demand ransoms for there return. A few months back they hit a nightclub in the red light district of Bogata. Your a fool, and while you support FARC if you were ever to actually go to the region, they would consider you an enemy and sell you for ransom. [/b]
the ELN is better than the FARC in the sense that they don&#39;t just kill journalists right off the bat. the FARC considers anyone fair play even though journalists are supposed to be protected by law. but noone has played fair in colombia for over 40 years. it&#39;s kill or be killed. i support the FARC&#39;s cause but i think they&#39;ve lost sense of it.

[dopediana]

Originally posted by BornOfZapatasGuns+Jan 25 2004, 04:38 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (BornOfZapatasGuns @ Jan 25 2004, 04:38 PM)
[email protected] 25 2004, 05:32 PM
the FARC is responsible for nearly as many atrocities as the AUC and the colombian military
Actually that&#39;s incorrect. The Columbian states own figures indicate that the AUC and other right wing paramilitaries are responsible for nearly 80% of all atrocities in Columbia. [/b]
ooh, can you link me to that? and for the record, the AUC has way more atrocities documented than the military when really they&#39;re one and the same. the AUC is mainly colombian soldiers hired out in their spare time.

[BOZG]

Here (http://www.teilhard.com/maryknoll/concerns/columbia.html)

That&#39;s one link. I&#39;ve read it more in papers and pamphlets rather than online. That source seems reliable enough, some liberal religious group. Hardly a front for subversion.

[Osman Ghazi]

Who leads FARC and ELN?
As to them selling coke, who cares if they get some rich yankees addicted? Fuck &#39;em. Anyways im pretty sure that if farc won, colombia would be a better place. The problem is not with farc but with the civil war itself. They wouldnt have to kill people if there was no war on. And if you think its possible to win a war without killing people, then there is definately something wrong with you.

[Solace]

Who leads FARC and ELN?

The FARC-EP is led by Varulanda and Riano. They are financed by drugs and ransoms from kidnapping.

The ELN is led by Bautista. Also fianced by ransoms, but by what they also call "tax of war" on some oil companies.

[Comrade Zeke]

So is it even safe to go to Colombia???? :o

[BuyOurEverything]

Also fianced by ransoms, but by what they also call "tax of war" on some oil companies.

The FARC has something like that too.



Bill 002 Concerning Taxation



The Central General Staff of the FARC-EP

Considering that:

1. Although the we are immersed in a process that should lead to democratic peace in Colombia, the state, using the budget, continues strengthening its legal and illegal armed apparatus for spreading terror among the population.

2. As if this were not enough, the government of the US is persisting with its policy of intervention in our country, sponsoring and participating in the internal war through which we are passing. At this time, they call their form of intervention PLAN COLOMBIA, using the pretext of the struggle against the narcotics traffic. It shall have tragic consequences for our homeland.

3. The trans-national corporations continue to loot our natural resources and the labour of our majorities.

4. The struggle the people is carrying on to confront the official aggression of which it is victim on the part of the state, US imperialism and the trans-nationals, requires sufficient funds to guarantee the objectives of the New Colombia.

5. The resources coming from the voluntary contributions many compatriots send to us and those produced by our own investments are insufficient to cover the requirements of the struggle of the FARC-People’s Army.

6. The trans-nationals and the domestic rich continue charging the state in order to increase their aggressions against the people and also to finance the paramilitary death squads.

7. Substantive agreements have not yet been arrived at with the government at the Dialogues Table, and it is evident that in Colombia there are two powers in confrontation for the political leadership of the country.


Resolves to:

Article 1: Collect the TAX FOR PEACE from those persons or corporations whose wealth is greater than &#036;1,000,000.00 US.

Article 2: From this date, those covered by this law must present themselves to meet this obligation. If a second notice has to be given, the sum to be paid shall increase.

Article 3: Those who do not attend to this requirement, shall be detained. Their liberation shall depend upon the payment of the determined sum.

PUBLISH AND COMPLY

Plenum of the Central General Staff FARC-EP

“With Bolivar, for peace and national sovereignty”

Mountains of Colombia, March 2000.

The Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia-People’s Army FARC-EP

International Commission

http://www.farcep.org/pagina_ingles/